deskthority

Mr.Nobody, what type of reaction are you hoping to get here? This sort of nationalist rhetoric is usually nothing but trouble.

China, just like many other countries, has high quality manufacturing, and mediocre manufacturing.

It's true that there is a lot of power in branding, and that quality and process control can get a decent product from anywhere. It's also true that China has relatively lax IP laws that make it easier to produce clones of products.

iPads sell for $500. What do you think the BOM (bill of materials) cost on those things is?

XMIT wrote: ↑Mr.Nobody, what type of reaction are you hoping to get here? This sort of nationalist rhetoric is usually nothing but trouble.

China, just like many other countries, has high quality manufacturing, and mediocre manufacturing.

It's true that there is a lot of power in branding, and that quality and process control can get a decent product from anywhere. It's also true that China has relatively lax IP laws that make it easier to produce clones of products.

iPads sell for $500. What do you think the BOM (bill of materials) cost on those things is?

The tone of the original video puts a lot of unnecessary stress on how junky the gadget is, it's like one who is able to afford a luxurious car deliberately choose to visit a budget car shop and say"Everything here is junk, and I will buy one just to show people how shitty it is," well budget stuff is produced for a good reason, it is to satisfy the need of low-income people, don't they need merchandise? Don't their children need toys? People from developed countries sometimes can be really snobbish, and I believe a verbal bash is a perfect cure for the snobs.


I think all Apple products are overpriced, people keep buying them is due to vanity or a mentality of keeping themselves stay in trend. the BOM of Ipad might be less than $50, the manufacturer(Foxconn I guess) got a crummy cut, the workers in Foxconn are brutally exploited, however, the profits put Apple on the list of the best money-making company of the year. Needless to say that the shareholders of Apple are rather satisfied with this.

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑...well budget stuff is produced for a good reason, it is to satisfy the need of low-income people, don't they need merchandise? Don't their children need toys? People from developed countries sometimes can be really snobbish, and I believe a verbal bash is a perfect cure for the snobs.

I am sure that in most cases, the reason that junky rip-off shit is made is because some businessman wants to make some money; not because he cares about poor kids having access to toys.

@002
Yes, that's why they are called businessmen not philanthropists, but objectively, they still provide the goods that meet some people's need. The pharmaceutical companies don't give a shit about people's health either, they make medicines for money, rather lucrative business because of the exorbitant profits of the medicines, if one has to bombast some greedy businessmen, they are the better targets. the rip-off business is not as lucrative at all.

Probably the only reason the video you posted exists is for the same reason -- he is just some guy posting a video for entertainment and to get views and probably try and get popular + make money.
People like to laugh at craptastic gadgets and it's got nothing to do with China, and everything to do with...craptastic gadgets. China just so happens to make a lot of them because they make a lot of damn near everything.

If one takes the price, the quantity of the order and shipping cost into consideration, a reasonable person will appreciate not laugh at. At this price, others won't even be able to make it happen, that's the reason that it's always Chinese who are taking and doing the job, it's not an accident, only Chinese people are willing to take the trouble to make damn near everything for the scanty profits, including the Kishsaver F62/77 clones.

There are people who will appreciate that item. I would have when I was a kid because my family was poor as frig.
There are people who will laugh at that item. I can laugh at it now because it is crappy.

Lighten up, man. You seem to be on some personal crusade to change the minds of the evil western people. You are wasting your time posting on YouTube comments and frankly, probably wasting it here too.

Thanks pal for being frank, I think, if the OP of the video believes it's worth his time to make a video about it, I think it's worthwhile to me to leave several replies which don't cost as much time and effort as making a video. After all, it's about a Chinese-made product, I think it's better to have some Chinese voices in the feedbacks.Thanks again.

One of the reasons why I chose to not further develop a certain keyboard related product I had in mind
is that obviously some smart Chinese businessman would have immediately stolen the idea
taking advantage of all my development work and then claiming it's "good for the poor".

kbdfr wrote: ↑One of the reasons why I chose to not further develop a certain keyboard related product I had in mind
is that obviously some smart Chinese businessman would have immediately stolen the idea
taking advantage of all my development work and then claiming it's "good for the poor".

Then why the F62/77 project hasn't been stolen by some smart Chinese businessman yet? BTW don't flatter yourself, your work might not be worth stealing.

One thing I admire about Chinese civilization is they are not petty about sharing good ideas. If they discover something that works then they have no problem with copying it so that everybody can benefit from it.

Whereas Western culture promotes the delusion that people are morally entitled to profit from their ideas at the exclusion of everybody else. How is this justified? Maybe because an inventor is a genius, or worked very hard, or invested a lot of money in research.

But this ignores the fact that ideas are cheap and that new ideas are parasitic on the free body of existing ideas and knowledge that humans have accumulated over the centuries. Even the so-called genius individual is a product of their society and education system, which gets no credit.

This selfish culture skews human progress in a perverse direction. It encourages the creation of product and service monopolies which have no benefit to society, whose only function is to enrich the greedy owners. Or using innovation only as a tool to crush the competition.

See for example:

The Wrong Kind of Entrepreneurs Flourish in America

EpiPen CEO hiked prices on two dozen products and got a 671% pay raise

Mylan’s epic EpiPen price hike wasn’t about greed—it’s worse

XMIT wrote: ↑Mr.Nobody, what type of reaction are you hoping to get here? This sort of nationalist rhetoric is usually nothing but trouble.

China, just like many other countries, has high quality manufacturing, and mediocre manufacturing.

It's true that there is a lot of power in branding, and that quality and process control can get a decent product from anywhere. It's also true that China has relatively lax IP laws that make it easier to produce clones of products.

iPads sell for $500. What do you think the BOM (bill of materials) cost on those things is?

I asked him that question in another thread. He prevaricated as well as any politician, and in the end gave no answer, and then insulted me.

The market for cheap products is always there because it gets profits for the appropriated manufacturing cost structures. IP and branding value, either real or artificial, adds too much to the products to be profitable in that market, that is the reason knock off products can fill that market and for the same reason there will always be businesses that are based on them. It is a simple matter of economy of scales and cost, sales and profit equation.

I really do not see why this common fact is suddenly seen as a big discovery.

chuckdee wrote: ↑

XMIT wrote: ↑Mr.Nobody, what type of reaction are you hoping to get here? This sort of nationalist rhetoric is usually nothing but trouble.

China, just like many other countries, has high quality manufacturing, and mediocre manufacturing.

It's true that there is a lot of power in branding, and that quality and process control can get a decent product from anywhere. It's also true that China has relatively lax IP laws that make it easier to produce clones of products.

iPads sell for $500. What do you think the BOM (bill of materials) cost on those things is?

I asked him that question in another thread. He prevaricated as well as any politician, and in the end gave no answer, and then insulted me.

Quote the original post~ and mind you ipad and iphones are not owned by Chinese, they are only manufactured in China taking advantages of the relatively cheap labor here, no matter how high the net profits are, Chinese people don't get fat, so you should ask the greedy businessmen who actually get the benefits of the overpriced Apple products not me. I think I am kind enough to answer them for you, though I don't have the obligation to.

@ideus
Exactly, that's why I smell the real motive behind the fuss like this is not economic but racial or at least snobbish, there are always 5 star luxurious hotels and motels in a city, targeting to different consumer groups, it's like a billionaire visiting a cheap motel and says something like "Whoever stays here is as cheap as the motel itself", what the...


@infodroid
Good point and thanks for the input which reminds me of the Microsoft vs. Netscape case. It's fair for the inventor to enjoy a proprietary privilege for a certain period of time and to a certain extent. However, it can be selfish and evil when the patent thing is used as a tool to benefit oneself only.


And it's true, China has been a copycat for the past 3 decades, in the past 3 decades China has been in the stage of primitive accumulation, some people call it theft and despise Chinese for this, maybe it is despicable, but recall what the westerners did when the Western countries were in the stage of primitive accumulation? Wars, colonies, genocide and loot, IMHO I think a thief is better than a thief, a gangster and a murderer. Yes, many Chinese companies have infringed many property rights of many foreign companies, regard it as a debt repaid in a relatively mild and civilized way.

Primitive accumulation? That's some Marxist shit. Nice. Karl Marx was a genius. Most of his stuff was critiques of capitalism, not communist writings. He had a great eye for the way of things.

vivalarevolución wrote: ↑Primitive accumulation? That's some Marxist shit. Nice. Karl Marx was a genius. Most of his stuff was critiques of capitalism, not communist writings. He had a great eye for the way of things.

Karl Marx was also a jew, but I guess you dare not say "jewish shit" coz U.S. is literally owned by Jewish people, the government, media, Hollywood, you name it.

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑

vivalarevolución wrote: ↑Primitive accumulation? That's some Marxist shit. Nice. Karl Marx was a genius. Most of his stuff was critiques of capitalism, not communist writings. He had a great eye for the way of things.

Karl Marx was also a jew, but I guess you dare not say "jewish shit" coz U.S. is literally owned by Jewish people, the government, media, Hollywood, you name it.

Lol. Somebody always has to bring the Jews into it.

vivalarevolución wrote: ↑

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑

vivalarevolución wrote: ↑Primitive accumulation? That's some Marxist shit. Nice. Karl Marx was a genius. Most of his stuff was critiques of capitalism, not communist writings. He had a great eye for the way of things.

Karl Marx was also a jew, but I guess you dare not say "jewish shit" coz U.S. is literally owned by Jewish people, the government, media, Hollywood, you name it.

Lol. Somebody always has to bring the Jews into it.

Why can't we reference Hitler now and bring this to an abrupt close.

I haven't watched the video, but I get the spirit.

I'm glad there are videos that expose the horrible quality of (mostly Chinese) cheap electronics, especially chargers, things with batteries etc. (stuff that's potentially dangerous) Why? Because most people have no concept of quality in electronics; they think the higher-priced stuff is expensive because of branding or more features at best… and that's sometimes true, but there's a threshold, below which stuff _is_ garbage.

You're using poor people as an argument, but have you heard the saying "I'm too poor to buy cheap things"? Are you familiar with Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness?

And ultimately, the junk harms the environment—in production and later as it turns into e-waste—and consequently harms especially the poor.

I didn't read through all the posts and I didn't watch the video.
But I want to let Nr.Nobody know that in the customized mechanical keyboard world, there are some well respected Chinese products (and not necessarily operated like a Foxconn labor camp), mostly for the MX switches, just to name a few of those:
- EnjoyPBT dyed-sublimation PBT key caps;
- Gateron MX switches;
- Hot Key Project's Double and Triple-shot resin key caps (if you count Hong Kong as China - you should as Hong Kong was and now is again part of China, despite the sovereignty of Qing vs CCP);
- Ducky's products from super thick laser engraved PBT caps to its keyboards with aluminium case (if you count Taiwan as part of China - you should as Taiwan though is a now still technically at a civil-war-stalemate state, the unification of the two lands is just a matter of time and patience, regardless of through or not through some sort of military process to whatever degree).

And please be reassured again that nowadays informed hobbyists of various kinds of products be that keyboards, pens, etc all know that China can "make things happen", i.e. the knowledge and the technology of engineering and manufacturing is there.

@ Menuhin
Thanks man，exactly what I mean. I hope more people could know this and get rid of the bias against Chinese-made Products. Back in the days when Japan was a copy cat and clone-everything maniac, Westerners used to mock and despise Japanese like they do now to Chinese. IMHO, It's an unavoidable stage a developing country has to go through to become a developed country. Gladly, the copy-cat stage of China is drawing to an end.

Chinese person here.

Most Chinese people, like most other people, don't care about where an item is manufactured, only that it is dependable and safe at the very least, and then pleasant and convenient. There is nothing inherently wrong with establishing a competing product that performs the same function as another one. Absent this, all markets will be monopolies.

As for knock-offs, you need to realize that Chinese people aren't idiots. They can tell knockoffs from authentic goods, but sometimes the authentic ones simply don't provide enough value to justify their (sometimes significantly) higher prices. Buying knock-offs is a matter of convenience and pragmatism. When brandnames matter, Chinese people do also care, and vehemently so, about the authenticity of the badge on the item. This is why sales of Louis-Vuitton, Gucci, Prada, Chanel, Bulgari, etc. are also high in China: they do care about brandname — but only sometimes — like the rest of the world.

Accusing China of knock-off products is like accusing the Dutch of misery — it's funny until it isn't.

@Mr.Nobody, please change your input method to use half-width punctuation like ", . ;", instead of full-width ones.

Half-width punctuation, like Latin script, ruins the Chinese and Japanese grid layout :(

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑@ideus
Exactly, that's why I smell the real motive behind the fuss like this is not economic but racial or at least snobbish […]

Mr.Nobody wrote: ↑[…]Karl Marx was also a jew, but I guess you dare not say "jewish shit" coz U.S. is literally owned by Jewish people, the government, media, Hollywood, you name it.

I know I'm a bit late, but wow, that's rich…

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑Half-width punctuation, like Latin script, ruins the Chinese and Japanese grid layout

Actually you can type full-width Latin characters.

ＤＥＳＫＴＨＯＲＩＴＹ

I guess that works for you? I only see proportional characters with ClearType disabled — something is wrong with the font substitution.

Well, I just wanted to post a bunch of Unicode shenanigans, to see whether they work for you, but all I get are SQL errors.

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑I guess that works for you? I only see proportional characters with ClearType disabled — something is wrong with the font substitution.

Meh, I only wanted to say that they exist and are actually encoded; whether your computer supports this character set is another matter entirely.