deskthority

I'm bad introducing stuff so let's go straight into the point. I remember discovering Deskthority like 6 years ago, somewhat middle of 2015, unusually, considering how lazy I am, I consumed the shit out of this place, reading every thread I could, learning as much as I could and after a long time lurking I decided to formally be part of this wonderful community. Year by year, this place kept being amazing, every couple of days we had new threads with new original content like a set of photos of a weird and unknown keyboard, better documentation of something, wild projects being baked, etc, it was like the golden season of your favorite TV show, never losing the touch.
Of course, I'm saying all of this in past for a reason, and that reason is, aside all the recent drama and so, don't you feel like this place is dying at a content level? And not in a fixable way, like if we only got lazy or ran out of ideas, but like if we ran out of things to achieve as a community. We have a controller for everything, we have pretty much all documented, we have people literally printing beamsprings. So, what's next? Like, for real, what's next?
I really love this hobby, not only that but I really love how charming this place is (two or three threads of millennial battle royale will not stain years of kindest group of strangers I've ever knew), but I really feel like we completed the main quest of keyboards. Yes, we still have side quests in our list, like mass producing a 1:1 beamspring module or find X unicorn, yet the factor of grace is no longer there. The only "new" stuff is a procedural-like mass production of MX based "custom" keyboards with the same keycap family in a bunch of different color schemes.
I would love to see your opinions on this subject here.

As part of the problem myself, what I see is a shrinking community. Lots of the core members just aren't around no more. 2015 was indeed the heyday—2013 and 2014 were golden, too—but that was loooooong ago. Some regulars have even died since then: Blaise and Seebart to name just two. More of us yet—hi!—fade away, sometimes coming back, but often not. There's a natural rise and fall of obsession interest most people have in a hobby like this. Sure, you can chase your unicorn keyboard forever, but pretty soon you're going to wind up with a pleasant daily on your desk, so your true need is already met.

So that's just a description of the obvious slowness of this place in recent years. But is it keyboards or is it forums that's really chilling down?

I think you're right to point the finger at the ease of entry for new folk in the hobby. They can buy random to good shit so much easier than those of us dumpster diving in the golden days of old. Back then, arcane knowledge was essential, and the place to get it was slap bang here! But is it access or is it culture? Has the internet moved on from discussions on forums between peers, to consuming vids and consuming products with nary an obligatory Instagram to encapsulate your feedback? Are people just less chatty now? Has it become just another purchase and another product on your desk?

Strange. I'm not a smoker—my eyes cannae bide the stuff!—but I feel a distinct desire to don a silky jacket and puff thoughtfully on a pipe…

Muirium wrote: ↑

20 Sep 2021, 12:06

Seebart

Has there ever been information what happened to him?

Only what happened in your thread. I've no inside info. Just seems to me the most logical explanation for what happened to him and his stuff.

I didn't know about Seebart's unfortunate fate, what a sad end as with Blaise. I guess that the lack of the boys, who were left behind at some point also contributes to the issue.

Lurking and joining this community after the good old days so it seems I have noticed the following:

• Posts on DT for projects that have been in the works for a long time

• Discord taking off as the place to post things rather than forums

• Forums are hard for the so-called "Zoomers" to understand

• People wanting answers now rather than in a couple of days or longer

• Social media taking off for hyping projects rather than forums

I think that these issues are not only a DT issue but rather a forum-based community issue as well.

There is a trend right now of closing forums in favour of Discord "servers", which I think is contra-productive, and downright ignorant of what the different mediums are.
The best, most vibrant communities I've been to and the most rewarding interactions I've had on the Internet have involved both forums and live chat. Done right, they complement each other by being better for different things.

Findecanor wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021, 01:52

There is a trend right now of closing forums in favour of Discord "servers", which I think is contra-productive, and downright ignorant of what the different mediums are.
The best, most vibrant communities I've been to and the most rewarding interactions I've had on the Internet have involved both forums and live chat. Done right, they complement each other by being better for different things.

I agree that they can co-exist, however I do know that a lot of younger people are scared of forums for some reason.

TheInverseKey wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021, 05:10

Findecanor wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021, 01:52

There is a trend right now of closing forums in favour of Discord "servers", which I think is contra-productive, and downright ignorant of what the different mediums are.
The best, most vibrant communities I've been to and the most rewarding interactions I've had on the Internet have involved both forums and live chat. Done right, they complement each other by being better for different things.

I agree that they can co-exist, however I do know that a lot of younger people are scared of forums for some reason.

That's probably true for someone who types on glass with their thumbs and isn't capable of reading or expressing anything more complex than a three or four letter abbreviation. But I wouldn't expect that to be a problem here, considering this is a *keyboard* forum.

I suspect that the recent drop in activity is due to Deskthority being taken over by a corporate assfuck who has zero interest in anything other than making money off of other peoples' work. I really hope we can get things back into the hands of someone who is part of this community before it's too late. Once the good people jump ship a forum has zero value, cash or otherwise; I've seen it happen more than once.

Would bringing new people to the community help or would it cause the opposite?

As a Gen Z myself I have the feeling that a lot of people my age are looking for a niche community where people from different age groups can come together. Also the hunt for vintage boards is something I find very fitting for my generation as they are doing the same in other passions (Card collecting, NFT, etc.).

Didn't someone on here want to start a new YouTube channel that focuses on vintage boards?

Chyros is the one who got me into this hobby and because basically he already reviewed the most exotic things he posts less frequently understandably. (If I understood this correctly)

But maybe if someone starts a new channel (not competing against Chyros, just giving another perspective on things) this would reawaken the interest of outside people.

Again, I don't know if that would destroy the site even more, it's just a thought from someone who got into this hobby via YouTube. I at least know for sure that this sense of community on dt is something I've never felt in a discord channel before.

My impression, from occasionally dropping back in, is that all that’s wrong* with DT these days is there’s just so few active posters compared to the past. It’s gotten quiet in here.

New people would be fair welcome as far as I’m concerned. So long as they aren’t a bunch of dicks.

The DT spirit is still much the same as it always was. We’re just so quiet compared to several years back. And I’m talking way before Webwit handed over the keys. DT looked a bit sleepy to me back in 2019, too.

*The other, hidden problem is the lack of server software updates Matteo described. Eventually that’ll jump up and bite all our heads off. So… not great. And who is paying the monthly server bills anyway? How long will that last?

Muirium wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021, 09:59

My impression, from occasionally dropping back in, is that all that’s wrong* with DT these days is there’s just so few active posters compared to the past. It’s gotten quiet in here.

I noticed this as well. I just assumed some users lost interest or were taking a break. My other theory is that maybe a lot more is happening on various fragmented Discord chats.

Discord is great for bullshitting about keyboards but holy shit. In one of my servers they've been trying to guide a guy through a project for DAYS that would be easily solved by a simple forum walkthrough. Discord is also ASS to search for historical information... like if someone else wanted to go back and follow the project it would be hell. Forum is very necessary for preserving and searching information.

JP! wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021, 15:47

Muirium wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021, 09:59

My impression, from occasionally dropping back in, is that all that’s wrong* with DT these days is there’s just so few active posters compared to the past. It’s gotten quiet in here.

I noticed this as well. I just assumed some users lost interest or were taking a break. My other theory is that maybe a lot more is happening on various fragmented Discord chats.

I for one do read on a daily basis, but have not much to contribute as everything seems to be either Model M/F or funky stuff.
But of course I do post when appropriate

It’s good to have a Tipro evangelist on the crew- I would have never known about them otherwise.

raoulduke-esq wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021, 15:54

… Forum is very necessary for preserving and searching information.

I fully agree. Yet part of the problem is the culture of information acquisition. In our company I notice the yougsters not taking the time to search, read and digest. Rather they interupt to ask the simplest of questions.

andreas wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021, 16:42

I fully agree. Yet part of the problem is the culture of information acquisition. In our company I notice the yougsters not taking the time to search, read and digest. Rather they interupt to ask the simplest of questions.

I'm noticing that in the Discord a lot. Zoomer is the "let me google that for you" generation. One of my friends is a language teacher in a middle school. Pupils have more information available at their fingertips than any other generation before them, yet they think the internet is just for videos, games, and porn. Actual student: "Mr. X, I wish there was a way to find out what these Latin words mean!"

I think the issue is a combination of what TheInverseKey and Polecat said.

* Discord is now a thing that people use. The next generation entering the hobby is going to be comfortable with it and thus need convincing of the merits of forums since they weren't around in the earlier days of the internet to experience them in their prime time. Whilst the pro-forum comments here indeed have merit, oversimplifying and insulting an entire generation on said forum and making it look like a less welcoming place is not how you bring those points across in my opinion. That said, I can attest to how annoying the whole "not taking the time to search, read and digest. Rather they interupt to ask the simplest of questions" is as I'm in the Discord raoulduke-esq speaks of. But rest assured not all Gen Z are like this.

* DT lacks moderation right now. With all the spam posts 'chilling' around, this is painfully obvious.

* Speaking as a shy and nervous person myself IRL, I can say that the prospect of joining a community known for oldtimers could be a big deal for some.

* Not related to this thread at all, but I'm sure some would appreciate me saying - fix the damn wiki editor!

Well, that's my take. In regards to resolutions to these, I'm not sure I have faith that moderation will be taken care of due to absentee owners. But if it somehow was 'fixed' and the owners wanted to be serious about growing membership and establishing clearly what the forum is all about and why it's good, I think two things would go a long way (but still only tip of the iceberg):

1. Establish a set pipeline between wiki-forum-Discord. Make it clear that the wiki stores long term info that should be the first point of call for looking into something, then the forum is used for discussing and researching new info and projects, and Discord is for trivial queries that could be answered in a few seconds or being a "Keyboardgram". Enforce this with moderation.

2. For new prospective members, add "Getting Started" (for new users) or "Thinking of joining?" (for visitors not logged in) pages of some sort to the grey nav bar. Something that explains the above points, expectations, and what everything is on the forum. It would probably take just one afternoon to write and it could go a long way to reassuring new users that sticking around is worth it.

PlacaFromHell wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021, 01:05

I didn't know about Seebart's unfortunate fate, what a sad end as with Blaise. I guess that the lack of the boys, who were left behind at some point also contributes to the issue.

His 'unfortunate fate' meaning?
I thought I had talked to him very recently, turns out that 'recently' to me is January 2018. I still have a free NIB Microsoft IMO mouse to send him which he was pretty stoked about.

wobbled wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021, 21:11

His 'unfortunate fate' meaning?
I thought I had talked to him very recently, turns out that 'recently' to me is January 2018. I still have a free NIB Microsoft IMO mouse to send him which he was pretty stoked about.

Same I was supposed to send him a working IBM 5140.

I despise Discord and Reddit. I will remain here even if I am the only one doing projects.
I am Gen Z, but I prefer using decentralized forms and websites rather than sell my soul to a mega-corporation.
It really baffles me about how many times Discord has been exposed for doing nasty stuff, and people keep on using it. Very cult-like and shows a disturbing future for my generation.
I will also post videos about my keyboards on video sharing sites and hopefully rope some more people in to coming to Deskthority.

Another problem about mechanical keyboards is that it as a "hobby" has become boring and weird. Most custom keyboards are boring and overpriced.

I was very surprised when only 2 other people on the entire internet have converted a rubber dome to mechanical.There should be more unique projects like that rather than people obsessing over "thock" and other dumb stuff like that.

What got me into mechanical keyboards was the Chyrosran22 custom Wyse video.

wobbled wrote: ↑

21 Sep 2021, 21:11

His 'unfortunate fate' meaning?

What I understood is he's most probably dead, not just away as pretty much every member who disappeared.

SK-8K wrote: ↑

22 Sep 2021, 01:25

I was very surprised when only 2 other people on the entire internet have converted a rubber dome to mechanical.There should be more unique projects like that rather than people obsessing over "thock" and other dumb stuff like that.

I converted a foam-and-foil (Franklin) to mechanical, does that count?

A lot of forums on other subjects have moved to facebook and the like, especially after Yahoo shut down their groups a couple years back. I'm not on facebook, so I have no idea if there are keyboard groups there. Nor am I on Discord or Geekhack or anyplace else. I don't even know what gen I am, but somewhere between Baby Boomer and Gen X if I had to guess. I hope that isn't something we're expected to specify now, like gender and pronouns? I don't have time for all that nonsense. I usually just ignore the stuff that isn't about keyboards, but "DT...dying" would be a serious loss and I don't want to see that happen.

I found DT originally when deciding whether to save a yellowed KB-101A with blue Alps that I found in my storage. I've met some nice folks here, young and old, and I would truly hate to see it go down the tubes. We definitely need to welcome new people and encourage participation at all levels. Again that requires good people who are willing to help, and hopefully all the recent negativity hasn't driven them away. Or kept new people from joining in. But I have to admit I'm less inclined to post anything here now, knowing the new owner has no interest other than monetizing the site.

Live by the internet, die by the internet. We're a little boat, and it is the sea.

I for one can't stand group instant message threads. They're jumbled up nonsense full of wise cracks and purposeful dumb; I've plenty enough of all that going on inside me already!

Were forums in general really in such a golden age early last decade? I dabbled in a few going back to the 1990s but only this place felt like home. It had that special something. And still does, though with much patience now!

Websites, blogs, wikis, and discussion forums are great for capturing, organizing and publishing knowledge.

These long-tail Internet sources are relatively persistent and can be linked and used for references and citations where one can understand and appreciate the intellectual honesty and context of the material and the author.

IRC and other text and voice chat are fine for real-time discussions and sharing pics and memes (and getting a quick thumbs up).. but these chat-based platforms are much more ethereal and temporary and thus are difficult to archive and refer to as authoritative sources.

I don't think Deskthority will die (unless of course abandoned by the owner). Even if the forum quietens down to near no activity it will always serve as a knowledge base.
How many times have we all googled something keyboard related and found ourselves back at deskthority? I have to say it's a lot more common than ending up on reddit or even geekhack, the attention to detail in both forum posts and the wiki here is unmatched.

Who would pay to keep the archive online when there is no sufficiently active user base, though? The internet rots because, unlike libraries of old, servers need fed forever.

Muirium wrote: ↑

22 Sep 2021, 19:29

Who would pay to keep the archive online when there is no sufficiently active user base, though? The internet rots because, unlike libraries of old, servers need fed forever.

Places like Wikipedia operate solely on donations, though I don't think we'd ever end up in the situation where we didn't have enough users to support the upkeep of dt.

Wikipedia's frequent fund raisers are just the start of it. Aren't they mostly funded by institutional cash from Google and the like, for use in search? I don't see us ever being so mainstream.