deskthority

There happens a lot of stuff in the world that the media doesnt show...

I am just curious who in this forum is interested in this stuff and who keeps sleeping and who doesnt give a fuck.

I wonder what this conspiracy group named Bilderberg is about and what they discuss in their annually meatings. They met a few days ago in England - in a hotel. It was guarded by fences and police.


What is your opinion about:
Them?
the USA/Obama?
About the EU and the €? Brüssel? About turkey? Syria/Assad vs the rebels? Iran? Israel? Germany?

Who still believes the bullshit about the official story of 9/11?

I am very interested in these stuffs since I stopped watching TV. Sometimes I keep an eye on the Media and its bullshit though. Politics and history havent interested me before.

Who can show me more of REAL alternative media sources? What are your information sources?

As you are German one of the best sources of interesting stories of all kinds is Fefes Blog: http://blog.fefe.de

And if you don't like the style try one of those:
http://blog.fefe.de/?css=wikipedia.css
http://blog.fefe.de/?css=bild.css
http://blog.fefe.de/?css=ascii.css
Full list of styles:

Thank you, I'll have a closer look. It is hard to read because the lack of some layout : )

I check these sites daily:

http://alles-schallundrauch.blogspot.de/
http://terraherz.at
http://info.kopp-verlag.de/index.html
http://mmnews.de/

and Spiegel-Online and theguardian, mostly because of comparisons of visions and because of the user comments.

Edit: Ah ok, now it is more readable : )

A good friend of mine is into the Bilderberg conspiracy pretty heavy. Personally, with the media nowdays and personal agendas and individual personalities factored in I am of the belief tha large scale conspiricies and cover ups are almost impossible, especially on a world wide scale. People talk and the more involved make it hard to believe it could be kept secret.

John

t!ng wrote:[…] this conspiracy group named Bilderberg […]
[…] the bullshit about the official story of 9/11 […]

Well, you seem to have made your mind already.

Politics and history havent interested me before. […]

They obviously still don't. What you're after is "the story behind".

Yes I have made my mind already. But I am still open for convincing! Of course the story behind is the more interesting part!

That reminds me... kbdfr what is your opinion on Bilderberg?

t!ng wrote:[…] Of course the story behind is the more interesting part!

Well, then…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... y_theories
Have fun.

I know that debunking entry on wikipedia. Not convincing.

I believe that most of these theories try to find simple explanations for things that aren't simple, like big conspiracies by a few people. I think the truth is different, much more complicated, and involves less evil and more dumbness.

I also think that it will be destructive to our western societies that so many people today don't read newpapers (or news sites) or watch TV any more, but think that it is enough to let bloggers and twitterers think for them and believe what's hot on Twitter or even facebook.

So no, I don't think that the Bilderberg group is up to more than you'd expect any group of rich people to be up to. Network, play golf, make even more money ... things like that.

t!ng wrote:That reminds me... kbdfr what is your opinion on Bilderberg?

Do I have to have an opinion?
Of course I don't expect the rich and mighty to advocate my interests.
But that doesn't mean I expect them to try to take over the world.

No you dont have to have an opinion... you also could say I dont give a **** : D

Taking over the world is far fetched. I am just curious why are they meeting in private and what are they talking about? Why those candidates? 140 "mighty" people from all over the globe meeting in one place.

In my opinion curiosity is very important. Ask whenever and whatever you can to increase your own wisdom.
Someone once said: "Explore the truth before you decide or judge"
And to do so one has to be curious...

Curiosity, yes. But conspiracies always involve mediated curiosity. You have to trust whatever medium is telling you the story, whether it's bloggers writing under pseudonyms or the loudmouth on TV. Good narratives tend to spread around, as everyone borrows the bits they like, so seeing recurring patterns distributed over a large number of sources is no indication something has truth to it. It is merely "truthy".

I'm with you on giving up TV though.

The last thing I watched was Obama's inauguration in January 2009. I'd been too into following this political story and that, and wanted him to become president since 2004. Seeing him achieve it seemed like a good place to end my, by then, unhealthy live-feed. He's disappointed me since, of course. But nothing like as badly as if I was following the day-in day-out nonsense, through the press and TV's mediated opinionisers. It's so much easier to take bad news once, instead of a thousand daily repeats!

Events happen. Patterns appear and disappear. And, truly, none of us who isn't playing a rôle in this stuff ourselves is any the wiser. I get the impression, more and more over the years, that none of them have much of a clue, either. History is chaos, and we chase it with narcissism and greed.

A very wise and interesting statement, thank you.

I wish they would meet up with Obama outside of the city, so there is no traffic jam!

7bit wrote:I wish they would meet up with Obama outside of the city, so there is no traffic jam!

If I were plotting the future of the world, and Yalta was already booked, I'd do it out on an island like Diego Garcia instead of in front of all the plebs. Who needs them? Why even tip them off that talk is happening?

I remember the "CHOGM" here in Edinburgh back when Tony Blair was still the height of fashion, and it completely wrecked all forms of movement across the entire town. All street bins were sealed, so there was trash billowing around everywhere, and every day my bus was going through a different, ever-longer, diversion. "That's it! I am anti Commonwealth!" I scowled, then saw Nelson Mandela rushed in a limo past my window.

Naturally, I blame it all on Prince Philip for his title being a pointer to this otherwise innocent town. Or Robert Mugabe, who always knew how to play those events. Or maybe Bono.

'Bilderberg' is not a conspiracy-'theory' !
There is nothing 'theoretical' about it, they DO meet -
To discuss their golf-handicap !!

Prince Philip ?
Isn't he 'a kraut' ??

The biggest 'conspiracy-theory' is 'Democracy' !
Does anyone seriously believe 'We, The Plebs' , get to elect our own oppressors ??

I still remember how Maggie got a comfortable absolute majority in Parliament,
with less than half the vote !
( I could mention another 'democratically elected' infamous 'leader' - But won't ! )

History is chaos..

No it isn't, 'political things' don't happen just all by themselves,
they happen because 'somebody' wants them to happen !

In politics, nothing happens by accident.
If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.
Franklin D. Roosevelt

I am concerned but not much in the know about those rumoured secret organisations. There are worldwide conspiracies that wreck the world all right, but some are not so hidden - they are there out in the open for all to see, but you have to connect the dots yourself. Look at what IMF and the World Bank had done in wrecking the Asian economy back in the late '90s for the benefit of US banks. Look at who serve and have served as advisers and secretaries in the US government and what else they have been involved with.

Whenever the invasion of Iraq comes up in a discussion, I try to educate people about the PNAC (Project for New American Century). It was a political conspiracy/lobbyist group that has been out in the open all the time but which media has failed to pick up. It's official agenda included US invasions of Iraq and Iran, install puppet governments and take their oil. They lobbied against Clinton during the '90s. Prominent members of the organisation later became top members of the Bush administration, including the vice president, minister of defence, etc. Practically the only person of the Bush government who wasn't also a member of PNAC was George W Bush himself. It is supposed to have dissolved in the last years of the Bush's presidency, but in the day they had a public website where their agenda and names of prominent members were available. You can still find a lot of info if you just google for it. I find it really weird that journalists have not talked more about PNAC. Imagine what would have happened if Michael Moore would have focused on PNAC in "Fahrenheit 9/11" instead of being a jerk.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/Rebui ... fenses.pdf

Also, PNAC'ers Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld where already active during the Nixon/Ford administration .
Nixon, he's the guy who didn't fancy running around naked with all the fags in the Bohemian Grove !

PS :
I always thought his name was spelled 'Tory Blair' ??

I don't doubt that people try to control events. Don't we all, in our own lives? But I do doubt they are any good at it.

A great example of bungled conspiracy in Britain (and there are many) was the elephant's ballet of a political buildup to invade Iraq. Blair got everything wrong, had grotesque allies in Bush and the rest that couldn't help him with his own voters, and wound up completely shafted. The fact we even got as far as going to war is testament to our incompetent politicians and corrupt legal process.

A better conspiracy would have Blair still firmly in charge (enough people did fundamentally like him, without Iraq) and would have irradicated the Sunni population with massive strikes aimed purely at tens of millions of fatalities, to remove our subsequent total humiliation in trying to run the place. A true conspiracy would lay the land are, before we went in for "humanitarian" reasons, without firing a bullet. And the price of oil would be at an all time low. Triumph!

The Empire was better at this stuff. And I don't mean Star Wars. We used famines in India and opium in China to extract our ruthless goals. Why not today? We have the munitions.

But we do not have the control.

Of course 'you' don't have the control any more, you failed to crush the insurgency known as
'The American Revolution' !
The 'New' Empire still uses dope to achieve it's goals .
When Taleban was in charge in Afpakistan, opium-production was reduced some 80% !

Remember 'Iran-Contra' ? Coke for weapons for hostages ??

I mean "we" as in the scheming western powers so beloved of these theories. The Americans control us, remember. Or us them, I forget which.

You voted Obama after he clearly sold the vp to Biden, who is a puppet of the copyright industry, bought to say things like "copyright violators should go to jail". Biden proceeded, policy which caused Schwartz to commit suicide, forcing New Zealand to commit an illegal arrest, etc. etc. You voted for that. Don't say you didn't know, you did, and looked the other way. You also voted for a fascist who bombs innocent people, holds them without trial, shits on human rights, people's rights, people's privacy. Then I think you should STFU now, we're gonna learn nothing from you about Bilderberg. Next time, you will again vote for a psychopath, and probably cheer him on on Reddit. Otherwise, you fear, the wrong lizard will get in.

I'm Scottish. I get no vote in US elections.

Which is quite refreshing, really, as in all the UK elections I've ever voted in (every one that I've been old enough to qualify) my single vote's been wasted. Oh, except the last one. But what happens? The Liberal Democrats (who I've voted against forever) lose my seat but go into coalition with the Tories and so win the election any case. Fantastic!

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

At least the Liberals are permanently destroyed in Scotland now. Margaret Thatcher just doesn't wash off, up here. Our own local Tories are treated like they're the BNP. And so are UKIP, oddly enough.

But yes, Biden is indeed a tosser. My first Obama disappointment. Far from the last.

I think the problem (as always) is the lack of alternatives. The candidates against Obama where even worse choices.

We should abandon democratically voted dictators and practice direct democracy.

Yea right. These folks wish they were bright enough to control world events. They like to create the appearance of secrecy to massage their own egos and keep the media guessing. Positions of power do not equate with great scheming or intelligence. For example, my state governor has aspirations to run for president. He could get there. But I can tell by what this clown says and writes that he is not quick of wit. He doesnt have the mental capacity to devise or even understand a clever world domination scheme. Many politicians are similar.

The world is much too dispersed and varied for any small group of people to control these days. It all strikes me a giant ball of chaos, and we attempt to attach labels to certain events that "changed" the world. But the day-to-day reality of most of the world is the same regardless of some conspiracy theory meeting. I don't concern myself with them because there are immediate things and people in my life and community that need attention, and I won't waste my time on a small gathering of seemingly important people.

7bit wrote:I think the problem (as always) is the lack of alternatives. The candidates against Obama where even worse choices.

We should abandon democratically voted dictators and practice direct democracy.

I used to think that too, when I was a libertarian minded youngster. How about daily online referendums on vital issues etc.? Let the people choose how involved they get in their government by just how much effort they're willing to take.

But then I met more political activists, and got the horrible sensation that the people who are most passionate about issues are the two extremes. So what we'd likely get is zero participation from moderates on most causes, and vicious battles between lunatics at any given moment.

Pretty much what we have now, oddly enough. But without the convenient celebrities to campaign against, throw projectiles at and receive foreign dictators etc.

So in short: now I've no great idea.

prdlm2009 wrote:Yea right. These folks wish they were bright enough to control world events. They like to create the appearance of secrecy to massage their own egos and keep the media guessing. Positions of power do not equate with great scheming or intelligence. For example, my state governor has aspirations to run for president. He could get there. But I can tell by what this clown says and writes that he is not quick of wit. He doesnt have the mental capacity to devise or even understand a clever world domination scheme. Many politicians are similar.

The world is much too dispersed and varied for any small group of people to control these days. It all strikes me a giant ball of chaos, and we attempt to attach labels to certain events that "changed" the world. But the day-to-day reality of most of the world is the same regardless of some conspiracy theory meeting. I don't concern myself with them because there are immediate things and people in my life and community that need attention, and I won't waste my time on a small gathering of seemingly important people.

Right, that's it, you won my vote!

7bit wrote:I think the problem (as always) is the lack of alternatives. The candidates against Obama where even worse choices.

We should abandon democratically voted dictators and practice direct democracy.

I used to believe in direct democracy as well, but I have met far too many humans incapable of managing their own affairs and making good personal decisions. How can I expect them to make good choices on matters impacting millions of people?

But the alternatives to direct democracy are not too favorable either. America's representative democracy is a total sham.

Towns in the northeastern USA have a tradition of direct democracy. They hold regular town meetings in which anyone can participate. No town council or mayor. Decisions are made with an opportunity for everybody to participate. Or at least I think that's how it works. Not very efficient but I guess it works. I would have to talk with my Northeastern friends to learn more about this process.

Muirium wrote:

prdlm2009 wrote:Yea right. These folks wish they were bright enough to control world events. They like to create the appearance of secrecy to massage their own egos and keep the media guessing. Positions of power do not equate with great scheming or intelligence. For example, my state governor has aspirations to run for president. He could get there. But I can tell by what this clown says and writes that he is not quick of wit. He doesnt have the mental capacity to devise or even understand a clever world domination scheme. Many politicians are similar.

The world is much too dispersed and varied for any small group of people to control these days. It all strikes me a giant ball of chaos, and we attempt to attach labels to certain events that "changed" the world. But the day-to-day reality of most of the world is the same regardless of some conspiracy theory meeting. I don't concern myself with them because there are immediate things and people in my life and community that need attention, and I won't waste my time on a small gathering of seemingly important people.

Right, that's it, you won my vote!

Actually I have plans to run for political office as an independent at the state level if I can get out of my government job (government employees cannot run for office). My campaign would focus on ridiculous, satirical proposals, similar to what Stephan Colbert does. Basically, I have no chance of getting elected.

Also, on my earlier points, politicians are too concerned with polishing their image and tending to their ego to pay much attention to controlling us. They are so concerned with popularity and fundraising that if we just didn't vote for the parties here in America, we could totally make them do what we want. But this would require peoe to think for themselves rather than just take what is given to them.

The gay marriage issue comes to mind. The tide is turning in favor of gay marriage. Now Republicans all of a sudden are having epiphanies about their former views. What a shock.

Also we should raise the voting age to 25. I trust adults, even with all their faults, more than teens and college students. The first few years of adulthood are a wonderful learning experience about how the world really works.