Identifying an IBM keyboard

[Muirium]

Indeed, dispensing with the Teensy makes the converter positively tiny:



Takes more chops than I've got to work one of those right inside a socket enclosure. Nice job if they've pulled it off.

[quantalume]

Actually, I suspect he's built the converter into the USB end of the cable, since he also offers converters for XT/AT, PS/2 and terminal (RJ-45) keyboards:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281476427201

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281476431381

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301365445104

[komodo]

So other than the keycaps, is anything else compatible between the model F and model M? the casing or anything like that?

[quantalume]

So other than the keycaps, is anything else compatible between the model F and model M? the casing or anything like that?

No, not really. The springs are somewhat interchangeable, although I believe there are subtle differences.

[andrewjoy]

the cases on the very early model m 122 can be used with an F but not the one you have.

I dunno about the springs i have never tried it but i would think the model m springs would be stiffer.

Model ms are indeed a good source of caps but the model f caps especially the xt and to some extent at are far superior to that of the model m.

If you can get a cheap set of XT caps i would highly recommend it .

[komodo]

Well I can only wait and hope that the keyboard is in good condition under the grime! I wasn't expecting a Model F and I think its very unlikely I'll be able to find keycaps for it, they're so hard to find. There's literally no IBM model Fs on UK ebay at the moment.

By the way i would like to thank you all for your help! I've come into this missing a couple of bits of key information and you've been really helpful.

These keyboards will be an "upgrade" of sorts for me, currently I'm using a Dell AT102W with complicated black alps, which I bought a couple of years ago when i started going through a rubber dome keyboard every 2 months. As far as i can tell buckling spring requires the same amount of force, which is good for avoiding typos, while giving better feedback and typing experience.

How many model Fs were made vs model Ms? I know theyre older and therefore rarer but I wondered how big of a "pool" they came out of in the first place.

[Muirium]

The only difference between M & F caps is whether the mods are "high hat", which is entirely a matter of taste. Model M caps are excellent on a Model F:



Like the Kishsaver, your Model F has a smart and forward thinking layout, so it should be an easy task. Those black blanks are new caps, straight from Unicomp: who still manufacture Model Ms today.

Speaking of which: my guess is that Model Ms are on the order of 100x as prevalent as Fs. They were made for a much longer period (with a trickle from Unicomp even now!) at higher volumes as PCs really took off, and being younger and more compatible (PS/2 instead of weird old school connections) more of them are likely to have escaped the trash.

[seebart]

and I thought this could be the place to help me identify an IBM keyboard I bought the other day.

not so sure actually... I´ll have to get mine up from the basement.

Looks just like this though:

http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/ibm_6110344.html

mine looks very similar:

IMGP6722.JPG (995.57 KiB) Viewed 7231 times

[komodo]

So it's a model M then?

[seebart]

So it's a model M then?

no I just changed my mind! I´ll have to check.I have not used mine at all.

The way I ID these is not by the label but the feel of the switch.

Buckling spring over capacitive contact (F) feels quite differrent to Buckling Spring over Membrane (M) !

[komodo]

Ah right ok, well when it arrives I'll open it and see. What I'm worried about now is being sent the wrong one or something!

[seebart]

What I'm worried about now is being sent the wrong one or something

that won´t happen because there is nothing that looks exactly like that in my opinion. The closest would be this:

http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/ibm_1397000.html

but that´s a Model M for sure.The IBM label is on the left and looks different.

[quantalume]

Komodo, the board you bought with the metal case bottom is most certainly a Model F. All of the 122-key Model Ms had a plastic bottom. In fact, I've never seen a Model M of any sort with a metal bottom, except, oddly, this NIB Bigfoot which is now listed on eBay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/251690785334

[seebart]

except, oddly, this NIB Bigfoot which is now listed on eBay.

that is interesting. Those IBM 3104 Display Terminals in my picture have a plastic bottom,but that´s a different keyboard. I will be curious to see the final price on that NIB bigfoot!

[komodo]

So these bigfoot boards, do they have any electronics in those big borders or are they just for comfort or ergonomics or to match existing moulds that IBM already had? It just seems such an unlikely shape for an overall design.

[quantalume]

Bigfoot actually has the least electronics of any IBM board, ironically. It's all just wasted space.

[komodo]

That seems a really weird design then. Why does it have less electronics? I read somewhere that they didn't have a full controller or something, it wasn't explained well though!

[quantalume]

I have no idea why they designed it the way they did. All of the intelligence was built into the terminal to which the keyboard attached. The only thing inside the keyboard is a multiplexer (so fewer wires would be needed, presumably) and IBM's signature capsense module. It's just as well from our perspective, since it makes it easier to interface to a DIY controller.

[seebart]

I have no idea why they designed it the way they did.

ergonomics?

[komodo]

is it actually more ergonomic though? and if so, why didn't more keyboards come with that big border?

[komodo]

The keyboards have arrived! unfortunately the model F has been damaged during transport, dfespite being wrapped in bubble wrap and with polystyrene in the box

[quantalume]

That's too bad. What has been damaged? Was it shipped entirely within the UK?

[komodo]

ive begun disassembly, here is the damage and the the inside of the top plastic cover

damage

IMG_0787[1].jpg (810.32 KiB) Viewed 7092 times

corner

IMG_0786[1].jpg (539.15 KiB) Viewed 7092 times

internal date

IMG_0790.JPG (918.11 KiB) Viewed 7092 times

inside 1

IMG_0797.JPG (757.07 KiB) Viewed 7092 times

inside 2

IMG_0798.JPG (804.38 KiB) Viewed 7092 times

[komodo]

yes shipped just within the UK. Its a bit of a shame, i know it can be repaired but ah well

[komodo]

By the way, how should the jumper switches be set on the bottom of the keyboard?

[quantalume]

It's unfortunate when something like this survives for 30 years only to get damaged on the last leg of its journey. I'll keep an eye out for a replacement. The jumper switches shouldn't matter. I removed mine entirely.

[komodo]

ill probably just leave them disconnected internally then. It looks to me like the foam mat has had its day, but its good enough for now, so next step is to see if the electronics work by making the soarers converter. I now have to puzzle out the instructions for that! More photos below.

Dirt/dust

IMG_0801.JPG (552.84 KiB) Viewed 7080 times

cleaned maintenance instructions

IMG_0803.JPG (739.02 KiB) Viewed 7080 times

controller

IMG_0804.JPG (828 KiB) Viewed 7080 times

rear of keyboard

IMG_0808.JPG (697.72 KiB) Viewed 7080 times

rear of keyboard 2

IMG_0809.JPG (852.21 KiB) Viewed 7080 times

controller 2

IMG_0810.JPG (870.68 KiB) Viewed 7080 times

controller 3

IMG_0811.JPG (740.21 KiB) Viewed 7080 times

[Khers]

Seems those cases are prone to crack, since POTV experienced something similar with one.

http://deskthority.net/want-to-buy-f56/ ... t8998.html

Couldn't agree more with quantalume

It's unfortunate when something like this survives for 30 years only to get damaged on the last leg of its journey.

[quantalume]

This should help with the wiring.

Soarer connections.jpeg (30.56 KiB) Viewed 7069 times

Soarer wiring.jpg (88.46 KiB) Viewed 7069 times

[seebart]

Seems those cases are prone to crack, since POTV experienced something similar with one.

want-to-buy-f56/wanted-upper-plastic-m-122-case-that-fits-an-f-122-t8998.html

Couldn't agree more with quantalume

quantalume wrote:It's unfortunate when something like this survives for 30 years only to get damaged on the last leg of its journey.

yes that is very dissapointing, I had a very similair experience when I sent Halvar two F´s well packaged within Germany via DHL and one ended up looking like this:

IMG_20140911_152128.jpg (403.18 KiB) Viewed 7056 times

same corner of the keyboard too as it seems...