The Oracle Answers

[crunch]

I know that feeling from my NMB. Space Invaders are right fiddly little buggers to pull caps off without opening up. Nightmare!

Is your G80 PCB mount? I know next to nothing about Cherry's boards (boo!) except they did a lot of that. Anyway, I guess you need to stick something in sideways to hold the switch top down while pulling these tight caps. That seems doable with MX, if awkward. Space Invaders have no top shell at all, so there was no way around it.

Space invaders are really easy to take off if you lift on one side and then the other.

[crunch]

Sorry for the crappy picture but could you connect this with a adapter of something else. looks a like a RJ45 connector.

[Muirium]

Take a better picture. The pins are the only thing of significance. Can't even see them there!

Re: pulling cpas from space invaders, I tried, believe me! A hundred and some times. I did every combination and sequence of pressure I could think of. About quarter to a half off them came off inside their caps in any case!

[Muirium]

I'm looking for a keyboard to use for gaming 70% of the time, with a little forum typing thrown in for good measure. I use the term "typing" loosely as I have not graduated past the 2-finger method yet.... Anyway, I'll just state some preferences.

In order of importance to me, or close to it:

• Reliability/customer service, I don't want to pay for shipping if the issue is a manufacturer defect *cough* corsair
• Rollover/adjustable repeat rate
• Feels, relatively linear and smooove or at least no click.
• Quiet, I'm VERY easily annoyed. This WAS my #1 consideration at first, thus topre and alps consideration. Still very important.
• TKL Preferred
• LEDeez, they are cool, objective fact. Individual lighting would be more useful than solid color. RGB, white or red.
• Construction, I like metal, at least on top. Aftermarket cases are not out of the question.
• Customization options are always nice.

I was really digging the K65 RGB with reds, but reported LED issues coupled with cost really soured my opinion. For that price, it should work or cost nothing to have fixed. I really prefer the sound of topre switches, but I have no idea how they feel and there are no topre keyboards with lighting. Plus they are more expensive than comparable MX boards and offer no real keycap options (ignoring NovaTouch TKL). So called "quiet" Alps type switches strike me as somewhere in between topre and MX in regards to sound, but just like topre, offer no real keycap or lighting options. They are also more expensive than MX boards and I can't find a linear version.

I would likely go with the cooler master topre/hybrid if it had lighting, but how pronounced is the bump/feedback? Workable for gaming? I could go with some sort of MX red board with o-rings/landing pads. I realize that my ideal board just doesn't exist, I just need a limited number of boards that you guys think are a good compromise. Ibviously I'm more likely to compromise on items lower on my list of preferences. Budget is close to $150, the lower the better. I could go higher (up to $200), but only if it's really worth it. Thanks in advance.

Hmm. I'm not sure what to recommend. If sound is most important, here's some recordings of various Topre, Cherry and Alps switch keyboards I did with the same gear so you can compare them:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/chr ... ox#p200826

The theme is: all mechanicals make more noise than cheap rubber dome membrane keyboards. Especially those with Cherry MX switches. Here's a recording of a non-clicky, linear, MX keyboard:

Ducky Shine 3: MX red.

Still pretty loud, right? MX makes a lot of clack. Alps and Topre can damp that, if you get the right kind. Topre Type-S (for silent) is very expensive, though. And no backlights of course. So maybe Matias (Alps) is the way to go. Matias switches have clear shells, so they can work well with LEDs. I don't know a good Matias switch keyboard to recommend with LEDs actually fitted, though. But I've seen some pretty pictures:

[7th1rt3en]

Thanks for the reply, Muirium. I know my post was a bit complicated. Topre S would be great, but I can't justify the cost for a gaming board. I did, however, see that it's possible to quiet normal Topre switches in a similar fashion (using dental bands). Matias Mini Quiet Pro may be an option, although the build quality is a bit "meh". I also looked at the Das Keyboard quiet key design. Do you know exactly what they did to the MX red to make it quieter? I can't find anyone talking about that. It would be nice to know if that is repeatable on a TKL board. So yeah, those look like my options.

• Matias quiet mini or similar: C install Matias switches in any Alps keyboard? Might be able to rig up LEDs, but there are no backlit keycaps options....or any keycaps.
• LED MX red keyboard with modded switches: Can be quiet like Das Keyboard "quiet key"? Are there any boards with a metal plate that still allow switches to be disassembled?
• Lower price regular Topre switch keyboard of some sort: can be modded to be like the Topre type S? no LED hope

If you can recommend a few keyboards based on that list of options, that would greatly help. Assuming what I listed are actually feasible options.

[Khers]

Das did noting to the MX Reds to make them more silent afaik. They are inherently somewhat silent - as long as you don't bottom out - given that they are linears and that's probably why they are marketed as the silent option by Das.

If you do bottom them out, difficult not to with that soft spring and lack of tactile feedback, they will be noticeably louder than for instance a Matias Quiet or a Topre Type-S.

With regards to your second bullet point, there are virtually no standard MX keyboards available with a plate that allows disassembly of switches. You'll have to go for a custom plate/keyboard for that, or PCB-mount.

You can do a dental elastic mod to a normal Topre, I've done it to my HHKB. I'm not quite sure I like the feeling of it as much as I do a Topre Type-S though. Since you'll shorten the key travel above the actuation point, you'll change the feel of the switch ever so slightly. I got the very thinnest dental elastics I could find but I still feel some difference. It should be noted however, that I only notice this when comparing my Topres. Moreover, the mod is quite fiddly to perform.

I took some photos when I modded my HHKB, can be found here.

[Muirium]

Here's the trick I used for silencing (a few keys on) my NovaTouch:



I also tried dental bands, but thin foam works best of all. So much, it swung me to get a real Type-S HHKB. Cookie's the man on the forum to talk to about sourcing the stuff. I found it quite challenging to fit, the first time, but once I learned my way around inside the NovaTouch my confidence increased. NovaTouch stems are looser than other Topres, so it's a good place to learn.

I wrote a huge review of the NovaTouch when it launched a few months ago. Amusingly, it has a few switches with LED mounts, which are active on the prototype but CM nixed on final release. (Looks like I need to dig out a good picture of the Scroll Lock / Windows Key Lock switches with an LED at the shoulder. Caps Lock simply uses a PCB mounted LED beside a regular switch.)

Backlighting, MX style, is possible on Topre. Just not actually manufactured.

Anyway, MX reds are loud (as shown on my Ducky above). There's no known way to damp MX on topping out. *Not* the same thing as bottoming out. I'm talking about the clack when the switch returns to its rest position. The spring smacks it up there, not your finger.

[Hypersphere]

Looks like the switch is wearing a mini-tutu.

[crunch]

Take a better picture. The pins are the only thing of significance. Can't even see them there!

Re: pulling cpas from space invaders, I tried, believe me! A hundred and some times. I did every combination and sequence of pressure I could think of. About quarter to a half off them came off inside their caps in any case!

This is the only one I can do right now, not my picture.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

This is the only one I can do right now, not my picture.

When you say RJ45, you mean 8P8C, right? And all eight wires? That's unusual for a keyboard: it's normally 4P or 6P.

Your picture there is 6P6C.

[crunch]

Ok so this 6P6C conector can you find a adapter or something to either PS2 or USB, I know nothing about this.

[760 mmHg]

I'm sorry to bother the Oracle again but my new keyboard made one of my colleagues jealous and she wondered if the Oracle would be able to help her find the rare keyboard blend she's been dreaming of. As I failed to find this mythological beast, could you please help her?

Here are her criteria :

• Typing usage
• Price $0-$125
• Windows operating system
• No drivers
• No special keys needed
• AZERTY layout with numerical keypad
• Silence is a top priority
• USB, no extra USB hub on keyboard necessary
• High actuation force (55/60 grams or more)
• Shipping to/Buying in France possible

[Daniel Beardsmore]

See, language abuse has got out of hand. You can qualify "uniqueness" as "fairly unique" (amount > 1) or "very unique" (amount < 1 … ?), which is stupid. You either have one of something, or you don't.

There is no such thing as a silent keyboard!!!

The idea of marketing Cherry MX–based keyboards as "silent" is absolute and utter nonsense. It shouldn't even be legal. Cherry MX–based keyboards make a lot of noise.

If she really wants quiet, then she needs scissor switch — it's the only genuinely quiet technology on offer. I have no idea who makes a good scissor keyboard, but Cherry make some really stylish ones. I don't know about their noise level — we have two Trust scissor keyboards in the office, and one is actually really noisy, while the other is really quiet.

Otherwise, she needs to replace "silent" with a description of adequate noise level. The Quiet Pro for example is just as loud as a normal rubber dome, just with a different sound envelope (deeper sound). It's still quiet, but not anywhere close to scissor.

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/chr ... t9497.html

Compare the Quiet Pro and Trust KB-1450 recordings.

[760 mmHg]

You're totally right, this is why silence is mentioned as a priority, not an expectation. Maybe "Noise level as low as possible" would have been a better formulation, but as you can easily guess English is not my main language and I'm trying my best to express myself as well as I can.

I'll come back with her answer concerning the noise level, thank you for your fast answer!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

By the way, when you say "jealous" — what exactly is it about your keyboard that she wants for herself? Sound? Feel? Prestige? What does she think is wrong with her current keyboard that she seeks to rectify with a replacement? In fact, what does she have at the moment?

[The Keyboard Oracle]

The Keyboard Oracle has decided: The Cherry G80-3000 Azerty/MX Black.

[Hypersphere]

My KBP V60 Matias Quiet Click seems to be the quietest mechanical keyboard that I have tried. To me it sounds quieter than my HHKB Type-S, although I do not have a decibel meter or any equipment to do a spectral analysis. The only keyboard I have that is quieter is the one on my Macbook Air laptop, which I suppose is a scissor-switch.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The Keyboard Oracle has decided: The Cherry G80-3000 Azerty/MX Black.

The Oracle is confused. The G80-3000 is fairly loud. Not like Model M loud, but you can definitely hear someone pounding away on one. Also, inflicting MX black on someone is mean! :-P

I had a colleague for whom only scissor was acceptable — even Cherry ML was far too loud for her, and the Realforce had too much travel.

[The Keyboard Oracle]

The Keyboard Oracle has decided:

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Oh good, I get to invent electricity.

[crunch]

This is the only one I can do right now, not my picture.

When you say RJ45, you mean 8P8C, right? And all eight wires? That's unusual for a keyboard: it's normally 4P or 6P.

Your picture there is 6P6C.

I thinking of buying the keyboard and would like to know if it's possible to convert it somehow to ps2 or usb.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I thinking of buying the keyboard and would like to know if it's possible to convert it somehow to ps2 or usb.

Yes it will be possible somehow. Whether the effort and cost required is within your expectations depends entirely on what keyboard it is, and so far all I see is a cable.

[crunch]

Here is the keyboard, it has white space invaders.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

OK, so it's a regular PC layout, so that's promising. It might just be that it talks AT on a modular connector, in which case you'd either need to cut the plug, wire up a PS/2 plug to a modular jack (to preserve the keyboard intact), or replace the whole cable with a PS/2 cable from a donor keyboard.

Not a guarantee, as there are perfectly normal–looking Alps Bigfoot keyboards that use one or more SGI protocols, instead of the AT protocol.

What model is it? That might shed some more light on it if no-one else recognises it. The rear label might give some clues as to what system it was designed for.

[crunch]

I got some info and a picture.

Liberty: Serien No. TK900009
Made in Thailand
117173-001

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I think it's safe to say that Liberty were not one of the big names in computer terminals. The only thing I could find was this dead topic:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35205.0

No answers, but it does show you the allocations of the wires in at least one terminal. There's some models here, but they're not widely documented:

http://www.usedprice.com/items/computer ... index.html

I think this one is going to be a gamble! Interestingly, there seems to be a switch on the bottom right — but my CSI isn't working and I can't see what it selects.

[asgeirtj]

Hi

I'm getting a GON MX MINI and I'm trying to decide whether I want 55g korean ergo clear or 55g korean browns. I know I like browns, I have a few boards with them. I've got the 55g clears in my switch tester and I quite like it. However I've never owned a full board with clears so I'm quite concerned how they are in practice when I get them on a whole board. I'm buying this board for gaming so my primary concern is if the ergoclears would be a good match for gaming. I'm playing Starcraft 2, an rts game if that helps any. My concerns:

1. I feel that somehow the clears are somehow less efficient to press, like it takes more work to press them than browns, is this just in my head? This would be bad for fast-paced gaming.
2. I'm concerned that maybe clears are worse for double clicking like the blues are?

This aside I think I enjoy the clears more than the browns. But i'm still hesitant. Please help me decide!

[Muirium]

Going GON is not to be taken lightly. I'd play it safe with brown, which you know you like. The switches can be opened up though, I assume? You can always mod them later, if the plate is smart and gives you access. That way you can try a few keys, and even customise different areas of the keyboard distinctly.

[Muirium]

Looks like the switch is wearing a mini-tutu.

What I have in store once Cookie's making more of them:

[crunch]

I think it's safe to say that Liberty were not one of the big names in computer terminals. The only thing I could find was this dead topic:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35205.0

No answers, but it does show you the allocations of the wires in at least one terminal. There's some models here, but they're not widely documented:

http://www.usedprice.com/items/computer ... index.html

I think this one is going to be a gamble! Interestingly, there seems to be a switch on the bottom right — but my CSI isn't working and I can't see what it selects.

Thanks will look at that. Do you know if it would be possible to use something like RJ12 to DB9 and then DB9 to PS2.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ADAPTOR-DB9-J ... 5b019cccda

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PS-2-PS2-PS-2 ... 3ccbce2174