Niz plum 35g or 45g?

[Muirium]

As for the layout it is too soon to tell, but it doesn't seem that big of an issue. The arrows, although not suitable for gaming are not that alien, the backspace though....

If you keep using it, I think you’ll appreciate the backspace position. It’s a row nearer to your hands after all, making it easier to hit. On as many of my other boards that allow it, I reprogram the big backslash key to backspace.

Oh, the Backspace. One of the most infectious bits of the HHKB. I wonder which key it could be on this other, ever so slightly louder 60% of mine?



My Kishsaver is #2 in use behind my #1 HHKB, actually. Really helps they are so alike in layout, if wildly different in noise and physical weight! If the HHKB ever made a sound remotely like the Kish does in regular use, I'd know I'd just snapped it clean in two.

[Muirium]

£125 no more. It's silently risen to £134.50 now:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HHKP-Pro-2-P ... 635-2958-0

And Hasu tells me my order (controller for the HHKB and an Alps PCB for a separate project) will come to $127. Hmm…

[wobbled]

I think the best deal I've had on a HHKB was for £115 and I got a Novatouch for £70

The HHKB was marked as having some cosmetic problems but to this day I still can't find them.
And the Novatouch was completely stock and felt like crap, I've since stolen the sliders, and turned the HHKB into accepting mx keycaps, and I've converted the Novatouch to regular topre sliders from my spare parts. Just need to find a nice ISO topre keycap set now!

Anyway! If you can get a Topre board for around the £100 mark then you are incredibly lucky.

[Muirium]

Yeah, it's the *hike* that spites me! I know how much I value my HHKB: quite a bit. Just I've also got that $75 Hasu controller to add to the price. That's what put me on the fence instead of buying yesterday.

The controller is essential, the way I use mine. Don't much like the looks of the new models (even the wired ones), so a straight up black brother for mine here is what I need. Or want, rather! My keyboard needs are well met, obviously, but that goes without saying around here!

[Go-Kart]

As for the sound, it sounds muted and somewhat thocky as every video on youtube shows but the spacebar and stabilisers are very quiet if you don't smash them. Just mentioning the last fact because I have seen some typing demonstrations that had me worried.

Very nice! I know Muir is militantly against the battery bump but I don't mind it; it's a white HHKB so it doesn't get much better in my mind.

As for the space bar, I know Palatino has experimented with a few different mods, but I found Krytox'n the wires to death worked great for me.

[Muirium]

Oh, come on now. That little hump doesn’t bother me at all. Not at all.



What is it made of? Is there a hidden chamber within? Might this secrete a noxious elixir? Or might this mound disguise an undiscovered tomb?

Ahem. No. Not fussed, me. Not one little bit, fellas.

[ironicmoustache]

While we're all talking about the HHKB: how does the Type-S feel compared to the standard HHKB? Been thinking of getting a Type-S when I get back on the HHKB horse, if only to have something different than what I was/am used to.

[Muirium]

Same feel. The damping is a ring on the top side of the slider, which dampens the plastic on plastic smack when you release the key and it tops out again. The sound is what changes, very much for the better without that nasty sharp noise in the mix. Still thocky.

I damped my 87u myself, keeping the top right three keys stock for comparison. Made a video about it and damped MX a while ago. I’ll dig it out. Rambly but all there.

Edit:

Here we go. Boy, do Novatouches need those rings!

Here’s a newer video I was also remembering, taking on the Topre’s from that MX silent red angle.

[ironicmoustache]

Great, thanks! They definitely sound better.

I might have to postpone the HHKB though, found a 5251 Beamer that's actually local to me (which is insane, given I'm in Malaysia)...

[Muirium]

Ha! Destiny demands!

[ironicmoustache]

That it does...

I've always wanted a 3276/3278 but the 5251 is a 20-minute drive away, which trumps everything. Cheaper than eBay/international prices, too, although still going to set me back a good amount. Sigh.

[Muirium]

…but I've been thinking of getting [an HHKB] again and the past few posts haven't helped one bit...

Tell me about it.

1 available / 2 sold in 24 hours

The seller wasn't up for my offer of a no-shipping-required discount. (I'm in the same town.) But I noticed one had just sold, and the price with that 5% off promo code is £127.77 shipped, so, uh, well, y'see…

[XMIT]

The NiZ / Plum domes are about 10g lighter than advertised. The 55g domes are great, I prefer them to Topre 45g. Force curve here: https://chart-studio.plotly.com/~haata/573

[Muirium]

Weighting aside, do they feel as roundly tactile to you as Topre?

You've got me thinking I could experiment with some light ones, seeing as I'll be inside an HHKB soon, installing damping rings. I prefer 45g Topre to 55g, but I've never tried Nopre domes.

First up, though, I'm keen to see just how different a new Pro 2 feels against my multi-million word-count 2014 HHKB Type-S here! I should be able to feel a difference. Yet on this board, the Z key feels heavier than A right above it, despite massive difference in use.

[XMIT]

They are just different. The peak force required is lower but stays pretty consistent through the stroke.

[Muirium]

Right. That's my impression looking at the plot:

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Definitely not linear—that would be a straight diagonal line, increasing linearly—but not nearly that pronounced Topre S shape either. They're different, potentially in a good way, but you'll know it when you feel it.

Am I right in guessing they're conspicuously easy *not* to bottom out, for such a light weighted switch? I may well be 180º wrong, but!

[ironicmoustache]

I tried a Niz Plum mini 84—the 75% style one with the 45g switches—once, sometime last year. It wasn't a planned thing, so I didn't have my Topre boards with me to compare, but my immediate reaction was that the switches were perhaps cut from a similar cloth, but different enough to be more than just copies or whatever.

Would be interested in trying the 55g ones, actually.

The 5251 Beamer thing didn't work out (ended up returning it; the joys of buying locally) so I'm back to trying to line up a white HHKB Type-S from Yahoo Auctions or wherever...

[Riverman]

The NiZ / Plum domes are about 10g lighter than advertised. The 55g domes are great, I prefer them to Topre 45g. Force curve here: https://chart-studio.plotly.com/~haata/573

I'm not so sure about that. I have both a 45g Niz and a 45g Topre in front of me, and they feel very similar. I've also had a 35g Topre, and that felt absolutely nothing like the Niz does. It was far lighter, and hardly tactile at all. The 45g Niz is very tactile, at least as much so as a 45g factory silenced Topre.

[XMIT]

We need to lobby HaaTa to get his force gage working again so we can get actual data.

[Palatino]

I have a 35g Niz board, and to me it feels barely tactile at all. However, I really love it. I’d say it’s closer to a cherry red than 45g Topre in terms of lightness. However, it’s nicer than reds because of the roundedness and softness. I can type nice and fast on it but with more cushioning than reds, and with fewer mistakes because the actuation is further down, and/or requires a little more force perhaps. Soundwise, there’s no Topre-like thock, but a sort of plush woosh-woosh effect. I got it just to try, but it’s definitely a keeper. It’s the ultimate chilled typing board: when I don’t have enough oomph even for Topre, I turn to the Niz. And that’s not to mention all the other features: bluetooth, programmability, mouse keys, MX mount for keycap flexibility, ability to adjust the actuation point - it’s a pretty complete package.

[Riverman]

The Niz keyboards are pretty great, although they could use a little improvement. I agree that the actuation is further down. You really have to bottom out with them or else they won't register, and some keys are a little more sensitive than others. Mine was having issues with the 3 key on the numpad, and no amount of calibrating would fix it. It also felt less tactile than the keys around it. I think what was happening was that the rubber dome sheet had to be stretched too much to fit over the screw posts, and the dome down in that corner was out of alignment. I cut the sheet in two in between the alpha and nav sections, and that seems to have made a decent improvement. It definitely relieved some stress on the dome sheet. The keyboard's plate was also strangely bent. It would flatten out when sandwiched in between the case halves, but it had an extremely noticeable curve to it when removed. I bent it straight as best I could, but I don't think that affected the performance either way. I'm very impressed with the stabilizers, though. How they can make Cherry profile compatible Costar-type stabilizers when no one else can is beyond me. I disassembled my Realforce to grease the space bar's stabilizer last night, and that was sure a time consuming job.

[Muirium]

Having recently wasted an hour finagling an Alps wire stabiliser (Costar style) back into place under an AEK spacebar on a laser cut plate with ever so slightly too big mounting holes, I hard disagree!

Topre stabs should be on everything. They’re sublime. Pull a cap and off it comes, even easier than Cherry stabilisers. Yet the feel is good and snappy like fiddly Costar. They aye work with Cherry dyesubs too, I can vouch. Beautiful!

[Riverman]

Once Topre stabilizers are greased, I'll agree, they are great. Ungreased, they can have an awful rattle. The AEK stabilizers are definitely odd. I disassembled one recently and had to read up on how to get the wire seated on the space bar, since it has to go straight down due to the alignment peg. In the end, it wasn't hard, but it would've taken me quite a while to figure it out on my own.

[Muirium]

For anyone else eyeing up Topre, HHKB Pro 2 Black, new, reduced down to £125:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HHKP-Pro-2-P ... 635-2958-0

I've dealt with this company previously, good stuff.

Well, I ordered (and paid for) mine on Monday. Friday afternoon now and the bastard still hasn't shipped. Nagged him yesterday, replied sorry, he'll get on with it. He can expect an opinionated rating! Dinnae keep Mu waiting on a Topre, jeez, have you nae wits, sonny?

[Muirium]

They finally shipped it last night, and as I'm in the very same town, it arrived via my postie today. Just now, in fact. Got it here on my Mac to give it a whirl.

So how is a new, stock HHKB Pro 2 (manufactured 2020) compared to my heavily used Type-S (manufactured 2014)? Well, my immediate impression is this thing needs damped! Sounds much too "thwacky" for my taste. The familiar HHKB sound is all in there, but masked behind that plastic clack. I expected this, of course, which is why I have damping rings set aside to install. But it irritates me even more than I thought! Been a long, long time since I last used undamped Topre. What were they thinking!

Other impressions: the black case is greyer than I remember. (I briefly had a black HHKB many years ago, proxying, as seen in one of DT's vintage headers.) Goes nicely with my space grey Mac so no complaints. Interestingly, this shade actually makes the notorious "black-on-black" legends a bit easier to see, here in daylight. Actually practical? I wouldn't go that far!

Another surprise is how nice the stock black ABS spacebar feels. It's thinner feeling than the PBT spacebar I'm used to, when I run my thumb along it, but in actual typing (this post) it's perfectly nice enough. I will of course remove it, pronto, before I shine it! I've a few PBT spacebars in several colours to try.

The stabs are nice and quiet. Well, far as I can tell over the thwacking! Practically a clicky keyboard this one, right now. The sound is not growing on me! My fingers keep saying chill, this is your intimately familiar Type-S, but my ears, ow!

[Palatino]

Congratulations on the new arrival! Though now there's no chance of you buying any of my remaining keyboards, bah!

Undamped Topre has really grown on me. I started off disliking it because it sounded too much like lots of the dome-and-slider boards I had, which were good boards all right, it's just that I expected Topre to be a step above, based on its price, and the sound was telling me otherwise. The feel was very nice, but it's hard to divorce feel from sound. Now, though, with my Pro 2, whose domes seem to have stiffened a bit through age, I actually prefer the combination of strong tactility and undamped thwack, just as I prefer the combination of lighter domes and silenced sliders in my Type-S. The latter is for silky caressing, the former for riotous pounding, and I'm going to stop there because my language through no fault of my own has turned suggestive and I don't want this thread to go that way because keyboards are too important for that!

[Go-Kart]

O.K., now having bought a Hybrid, I'll admit, it's not quite as good looking as a Pro 2. The battery bump doesn't bother me as, even now typing on it, I have to peer right over the board to spot it. The main aesthetic difference between this and the Pro 2 for me is the top edges. The top case is flat and the edges are more pronounced than on the Pro 2. Still a good looking board in my opinion though. The space bar feels a little different. Almost like it's lower or possibly a different profile. It's not but it does feel different to my Pro 2.

It was fun to use in the office; it's first day in service on my last day at my now previous employer.

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[Muirium]

Type S? But isn’t the last day on the job the magical time to unleash Teh Noisehys?

Meanwhile, at Castle µ…

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Attentive readers: greetings! Be sure to note the period in the above file name: Bros. Rhymes with cross, not “hose” or “ho’s” for that matter, dreadful moderns.
I have already placed my order with Hasu. Related: what’s the deal with PayPal not letting you use a USD dollar balance as partial payment for a new invoice?

So, to take stock: OP comes to DT seeking advice on which Niz to buy. Several HHKBs are subsequently bought, including OP. All’s well that ends well!

[Go-Kart]

I'd hope to treat my colleagues to an M or an F by now but alas, the best they've had was Pine Whites in my FK-2000+. My F will arrive just in time for me to work from home full time. It'll just be my neighbours below that get to share my joy.

The new addition to your family is quite the canvas. This is the thing with white HHKBs for me at least; they already look so pretty. Whereas a black model? There's so many ways they can be dressed up! Even something like neon green mods would look a treat on that puppy!

[ironicmoustache]

I managed to get a white Type-S on Yahoo Auctions for a pretty good price, should be with me in a couple of days (unless it gets stuck at customs, who proceed to then "not receive" my email despite knowing exactly when I sent it). Excited to have one again, even if I may not end up using it as much as I really should (I really do think I'm a 55g guy)...