We need a better adjective than "mechanical".

[bhtooefr]

Metal spring could work, although it does exclude some acceptable dome over membrane boards (I said acceptable, not good), and it also includes some atrocious boards that do use a metal spring.

I keep circling back to trying to make "mechanical" work, but there's some odd switch that screws it up.

Cherry and Alps are without a doubt mechanical.

The Model M and F are mechanical if you use a definition that includes metal springs (but some rubber domes use them, too), or one that includes elements of the switch moving in any axis other than the vertical axis. It's not mechanical if you use a definition that requires that a piece of metal (rather than metalized mylar) makes contact with another piece of metal. Both the Model M and F should be included in a definition of "mechanical", IMO.

Hall effect switches, I'm not even sure how to classify those! I'd actually argue that they're not mechanical, they're their own thing.

The problem is, we use "mechanical" to mean good, when it should just mean mechanical, and mechanical being a set that overlaps with good. But, what's a term that means good, intuitively means good, but isn't actually "good"? (So people don't think their G15s and MadCatz boards are included.)

[Icarium]

It doesn't matter if it fits or not. It's a keyboard they're all "mechanical".

Here let me copy n paste for you:
A mechanical system manages power to accomplish a task that involves forces and movement. Mechanical is derived from the Latin word machina,[1] which in turn derives from the Doric Greek μαχανά (machana), Ionic Greek μηχανή (mechane) "contrivance, machine, engine"[2] and that from μῆχος (mechos), "means, expedient, remedy".[3]

The Oxford English Dictionary[4] defines the adjective mechanical as skilled in the practical application of an art or science, of the nature of a machine or machines, and relating to or caused by movement, physical forces, properties or agents such as is dealt with by Mechanics. Similarly Merriam-Webster Dictionary[5] defines "mechanical" as relating to machinery or tools.

Machines employ power to achieve desired forces and movement. A machine has a power source and actuators that generate forces and movement, and a system of mechanisms that shape the actuator input to achieve a specific application of output forces and movement. Modern machines often include computers and sensors that monitor performance and plan movement, and are called mechanical systems.

The meaning of the word "machine" is traced by the Oxford English Dictionary[1] to an independently functioning structure and by Merriam-Webster Dictionary[2] to something that has been constructed. This includes human design into the meaning of machine.

The adjective "mechanical" refers to skill in the practical application of an art or science, as well as relating to or caused by movement, physical forces, properties or agents such as is dealt with by mechanics.[1] Similarly Merriam-Webster Dictionary[3] defines "mechanical" as relating to machinery or tools.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Thank you Mister Data.

[bhtooefr]

I'd argue that a FingerWorks isn't mechanical, nor is that awful laser keyboard that came out a few years ago.

It'd be a REAL stretch to consider the Microsoft Surface Touch Cover mechanical - it's an acoustic keyboard. Yes, acoustics are based on vibrations...

[webwit]

What would you call the Datahand? Tapping a key causes two magnets to separate. This provides a tactile curve. An optical transmitter/receiver registers when a space is created between the magnets. I call it a magnetic/optical keyboard instead of mechanical, somehow I associate mechanical with a spring, so I think I'm a fan of the earlier suggestion to use the term mechanical spring keyboard. If we look for a general term to include other high quality mechanisms, like almost everything except standard rubber dome and laptop switches, I think we need more neutral wording like high quality keyboards or professional keyboards or something like that.

[bhtooefr]

And, yes, that's where I was going towards, something to include all high quality keyboards that wouldn't get misconstrued to mean someone's awful $300 Mad Catz board, yet included any type of switch (yes, even rubber dome and scissor-stabilized rubber dome) as long as it's a truly good keyboard.

I do like professional, although you'll get the rubber dome "pro gamer" keyboards that actually suck in there. But, I still like how it goes - professional keyboard users want a high quality tool for their day to day work.

[Robstero]

'Professional' sounds pretty good to me.

I remember reading an interesting definition of 'Professional' kit once - the question about any such piece of kit is: would you stake your pay packet on this piece of equipment operating correctly? The theory being that if your piece of equipment fails in any way then you've temporarily lost your ability to bring home a pay packet. If you honestly would stake that pay packet on your gear, then your gear is pro!

And then I guess there's the less tangible 'craftsman' argument: if you're doing anything that you care about - paid or not - then you should have tools that you find comfortable and enjoy using; that will last for a long time; and that will not impede you on your journey to becoming an expert in your field! There may be another word to describe those aspects... but to me "professional" covers a good chunk of it.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I kind of view the product classification of "professional" as a slight against amateurs, as though amateurs are just idiots who don't know what they're doing and therefore can't possibly expect either quality or features. After all, how can you grow as an amateur if you're hobbled with rubbish? (It also suggests in this case that "professional" keyboards have features used by professionals, which means what exactly? Plenty of expensive mechanical boards don't even have the basics such as detachable cables, cable guides, USB ports, two-level adjustable feet, plate mount switches where applicable …)

Everyone should have a quality keyboard regardless of whether they use it at work – the world has far too much cheap garbage and far too little quality merchandise.

Just my senseless rant for the day :) Carry on …

[kbdfr]

"Professional"?

I would say a Preh keyboard is a professional tool in the environment it is intended for: POS applications and the like. But it is and remains a nasty rubberdome.
Besides, everyone making a professional use of a Cherry MY or even Logitech keyboard (i.e. typing on such a keyboard at their workplace) will claim it is a professional keyboard.
And any keyboard manufacturer is free to call his silicone keyboard a "professional" or even a "highly professional" device. Under certain conditions, it will even be that.

So I find what is needed is not a sort of fitness-for-purpose assertion, but a clearly descriptive term.
What about "mechanical"?

[nathanscribe]

What about "mechanical"?

Ha. What about "proper"?

[sth]

I thought Topre could activate without the spring, it was mostly there for 'Feeling of oneness with cup rubber'?

no, that's what the cup rubber is for.

Lawl. Topres definitely need the spring. They wouldn't be able to change capacitance otherwise. The spring does nearly nothing for the feel of the switch. It's mostly the cup rubber one feels.

heh yeah i meant the rubber is for the resistance and the spring is required for activation.

[phetto]

I vote for proper!

[bhtooefr]

Hmm, maybe artisan? (Implying the keyboards are assembled by artisans...)

Although, if interpreted strictly, that may exclude nearly everything but beam spring and those steampunk conversions.

Alternately, Google gives "A worker in a skilled trade, esp. one that involves making things by hand" as the definition of artisan, so artisan keyboards could be FOR artisans? (Granted, that's really stretching the definition...)

The downside of "artisan" is it brings an air of snobbiness to our hobby, but then again, when some of us are buying $300 rubber domes (very fancy ones, but rubber domes nonetheless), there's already an air of snobbiness.

In any case, words based around the "goodness" of the keyboard are way too subjective. For instance, some people hate buckling springs, yet some think they're the best thing since sliced bread. Some people despise Cherry, yet others think that they have no equal. Some people think that Topre is no better than a $5 rubber dome, some wouldn't take anything else. Hell, some prefer the $5 rubber dome! (I've swapped out older Dell rubber domes for newer ones, because the end user wanted LESS tactility and MORE mushiness. Yes, it hurt to do that.)

[sordna]

nah, artisan won't work.
Best altertative to mechanical I've seen so far is "metal spring" keyboard. It covers cherries, torpe, alps, and buckling spring, and excludes the typical rubber dome keyboards.

[JBert]

I counter that with Fujitsu Peerless and Cherry MY.

[Icarium]

Both have a metal spring, just not a coil spring.

[RC-1140]

Actually Cherry MY do have a leaf and a coil spring.

[bhtooefr]

And Peerless's spring is coil, too. (Slider over coil spring over plastic cup over rubber dome over membrane.)

But, actually, I can't think of anything we talk about as a "good keyboard" except for buckling rubber sleeve, that ISN'T metal spring. Even Topre, although the metal spring isn't being used for resistance, so it's stretching it, but it is there...

[webwit]

The Peerless was spawned from hell and cheats. It is the only mechanical keyboard switch specifically designed to feel like a rubber dome, with a ping.

[bhtooefr]

I actually find that Peerless is actually quite tactile, but it's got a ton of initial force, and due to the spring-on-spring action, the tactile point isn't stable. End result, it feels horrible.

[Findecanor]

Actually Cherry MY do have a leaf and a coil spring.

In the MY, the coil spring provides most of the resistance and the leaf spring alone is like only ~20 - 25 g of force, total.

I wouldn't know if I would call it mechanical, though. It is only a plunger with springs over membrane.
While the IBM buckling springs is also mostly plunger and springs over membrane, there are actual mechanics involved: the spring has action when it reaches "catastrophic buckling", causing the hammer to move.

Edit: missed a 2 in 25 g..

[bhtooefr]

What about linear Cherry MX switches, though? A leaf spring is pushed out of the way by a plunger until it goes down all the way, and that plunger is supported by a coil spring. Not much "mechanics" there.

Which is why "metal spring" is nice. It allows interesting keyboards that don't have mechanisms.

[Findecanor]

The leaf spring being pushed out of the way is sliding against an inclined plane. That is definitely mechanics.

[Icarium]

Findecanor: Did you really manage to bend the discussion of the proposed new term back to it fitting the old crappy term? If that was a troll-attempt it was a damn fine one.

[Findecanor]

No, I am just arguing about what constitutes mechanical, comparing MY to buckling springs. I agree that it adds nothing to the real topic here, so I'll stop.

[urbanus]

i like 'discrete' or 'discrete mechanism' keyboards.

+1 (I wish I could "upvote" you).

This is a good definition because it's simple, it captures essentially what is meant when we talk about "mechanical" keyboards, and it includes/excludes most of the cases that are commonly considered to be mechanical/non-mechanical respectively.

It's also non-prejudicial. Compare with "anything except rubber domes", which causes people to class Topres as non-mechanical, despite there being a clear argument in favour because they have a discrete capacative switch under each key.

Of course it's hard for a generalisation to be perfect, so there will be arguable cases. For example, is a scissor-switch classed as "mechanical" under this definition -- considering that each key has its own scissor mechanism? Arguably not, because the scissor is only for key stabilisation, not switch actuation.

So yeah, I'm going with sth's definition. Agreed.