Y'all might hate me, but here's my problem ...

[Polecat]

I'd actually prefer a BAE, big backspace/delete, and big shift key. Hey, find out what the average is of both shift keys put together and put one on each side of the keyboard.

That was my required layout for decades. Monterey K104 (or K102 if you can find one) fits the bill nicely. I still have three or four of those, but they've all turned yellow, even the industrial gray one. I just can't handle that...but they're great keyboards otherwise, at least the early ones with doubleshot caps.

[hellothere]

> I've posted a couple lists of the different generations and models, but I don't know how to put that in the wiki or to make up a slick looking chart.
I can, if you'd like. However, it's finding time that's always a problem. If you want to show me something you have, I can at least noodle it for you.

> Monterey K104 (or K102 if you can find one) fits the bill nicely.
Cool. The 104 is in the Wiki. Really nice looking keyboard. I could easily reprogram the keys that are between the Alt and CTRL (Strg and Alt, in the pic; hey, it's qwertz layout) with SharpKeys.

[Polecat]

> I've posted a couple lists of the different generations and models, but I don't know how to put that in the wiki or to make up a slick looking chart.
I can, if you'd like. However, it's finding time that's always a problem. If you want to show me something you have, I can at least noodle it for you.

> Monterey K104 (or K102 if you can find one) fits the bill nicely.
Cool. The 104 is in the Wiki. Really nice looking keyboard. I could easily reprogram the keys that are between the Alt and CTRL (Strg and Alt, in the pic; hey, it's qwertz layout) with SharpKeys.

Here are a couple of previous posts with some details on the Northgates:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12915&p=437588

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12915&p=437551

Scroll down the pages for the actual posts. I've gathered data on more examples since then, and learned a bit more about the models and serial numbers, so I need to update that info.

The U.S. K102 and K104 Montereys had a blank bottom row key on the left:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12915&p=445170

The bold arrow keys mean it's an early model with double shot caps. Later caps with "normal" arrows are printed, and those legends will eventually wear off. Very late K104s have Windows keys and Hua Jie clone switches, and the gray legends on those caps may be lasered?

[hellothere]

> The U.S. K102 and K104 Montereys had a blank bottom row key on the left
I'll first say that I've seen those keycap legends a number of times. Second, while I was rooting around to try to find a keycap, I found a blank one in my spares. It's a bottom row key. I've not owned any Montereys or Northgates, so it's probably off something different. Focus 2001 or 8000, maybe.

I'm STILL retr0brighting the keycaps on my Chiconys with the SMK switches. It's been 4 or 5 days.

[hellothere]

> Scroll down the pages for the actual posts. I've gathered data on more examples since then, and learned a bit more about the models and serial numbers, so I need to update that info.
Gotcha. Let's continue in PM land. Just a sec.

[Polecat]

> The U.S. K102 and K104 Montereys had a blank bottom row key on the left
I'll first say that I've seen those keycap legends a number of times. Second, while I was rooting around to try to find a keycap, I found a blank one in my spares. It's a bottom row key. I've not owned any Montereys or Northgates, so it's probably off something different. Focus 2001 or 8000, maybe.

I'm STILL retr0brighting the keycaps on my Chiconys with the SMK switches. It's been 4 or 5 days.

Gen2 Focus keyboards had a blank key there, as did some DTK models. We called it the "Any key" back in the day, as in "Press Any Key to Continue...".

I'm still holding out on retrobrighting anything. Too many different opinions and versions.

[hellothere]

I'm probably going to have to stop doing whole cases, anyhow. The developer stuff I use has gotten a lot more expensive. "Straight" 20% hydrogen peroxide requires UV. I don't really have a place where a tub of hydrogen peroxide AND a couple UV lights wouldn't get knocked over.

I probably wouldn't do retr0bright on a full case if said case was for something interesting or uncommon like, say, the Stackpole keyboard I have.