Greetings from a new member

[zslane]

Hello everyone!

I am making my first foray into the world of custom (maybe personalized is a better word?) mechanical keyboards and am delighted to find a resource like DT available to me. I guess I am soliciting the thoughts and opinions of all you experienced keypullers out there, mostly for your general perspective than anything else.

I should make my needs/preferences plain up front:

• I am a programmer, and so I spend countless hours every day typing tons of text with heavy use of the non-alpha characters. And not just at work. At home too.
• I use full 104-key ANSI keyboards. Full stop. I am not interested in smaller keyboards for portability or for the tiniest footprint possible, so no TKLs or 60%-ers thankyouverymuch. I understand their appeal, they're just not for me, that's all.
• When it comes to keycaps, I love spherical tops and anything with that retro look, so its DSA and SA profiles for me. In fact, once I discovered that DSA and SA profile keys even existed, I came to really loathe the conventional OEM or DSC profile. I was a huge fan of the Symbolics LISP Machine back in the 80s (even got to spend a couple of hours with one once in '84), but sadly I missed out on all the Symbiosis and Space Cadet group buys. Major sad face.

So I am basically looking to build two new keyboards with the contemporary 104-key ANSI layout, but with keycaps that have that lovely retro spherical look and feel. I am also searching for a very particular keyswitch feel, but I don't yet know which switch will deliver what I am looking for. All I know is that I don't want it to feel or sound like an IBM model M. I don't want to hear a loud snap and I don't need to feel it either. That's why I am leaning towards soft-ish linear switches.

So here's where I'm at right now: I have a Cherry MX switch tester on the way so I can decide which switch I like best. I am expecting to settle on red or brown since I want a pretty soft feel. Once I know which switch I like, I plan to order a Filco and swap the keycaps with some Signature Plastics DSAs and/or SAs. I really like the uniform, narrow bevel around the keys that I see on the Filco.

For the keycaps I have a set of DSA Dolch keys on the way, and those will probably be for my home keyboard. But for my work keyboard I really want a set of SA profile Space Cadets, or at least something very very similar (like the SPH series). Since they are all gone, I am probably going to just put together a personal order of similar keys on my own (I don't have the patience to wait for the next group buy, and who knows if it will include another round of Space Cadet keys anyway).

The whole point of this exercise is not to turn this into a hobby (yeah, yeah, this is how it starts, right?), but to simply find my ideal keyboard for typing lots of programming code. I'm not looking to collect or to have the most obscure build. Once my fingers are happy, I'm done.

Unless... I get bit by the keycap bug and can't stop falling in love with new keycap sets...

[klikkyklik]

Welcome aboard!

Oh, if you only knew where this whole thing is going to take you... enjoy the adventure!

[Muirium]

Good luck fighting off the habit!



These are SA caps. 7bit's doing a rerun of the Space Cadet colours in Round 5a, which you can order. It might take until next year for it to ship! But it will. And he's making quite the homage set:


(Yes, there are numpads as well.)

As for switches: sounds like you want linear. That's what the Symbolics and Space Cadet boards were, after all. Something to look out for is that caps do have an effect on switch feel. Big tall caps like SA make switches feel a good bit lighter. (Not because of their weight, but their leverage I think.) DSA will feel much more similar to whatever default caps are on your MX switch tester.

[zslane]

Interesting. I tried putting in an order for the HONEYB/TKL/SPH set with NUMPAD, CURSKEY, and FUNCTION addons and received an invoice for everything except the TKL base set! Which led me to conclude that it isn't available for ordering through the Round 5a group buy. I didn't try to order the CADET set (because of the lack of standard []/{} keys of all things), but maybe I should just CLEARALL and try again with CADET in the order (and just get over my annoyance with the []/() keys, which I suppose I could replace separately somehow).

[zslane]

And what is the difference between CADET and CADET/L? The graphic template is identical between them, but the price is quite different.

[chzel]

If I recall correctly it was a special price while Symbiosis was running on PMK.

By the way, welcome!

[zslane]

Thank you very much!

I would never have thought I'd become obsessed with my computer keyboard...

[chzel]

Keyboards....
They soon will be keyboards!
For SA I'd go with MX blacks.

[fohat]

I continue to be perplexed when people say that they want linear switches with clickiness but no tactility.

Personally, I love and need crisp tactile feedback and consider clicky sound to be a mildly unfortunate but generally unavoidable by-product of it.

[Redmaus]

I continue to be perplexed when people say that they want linear switches with clickiness but no tactility.

Personally, I love and need crisp tactile feedback and consider clicky sound to be a mildly unfortunate but generally unavoidable by-product of it.

mx blue click = ick! Sounds like something keeps breaking in the switch!

Model F ping = Absolutely glorious

[Muirium]

Linear is a perfectly legitimate taste in switches. I quite like them myself. Not as much as clicky IBM or tactile Topre, but the more kinds of switches alive and well the merrier.

[Redmaus]

Linear is a perfectly legitimate taste in switches. I quite like them myself. Not as much as clicky IBM or tactile Topre, but the more kinds of switches alive and well the merrier.

Right now I would love some alps yellow switches...

[zslane]

The only sound I want to hear is the key bottoming out, and even with that there are ways to mute it so it isn't an annoying, click-clacky mess. A gentle "thok" at the end of its travel is all I need to hear. Same goes for tactile response; the key coming to a stop is all the tactile feedback I need. I'm a fairly light touch typist, so it's not like I'm mashing the keys or anything. A soft linear switch that lets me bottom out with minimal effort and minimal key impact seems ideal.

Thanks again to you, Muirium, for the Space Cadet tip. I was able to successfully place the order. Now the interminable waiting begins...

In the mean time I have my Dolch set on order and, hopefully, on its way soon. I also have a quote out to SP for my own variant on Space Cadet (with symbols on many of the modifier keys, inspired by the Granite set). I only need two keyboards, but I may end up with 3 or 4 before all is said and done (and that's assuming I don't fall in love with some other keycap set along the way). Oy veh...

[chzel]

Have you ever gone the other way? Heavier linears instead of lighter?
MX Blacks for example. I'm not the nimblest of typists and definitely not a touch typist, but the weight of the Blacks helps me get a better cadence by not really bottoming out, just a kind of "touch and go", if even that.

[seebart]

Sounds to me like you might like linear space invaders. Of course they're not nearly as available as MX blacks.

[chzel]

They are high in my "to try" list!

[seebart]

I only own one keyboard with space invaders but when I got it the uniform feel of the switch in travel and also across the board struck me. Considering its a 25 year old piece of hardware that says a lot for the switch. As far as I could tell during disassembly a spring mod should be possible also if the right springs can be found. I own that same Commodore PC keyboard with MX blacks from 1985. The space invaders feel nicer!

[Chyros]

Hello and welcome to DT!

Sounds to me like you might like linear space invaders.

Yeah, that's what I thought of immediately, too. Very nice linear feel and a very soft bottoming out noise.

Zslane, I made a review about an ancient keyboard with linear space invaders in it a while ago. Skip the review of the board itself; it's obviously not the kind of layout and stuff you want (and it's extremely rare to find one anyway) but at 9:41 is a bit where I talk about the sound of the switches and right at the end is a typing demonstration that gives an impression of what the switches sound like. They sound softer than rubber domes, although the space bar is more of a normal loudness:

[Muirium]

Space invaders also solve the keycap addiction hazard: they're bloody impossible to find new caps for! Alas, they're also mostly antiquated layouts too. Big Ass enter was much too popular back then. I like the clicky black ones myself, and luckily got a nice ISO board of them with pretty dyesubs:


http://deskthority.net/review-f45/nmb-r ... t8469.html

The clicky blacks are quite heavy though. How are the linears, against MX black and red?

[seebart]

The white one eyed linears I own are medium heavy and super smooth and uniform in feel. A thocky sound on bottom out. Really nice. I need to get some clicky blacks sometime. But those are almost unobtanium. Its actually possible to modify the spring on the linears and make them clicky also.

[Muirium]

Far from unobtainable. In America at least:

http://deskthority.net/post244880.html#p244880

Trouble is they're all big ass enter. I have one of those too and a project to chop it to TKL and rejigger it to ANSI. But that depends on custom caps. Which do not yet exist.

[Chyros]

The white one eyed linears I own are medium heavy and super smooth and uniform in feel. A thocky sound on bottom out. Really nice. I need to get some clicky blacks sometime. But those are almost unobtanium. Its actually possible to modify the spring on the linears and make them clicky also.

^Yeah as Muir said they're really not uncommon, I've found there's usually at least one on eBay at any time. Anyway, you ought to find my review in that topic of interest .

[Redmaus]

I actually have one for sale with clicky black space invaders. And I ship international.

PM me.

[seebart]

Yeah i know they're available. I think XMIT has some for sale. Still, they don't show up that often. AND Redmaus of course.

[Muirium]

Unobtainium is a strong word. An ANSI space invader board is hard to come by, aye. But the clicky blacks with fat arse are quite abundant now.

[seebart]

Right. Of course I'd want ISO which is somewhat rare.

[Muirium]

Mine is the only one I know. It's also nicer than my later model, thanks not just to layout but the multi coloured dyesub caps.

[zslane]

Chyros, that was a very interesting demo. I didn't realize how wobbly Cherry MX switches were. Well, not much to be done about it. I want my SP keycaps, so...

[zslane]

My first keyboard project is now complete. A Filco Majestouch-2 104 (MX-Reds) with DSA Dolch keycaps from Signature Plastics. First impressions are that the MX Reds are actually more resistant than I expected, but maybe that is because they need a bit of a break in period. And I'm sure that all my time spent typing on the cheap, mushy membrane keyboard makes this one feel stiff by comparison. Nevertheless, I love the way these switches feel and sound (i.e., silent). The sound these DSAs make when they bottom out in the Filco is just right. It's not a high-pitched clack, but more of a mid-range thock, which is exactly what I was hoping for. And I love the color combination of the keys.

[seebart]

Looks nice, congrats!