deskthority

Hi there,

I want to buy some replacement caps (blank) for my Model M. I know there is Unicomp (http://unicomp.com) and Fentek Industries (http://www.fentek-ind.com/keys.htm).

I read several threads where people talking about the poor quality of the Unicomp products. I know they are cheap, but most of them look really ugly (for reference: http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/uni ... t2211.html) and not worth even 20 USD for me...

Then, there is Fentek. I never heard of them and the order process seems to be really complicated.

What do you guys think? Please share some experiences

Fentek has some insanely high MOQ iirc. While unicomp's caps arent't on par with original IBM ones, they pretty much are your sole option.

hKing wrote: ↑ I read several threads where people talking about the poor quality of the Unicomp products. I know they are cheap, but most of them look really ugly

Don't listen to the Unicomp haters out there. It is a good honest company with excellent prices (domestic US).

Besides, nobody else makes buckling spring blanks and the vast majority of complaints are about the printing of the legends, anyway.

I have had fairly good results with Unicomp. They are especially good as a source for blanks. If you need lettered caps, there are often good deals on standard and Model M and M-122 keyboards from eBay and other sources. Clickeykeyboards.com also appears to be still in business, and they have a few keycaps for sale (Iettered as well as just plain stems, but apparently no blanks)

So in what way are these Unicomp caps so extremely terrible? It's still dyesub PBT, right? Oo

The printing on them seems to be not as high quality as the original keycaps.
Somehow posted a comparison with OG APL keycaps and the APL caps from Unicomp, and you could clearly see the difference when compared directly.
Overall I would say they are very good, as you said still Dyesub PBT!

Here are some examples of keycaps that I put on my IBM XT:
The colored caps, Fn, and Command were made by Unicomp. Others were either harvested from M-122 boards or were the original XT caps.
Likewise, on the right side of the board, the blank, colored caps, Command and Fn were made by Unicomp. Others were harvested from M-122s or were native XT caps.

The weighting and alignment of legends were often not as good on Unicomp caps as original IBMs, but I was pleased with the 1x green return key and the light blue Fn keys. Blanks and colored keys turned out well, but I was not as pleased with the Command keys.

Chyros wrote: ↑So in what way are these Unicomp caps so extremely terrible? It's still dyesub PBT, right? Oo

The molds are not the same as the originals, or if they are, they have worn substantially. The edges of the key buttons themselves are not nearly as sharp as the originals.

The dye sublimation process may also be performed using aging equipment (this is my hypothesis). The legends are not as bold or as crisp as the originals. Sometimes, especially for custom legends, they are not horizontally, vertically, or rotationally centered, either.

The only option available are two piece caps.

Hypersphere's photo is nice as it directly contrasts original 1980s key caps against the recent Unicomp offering.

They are the only option in town unless you can figure out a way to meet Fentek's MOQ. (Group buy anyone?) The APL key caps are very nice! The real thing is nicer still.

Yup. Also note that the "pebble" (mod) colour is a bit off from the original. Certainly is on my ANSI modded AT.

I see... Yeah, that is noticeable. I guess if you're a perfectionist it's better to buy replacements off an actual IBM model.

hKing wrote: ↑Hi there,

I want to buy some replacement caps (blank) for my Model M. I know there is Unicomp (http://unicomp.com) and Fentek Industries (http://www.fentek-ind.com/keys.htm).

I read several threads where people talking about the poor quality of the Unicomp products. I know they are cheap, but most of them look really ugly (for reference: http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/uni ... t2211.html) and not worth even 20 USD for me...

Then, there is Fentek. I never heard of them and the order process seems to be really complicated.

What do you guys think? Please share some experiences

The problem with unicomp is the sliders, the mouldings are getting worn out now and the plastic they use is not as good. If your just replacing the top part of the cap you will be fine. Printing is ht and miss. The APL set i got was amazing , but some of the custom caps i got ( 1.5 backspace) , was crap and then the 1x1 windows key i ordered was printed on a 1 part cap and feels better than IBM 2 part caps.

Oh, i know you want blanks, but if you ever do want printed caps , buy a bigfoot XT and steal the caps , nothing beats XT style caps for feel and printing.

Funny, to me the 2 part caps feel much better.

Better texture yes but the feel and sound is superior imo for the one parts. I think of it like thick vs thin cherry caps, if makes about the same difference.

The fact that most 1 part caps are older and most likely built to a higher spec when the tools where brand new will have and impact as well i think.

The lettering there is no comparison the 1 part XT caps are beautiful.

Hm, maybe I'll give them a shot and try those blanks from Unicomp...

XMIT wrote: ↑ The dye sublimation process may also be performed using aging equipment (this is my hypothesis).

Did I hear that they got some new dye-sub equipment and improved their quality last spring?

I have not bought any caps from them recently.

fohat wrote: ↑

XMIT wrote: ↑ The dye sublimation process may also be performed using aging equipment (this is my hypothesis).

Did I hear that they got some new dye-sub equipment and improved their quality last spring?

I have not bought any caps from them recently.

My comments were in regards to some key caps I proxied for jou back in the summer. I was bemused by the quality. Maybe jou can share some photos.

hKing wrote: ↑Hi there,

I want to buy some replacement caps (blank) for my Model M. I know there is Unicomp (http://unicomp.com) and Fentek Industries (http://www.fentek-ind.com/keys.htm).

I read several threads where people talking about the poor quality of the Unicomp products. I know they are cheap, but most of them look really ugly (for reference: http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/uni ... t2211.html) and not worth even 20 USD for me...

Then, there is Fentek. I never heard of them and the order process seems to be really complicated.

What do you guys think? Please share some experiences

What are you after? I have some blank black keycaps for sale... PM me.

Thanks for your input Shiva, but I want to buy caps with the original color (not black)!

hKing wrote: ↑Thanks for your input Shiva, but I want to buy caps with the original color (not black)!

I seem to remember Unicomp selling unprinted pearl/pebble sets at a good price.

You should buy them, it is really your only reasonable option.

Put the new caps on the old stems and you should be happy.

When you get full keycap set from Unicomp, are the necessary stabilizer inserts included with it, or must they be ordered separately?

Separately.

They're usually already installed in the keyboard. But you can buy spares from Unicomp. Bear in mind the difference between black and white inserts. One kind is for horizontal keys while the other is for vertical (like numpad Enter and perhaps ISO Return but I'm an ANSI TKL guy so I don't use them!) I don't recall which is which.

Not an official supplier, but this guy is selling all the keycaps separately, 2 euro a piece, from a single Model M from Ebay Germany.

http://www.ebay.es/itm/einzelne-Tasten- ... 1976894842.

I already bought the feet, and didn't buy the spacebar as it is an ABS one.

Muirium wrote: ↑Separately.

Thanks. Black should be a vertical insert, and white should be a horizontal.

I know this reply is really late, but my Unicomp keycaps are too short, nothing wrong with the printing at all, they are just noticeably shorter than genuine IBM caps, they also rock from side to side constantly and they bottom out right after the tactile bump, which basically ruins the whole point of the switch. If you want good keycaps for buckling springs I suggest finding original ones and not Unicomps, not to hate on Unicomp, but the keycaps do in fact have issues, or at least the new ones do.

I guess since this was bumped I'll throw in my tangential two cents.

The people who work at Unicomp are genuine and honest. I respect them for trying and I really wish them the best. Because of this I always try to go to Unicomp first when I need something, but I often don't make a purchase because Unicomp as a company is poorly managed.

I want to make this distinction before I list my thoughts because I think there's a difference between good people and a good product.

-I wish that Unicomp as a whole would put more emphasis on servicing older keyboards. For example, if I need to buy a new ribbon cable for my lock lights, it's not a quick fix like it would seem, it's actually time for a full bolt mod since I have to buy their all in one membrane and completely rip everything apart just to fix the lock lights. For many people this is quite daunting. Unicomp also doesn't also offer any sort of servicing or restoration for Model F keyboards, which in my opinion is a crying shame and a missed business opportunity. With the prices that model Fs go for these days I'm sure there are many people who would invest large amounts of money to restore their model F with new flippers and barrels, not to mention for new PCBs, modern conversions, etc. I'm sure the convenience of the service could justify a good profit margin. Instead Unicomp puts a lot of emphasis in their inferior newer keyboards which as far as I know offer nothing over the original IBM keyboards that I can be had for maybe $10 more on ebay.

-I wish Unicomp would offer reprogrammability on their newer keyboards as a stock feature to give them some sort of impetus for purchase other than: "I want new" because at this point with xwhatsit and soarers, the IBM variants have Unicomp beat eight ways from Sunday.

-I've been seriously deterred every time I've thought about purchasing custom keycaps from them. They look bad, even in the sample pictures and in all the examples I've seen online. The kerning is way off and they're not as dark or bold as the original IBM legends. There's no point in having custom options if every time I throw down money I'm spinning the roulette wheel on quality control.

-Going off that last point, IBM and Lexmark keys are all relatively interchangeable because they all use the same font. If I buy custom keycaps from Unicomp, I have to fully commit to it and buy a full set if I want them all to match. I'm perplexed really that after IBM spent large sums of money on R&D to determine which font and font size was the most legible and pleasing to the eye and used the font successfully on probably the most ubiquitous keyboard ever, that Unicomp would throw all that in the garbage seemingly for very little reason. I get that tooling wears out over time but it seems reasonable to be able to get new tooling in something more similar to the original Helvetica for the former reason as well for compatibility.

-The Unicomp website is cumbersome to navigate and often involves bizarre It feels like I'm purchasing products from a warehouse blowout website rather than from a company that sells premium keyboards.

So yeah, those are my main gripes with Unicomp as a company. Overall though I've been impressed with their customer service and the people who work there have been quite kind. I wish that they would move in a different direction though because I don't see the business getting any bigger with their current focus where it is.

Karmel wrote: ↑

05 Jul 2020, 18:54

they are just noticeably shorter than genuine IBM caps, they also rock from side to side constantly and they bottom out right after the tactile bump

I have not bought from Unicomp in a couple of years, but I have never noticed this.

Are you talking about 1-piece or 2-piece keys?

Karmel wrote: ↑

05 Jul 2020, 18:54

I know this reply is really late, but my Unicomp keycaps are too short, nothing wrong with the printing at all, they are just noticeably shorter than genuine IBM caps, they also rock from side to side constantly and they bottom out right after the tactile bump, which basically ruins the whole point of the switch. If you want good keycaps for buckling springs I suggest finding original ones and not Unicomps, not to hate on Unicomp, but the keycaps do in fact have issues, or at least the new ones do.

The one piece keycaps are always going to be shorter than the two piece ones. On my old '86 Model M, this is pretty noticeable as I have a few caps that are one piece on it.

One thing that has certainly changed over the years on the two piece caps are the stems.

'86 stem, '92 stem, and a 2020 stem that I recently purchased from Unicomp. It should be noted that although the Unicomp stem looks a lot more rough than the previous two, it's perfectly smooth. Interestingly, though, the '92 stem and the 2020 stem are NOT smooth at all on a Model F, but incredibly scratchy. On the other hand, my '86 stem works perfectly fine on my Model F. This seems to be consistent for me. Wonder if anyone else has had similar results.

I've heard theories that F barrels are rough so the stems are smooth to compensate, and that M barrels are smooth so that the caps don't have to be. SO if you use M caps on F barrels you get the worst of both worlds. I haven't seen anyone take an in-depth look at this so IDK if it is accurate, but this is what I have heard

If one of them is particularly more rough than the other, wouldn't that wear away the smooth one?

That is a good point, Fs are older so if there is wear involved then you would expect them to be smooth on both the barrels and the caps, but it appears to be just the caps that are smooth. Someone who owns more Ms and Fs and also knows a bit about the plastics involved should really look into it. Elipse might have some insight here but it is likely only related to Fs and not Ms.

To answer OP: Cindy has caps although you may need to email about them if they are not listed: https://elecshopper.com/