deskthority

Does such a thing exist?

I've been looking around lately, and can't seem to find any wireless mechanical keyboards. Are there technical reasons for this?

I need a new desk and am considering buying a glass one, so I don't want wires trailing everywhere, and I move my current keyboard around often enough that a wired keyboard isn't really an option. I use a 46" TV as a monitor, so I have a habit of leaning back in my chair and using mousekeys when browsing, as one example.


Dream keyboard:

• MX Red Switches
• Compact layout similar to Noppoo Choc Mini (love the f-key positioning)
• ISO (UK) keys (though I will concede that the @ position should still be on 2)
• Wireless (probably bluetooth to avoid a USB dongle, and 4.0 is now 6ms latency compared to 100+)
• Backlit keys (that don't buzz like the BlackWidow when dimmed)
• Solar Charging
• 6+ KRO
• Mac compatible

Obviously I'm not going to find anything like that, though you would expect that at least one company out there—possibly one of the bigger gaming companies—would have something that ticks off most of the things on that list.

The best I can find tick off two, maybe three items on that list, none of them being wireless.

Apparently Filco had a wireless keyboard before. But I haven't seen it sold anywhere.

http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=495

Thanks. Unfortunately it's using Bluetooth 2.0 which has a noticeable (100ms+) lag when gaming.
Logitech products using the unifying receiver are 8ms, with gaming-class devices being under that. Razer's gaming-grade wireless is now down to 1ms, I believe. Not sure about anything else.

With mice there is a definite benefit going from 125Hz USB polling to 500Hz (2ms)
That's one advantage of wired keyboards—I believe PS/2 is interrupt-based rather than polled so inputs are realtime.

I got two filco wireless,
all broke within a year,
it has some problems with wireless signal sender,
that is the official reason why filco stopped making them two years ago.
IONE claimed they would produce some earlier this year..
but nothing happens so far....

Would never trust wireless for gaming. Maybe in 10 years technology will be at a point where it is as fail-proof as wired but not now.

I wouldn't trust wireless for typing either, but that's just me. The only thing I would use a wireless keyboard for is an HTPC, and even then, I would get a small, cheap one for that.

Alternate solution:
Get a USB hub and a keyboard with a detachable cable. Replace the stock cable with one that is shorter and doesn't have a lot of slack. You can then stay neat and wired.

Also, most wireless commuication is not encrypted. The only wireless keyboard I know that encrypts wireless transmission is from Mircrosoft. There are probably others on the market that do encryption.

Clickey wrote:Would never trust wireless for gaming. Maybe in 10 years technology will be at a point where it is as fail-proof as wired but not now.

Modern 2.4GHz wireless technology is suitable for gaming.

• The Xbox 360 wireless controllers have a 4ms response.
• Logitech's standard wireless (unifying receiver) is 8ms and their gaming wireless devices are advertised as being polled at 1000Hz. (which should be 1ms, but is not specified)
• Razer's advertises 1ms response with the new Mamba.

Hell, most people don't seem to notice any kind of delay with the PS3 controllers and they use Bluetooth.

I believe that means it has to be at least 100ms delay, though they switch to wired communication when you plug in a USB cable. Only the newly released Bluetooth 4.0 offers low latency. (6ms)

This is the only thing stopping me from buying a Nav Con to use instead of a keyboard when gaming. (analogue movement + mouse for aiming is the best of both worlds)

itlnstln wrote:I wouldn't trust wireless for typing either, but that's just me. The only thing I would use a wireless keyboard for is an HTPC, and even then, I would get a small, cheap one for that.

This is a HTPC, hence the 46" display. I don't want multiple keyboards though. The small remote-sized keyboards & trackpads are all fairly useless, and I don't like most HTPC front-end software anyway. You spend more time configuring things in it and getting album art than watching films or playing games.

The reason I use a HTPC is because of the storage options and image quality improvements. I don't really care for pretty menus etc.

itlnstln wrote:Alternate solution:
Get a USB hub and a keyboard with a detachable cable. Replace the stock cable with one that is shorter and doesn't have a lot of slack. You can then stay neat and wired.

As mentioned, I am looking to buy a glass desk. The point is to get rid of the cable clutter.

I currently have an older Microsoft wireless keyboard which I am using (not mechanical, and really showing its age now) and a wired Razer Deathadder. The only reason I still have the Deathadder is because I can't find a wireless mouse which uses a sensor that doesn't have built-in acceleration. All the latest laser sensors have about 5% forced acceleration no matter what the driver settings tell you.

If anything, I would be likely to buy a longer cable if I had a wired keyboard, because I really do need to be able to pull it away from the desk. I have this problem with headphones. I tried all the latest wireless ones available at the beginning of the year, and they're universally terrible, so I have to stick with wired headphones and a long enough cable that I can walk anywhere in the room without taking the headphones off.

litster wrote:Also, most wireless commuication is not encrypted. The only wireless keyboard I know that encrypts wireless transmission is from Mircrosoft. There are probably others on the market that do encryption.

It's really not a concern for me. The walls here are so thick that I have trouble getting good WiFi coverage (which is now all 5GHz, so it wouldn't interfere with the keyboard) and I use a password manager so I am never typing in a password that is of use to anyone without physical access to my machines.

There IS a Wireless Mechanical made by iOne. It's just nobody ever buys it.

http://www.fentek-ind.com/mechanical-wireless.htm

$269!!! For that money get the AES Encrypted Microsoft Wireless 2000.

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-M7J-000 ... B004SUO1QM

Hell, get 7 of them and still have change.

Or the $109 Xarmor U9W soon to be rebranded Qpad or some such nonsense.

http://www.amazon.com/XArmor-U9W-wirele ... B004S862FW

2 reviews. A product searching for a market.

I like the K400 myself.


If the the keyfeel is as good as the Google TV Revue keyboard they have a real winnah!

That right Shift key is a real fail-yuh.

I never use Rshift.

I should. But I don't.

Mavis Beacon is my bitch.

ripster wrote:There IS a Wireless Mechanical made by iOne. It's just nobody ever buys it.

No wonder, seems far too expensive, and it's using 916.5MHz RF wireless which will definitely have latency issues at the very least.

ripster wrote:Or the $109 Xarmor U9W soon to be rebranded Qpad or some such nonsense.

http://www.amazon.com/XArmor-U9W-wirele ... B004S862FW

That looks a lot more interesting, though I thought XArmor went out of business a couple of years ago? Hopefully I'll be able to find out more about the wireless technology it was using. There are a lot of gaming-oriented companies that make products that sound good but underperform.

EDIT Looks like it's 2KRO, completely useless for gaming regardless of latency etc.

ripster wrote:I like the K400 myself.
http://www.logitech.com/assets/37072/4/ ... images.png

If I were to get a Logitech board, I'd probably go with that Solar one they put out, but I'm really not a big fan of laptop keys, especially for gaming.

Never found a trackpad for PC that worked well at all. Even the Apple ones, which work brilliantly in OS X, track very poorly in Windows 7. Can't see it being worthwhile to buy a PC board with one stuck to the side. I'm left-handed too, which doesn't help. (left handed with a trackpad, right with a mouse)


I guess you could be right about the XArmor being a product searching for a market. Sounds like the kind of people likely to buy a mechanical keyboard (gamers or people that have been using computers more than just the last 10–15 years) are the most distrusting of newer technologies, even if the latest 2.4GHz wireless stuff is proven technology. The kneejerk reaction seems to be wireless = bad.

Who's afraid of my wireless DataChair?

You guys are so far behind.

(typed while rotating maniacally in his chair)

I wish geekhack wasn't down at the moment so I could link you to a mod post you might find interesting.
Search for wireless Model M once the site is back up. If my memory serves me right the OP used a controller board from a logitech wireless keyboard since the Matrix matched the "regular" model M matrix. Your best bet to get exactly what you want will be to make it yourself. Using MX switches and free wiring them you can recreate the exact matrix of the logitech board allowing you to use the low latency wireless tech you want as well as setting up whatever RKO you need. You could use a nopoo choc mini for a base to start working with, since the mounting plate would allow the rewiring without having to mill a new holding plate.

That vacuum built in the chair is pure win. No more tobacco crumbs under my desk from rolling. Do want!

Use this:
http://www.bluegiga.com/WT12_Class_2_Bluetooth_Module

The vacuum cleaner piping works great. I can swivel my chair, rock back, increase or decrease height, and it always stays flat on the floor and keeps the foot switches in place. Not that I use it anymore, I didn't like the foot switches in the end.

Ascaii wrote:I wish geekhack wasn't down at the moment so I could link you to a mod post you might find interesting.
Search for wireless Model M once the site is back up. If my memory serves me right the OP used a controller board from a logitech wireless keyboard since the Matrix matched the "regular" model M matrix. Your best bet to get exactly what you want will be to make it yourself. Using MX switches and free wiring them you can recreate the exact matrix of the logitech board allowing you to use the low latency wireless tech you want as well as setting up whatever RKO you need. You could use a nopoo choc mini for a base to start working with, since the mounting plate would allow the rewiring without having to mill a new holding plate.

This sounds like a great idea, though I have absolutely no idea how to do any of this, and don't trust that I won't just be ruining two keyboards.

Would there actually be room inside the noppoo for an additional wireless board and batteries even?

webwit wrote:Use this:
http://www.bluegiga.com/WT12_Class_2_Bluetooth_Module

As mentioned previously, Bluetooth prior to 4.0 is not suitable due to 100ms minimum latency. Fine for typing, useless for gaming—and I know that for a fact, as I can add 66ms by changing the display mode on my TV and there is a very noticeable drop in responsiveness.

Awesome chair though.

Wireless USB

NewGuy wrote:

webwit wrote:Use this:
http://www.bluegiga.com/WT12_Class_2_Bluetooth_Module

As mentioned previously, Bluetooth prior to 4.0 is not suitable due to 100ms minimum latency. Fine for typing, useless for gaming—and I know that for a fact, as I can add 66ms by changing the display mode on my TV and there is a very noticeable drop in responsiveness.

I used WT12 to make my HHKB wireless. Yes, the lag is noticeable, but not so severe for typing, I think.
I'm happy now knowing the lag is due to Bluetooth itself not my program fault