deskthority

Just read a thread on GH, basically points to this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyb ... h=c0d10add

Since I managed to get one at around 110€, ANSI layout, new, I start to consider myself kinda lucky.

The reddit thread also hints at why CM didn't sell sliders, even if they showed them in their store: they were waiting for approval from Topre!

yeah, kind of sad, but to be expected. What makes it even sadder is that CM does not have any plans of another topre board in the near future.

We have to wait 2-3 mounth for discounts! I need another one for replacement....

This is one of those things where Novatouch sliders are worth infinity billion dollars in about a decade, presumably.

I doubt it, because the same type of sliders (although likely clear instead of purple) will be in the Realforce RGB.

I know, I asked them for one but they didn't have them anymore Oo . Kinda disappointing really.

Supposedly 150 brand new barebones Novatouch boards at MadePC.com between these two URLs:

http://www.madepc.com/Cooler-Master-Nov ... 062-00.htm
http://www.madepc.com/Cooler-Master-Nov ... 069-00.htm

BTW, did anyone play with: https://github.com/vekkt0r/novatools ?

Do I understand correctly, I'd have to buy something like this, right? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Advanced ... 57932.html

I know there's a lot of hate for NovaTouch, but they allowed the Topre gang to start using GMK/SP keys again and sparked a whole new wave of mods. I dunno. I really like mine.

There is a lot of hate for it? I had no idea.

I always liked the idea behind the NovaTouch. But they only made a TKL version and I don't use TKL boards, so it was a useless product for me. Had they offered a full-size, silenced model, I probably would have purchased several.

I bought my first NT when they first came out. Prices were very high then. I got another one after prices had dropped -- better still, a bit later I was able to get the barebones version. I've installed my silencing rings on all three and lubed them as well. Now they sound and feel as good as my RF87U boards, and I have the added bonus of being able to dress them up in variety of Cherry mx keycaps. However, I would probably use my NT boards more often if they were in 60% format -- or maybe even if they were full-size.

It's strange how preferences can evolve. I started out with a full-size Model M, then went to the SSK. This led me to other TKL boards. After mostly rejecting Cherry mx, I wound up with the RF87U and then the HHKB. Thinking I would never go back to a full-size board, here I am typing on a Northgate Omnikey 101 and loving it. Although I like the Omni 101 mainly for its smooth Alps switches, I am starting to appreciate looking at a full array of keys -- I can understand where zslane is coming from!

When the silenced RGB Topre with mx stems was announced, I thought I would never buy one, but with my renewed liking for full-size, I might consider it.

This leaves me wondering what to do with my NT boards -- I will probably need to try out the new Topre with the hybrid stems to see which I like better.

The RealForce RGB has silenced switches? How did I miss that detail?

Actually, I am not sure if the Topre RGB is going to have silencing. I thought I had read this in one of the early announcements, but I just went back to check, and I cannot find anything about silencing. Looks like the main new features are RGB backlighting, variable actuation, and Cherry mx-compatible stems.

Yeah, I don't know about any "hate" with Novatouch - I'm too very happy with mine - if this keyboard didn't exist, I doubt I could have justified myself in having to throw 200€+ on a 2nd Topre keyboard .. (since I already have a HHKB). But another set of mx-compatible sliders/stems, to be able to customize the HHKB, yes, that would have been something!

Hypersphere wrote: ↑Actually, I am not sure if the Topre RGB is going to have silencing. I thought I had read this in one of the early announcements, but I just went back to check, and I cannot find anything about silencing. Looks like the main new features are RGB backlighting, variable actuation, and Cherry mx-compatible stems.

I've spoke to one of the Topre representatives online they told me they had no plans to make a silenced topre for the "RealForce RGB" keyboard. They also told me that he/she will discuss with other "topre people" to see if they will release a TKL and that the keyboard will be available before Christmas season.

@cryptix: Thanks for the news about the RGB Topre! If they are considering doing a TKL version as well as a full-size, I wish they could consider a 60% model. However, perhaps they would rather not compete directly with the HHKB.

I would buy a 60% version as long as the layout was the same as their full-size prototype (i.e., same as my Pok3r). I wonder what the layer programming would be like though.

Regarding hate for the Novatouch, if you go back to the early threads when the keyboard was first introduced, there were many highly critical remarks. As I recall, much of the negativity focused on the noise, especially that of the rattly stabilizers, but there were also critical comments about other aspects of the board, including the choice and placement of the connector, the lack of lock indicator LEDs, and inconsistent looseness of the switch stems. Although many of the negative comments were motivated by a desire to improve the keyboard, I suspect that the negative dialogue contributed to its ultimate demise.

I watched a video review about Novatouch at one point after its release - while I don't have the link, I remember that the problem of the reviewer was that he didn't have many words to describe it - he did say several times that it has awesome switches, so that it was best for typing, but since the guy was used to describe all sorts of gaming keyboards featuring gimmicks like macros, lights, water proof, usb hubs, digital displays and whatnot etc. - that was the whole review. Most of the people buy gaming glittering thrash, and reviewers revolve in the same loop, so they are used to describe products in the same terms.

Maybe the only serious market today (money-wise, from the producer's point of view) for Topre keyboards *is* Asia, but people there trust and buy their own stuff ...

I have never seen any hate, per se. I have seen criticism, sure. Pros and cons compared to Realforce.
I have posted reviews and opinions myself - only to inform future prospective buyers of the keyboard, so that they will know what they will get and what the alternatives are.

Well, if you can't compete with RealForce on quality, you had better compete on price. Given the disparity in quality between the two, I don't think the NovaTouch was priced low enough. Certainly not low enough to gain significant marketplace momentum. Lack of sustainable momentum meant that no other layouts were forthcoming, which led to a stagnant product, which sealed its fate.

I had no particular love or loyalty to the RealForce, and so was not predisposed to disliking (or being disappointed by) the NovaTouch, but its lack of product diversity kept me from ever becoming a customer. But that, in my view, was a strategic failure rather than a product design/manufacturing failure on CoolerMaster's part.

I am quite suprised to see it gone from the market this quickly, as I thought many Cherry keycap fans would buy this at a steady rate and put up with potential issues. Oh well, you win some, you lose some.

I'd wager that the Novatouch was still a very good seller when they cancelled it. The discontinuation might have something to do with Topre wanting to go their own way with the RGB and possibly couldn't keep up with the demand of producing both...It just doesn't make sense to me that they would cancel it when it was clearly a popular keyboard in spite of its minor shortcomings.

I got the same impression, doesn't feel like many shops stock Novatouch keyboards here any more.

CM itself is selling refurbished ISO barebones on their web shop at 99€ and I grabbed ... some ...
All other Novatouch keyboards on their own shop are sold out.

Well this sucks.

Can we buy the tooling for the sliders please !

The more I think about it, the more it feels like this is all part of Topre's big plan.

Let's say you're Topre and sell keyboards for 250$+ and want to keep it that way. Your keyboards are held in very high regards by a lot of people but they are cut off from the great world of custom MX-compatible keycaps. The smart thing to do is make a keyboard that is Cherry MX compatible and see how it sells. Gain some experience with a new concept. Then again, you don't want to be associated with a failed experiment and few people are willing to pay your standard price for something experimental. So you find a third party and let them perform this experiment for you. They can sell the keyboard for way less without ruining your price structure and they will take most of the blame for the shortcomings of the keyboard.

Now - let's assume the experiment was a success ... what you do now is integrate this new technology into your own main product line and make sure the experiment disapears from the market before you launch it as part of your own product lineup ... with some nice extras (RGB) to make sure people don't question the 100% markup.

TL;DR This feels like Topre wanted to experiment with MX compatible stems and needed a third party to put their brand name on the line. It was a success so they sell it for Topre prices now and the CM probably made a nice profit for the risk they took.

By adding 1 and 1 together - (1) the PCB is made by Topre, and (2) we know that CM had to wait for Topre's approval to sell separate sliders/stems - so it does seem probable that also other CM actions with respect to Novtouch could have been mostly steered by Topre. I mean, it's enough they say "sorry, we can't afford producing external PCBs, we have to cut it". Well, I too hope everyone had to gain from this "affair".

Wodan wrote: ↑The more I think about it, the more it feels like this is all part of Topre's big plan.

Let's say you're Topre and sell keyboards for 250$+ and want to keep it that way. Your keyboards are held in very high regards by a lot of people but they are cut off from the great world of custom MX-compatible keycaps. The smart thing to do is make a keyboard that is Cherry MX compatible and see how it sells. Gain some experience with a new concept. Then again, you don't want to be associated with a failed experiment and few people are willing to pay your standard price for something experimental. So you find a third party and let them perform this experiment for you. They can sell the keyboard for way less without ruining your price structure and they will take most of the blame for the shortcomings of the keyboard.

Now - let's assume the experiment was a success ... what you do now is integrate this new technology into your own main product line and make sure the experiment disapears from the market before you launch it as part of your own product lineup ... with some nice extras (RGB) to make sure people don't question the 100% markup.

TL;DR This feels like Topre wanted to experiment with MX compatible stems and needed a third party to put their brand name on the line. It was a success so they sell it for Topre prices now and the CM probably made a nice profit for the risk they took.

Hmm, interesting theory. Actually sounds somewhat reasonable.

002 wrote: ↑I'd wager that the Novatouch was still a very good seller when they cancelled it. The discontinuation might have something to do with Topre wanting to go their own way with the RGB and possibly couldn't keep up with the demand of producing both...It just doesn't make sense to me that they would cancel it when it was clearly a popular keyboard in spite of its minor shortcomings.

My opinion is that it costs too much for a company to import Topre switches from Japan, just like the new Razer Ornata which uses a "Razer Mecha-Membrane" a hybrid membrane rubber dome with a clicky mechanical switch and Cooler Master's "2016 Mem-Chanical" which both is basically a Topre-clone but built in-house rather than importing it (due to cost reasons, i'm assuming).

edit: Also it was officially cancelled before even RealForce RGB was announced apparently

At least tore has an MX mount board now , so its not a huge issue, it just sucks as it was a good price for a decent board.