deskthority

This is a board I've been planning on making for close to a year. I finally sourced all the boards/parts necessary to make it happen.



Small album

The case is from a 10th AE JIS Realforce 91UB. It is the only Topre case I know of that has blockers.

The plate/pcb are from a Realforce 86UW. This is a discontinued board that uses a more standard bottom row. The bottom row is as follows:

1.5 | 1 | 1.5 | 7 | 1.5 | 1 | 1.5

The domes and springs are sourced from a Realforce 87UB EK 45g uniform.

The sliders are from a Novatouch

The board is hypersphere modded and lubed with traxxas 10k dif lube.

GMK stormtrooper is used with the proper, matching GMK 7u spacebar.

Most realforce boards use 6u spacebars which are very hard to find, and completely ruin the aesthetic of a build. Here is my previous attempt without the 86u. The extra 1u key and improper space bar drove me nuts.

UPDATE: I ordered a BKE-2010 about a month ago, and it finally arrived over the weekend. I've got a small album somewhat detailing the process of harvesting the domes from the board. One thing that I found to be interesting is that my domes did not have carbon pads. I've talked to a few others, and their boards had carbon pads on all of the domes. The only domes on my board with carbon pads were the mod domes. Also, my 1u domes are a grayish color, while the mods are more of a bluish color. I was sent a BKE dome by platabear before purchasing the BKE-2010, and his dome is the same bluish color as my mod domes.

And this is where it gets more interesting. I used some nickels to perform some remedial keyboard science, and the domes were different weights. My grayish domes would support 7 nickels before buckling. The bluish 1u dome from platabear would support 8 before buckling, and my bluish modifier domes would support 9 nickels before buckling. This would mean that with the springs, my domes come out to around 40g, while the dome from platabear was 45g, and my modifier domes are 50g. I haven't done any more testing since building the board but I did find it interesting that my domes differed from the two other people I know who have BKE domes.

I am a huge fan of the BKE domes though! They have a much more snappy tactility to them, and buckle much different than all my other topre boards. The only thing left I'm considering for this board is a detachable cable mod, but the board is currently used as my daily driver at home, and rarely gets unplugged so I don't see much of a purpose in doing that mod anytime soon.

Really nice. I don't think I've seen a 10th AE JIS Realforce 91UB here before.

Any reason why you just didn't use domes and springs from 86UW?

The plate/pcb are from the board I bought from you seebart

And alh84001 the reason I didn't use the domes/springs from the 86uw is that it was variable weight. I've got a thing for 45g uniform topre. My first keyboard was a 55g realforce, and a few months later I got a 45g EK realforce, and the 55g ended up getting shelved and eventually sold.

I even tried swapping the 55g domes into my HHKB for a while, thinking that the plastic plate might make them feel different but i still wasn't a fan.

I'm currently on the lookout for sony BVE domes. I've got one on the escape key of this board that a friend sent, and absolutely love it. In the case that I do find some, this board will be getting those domes instead of the normal 45g domes that are in there now.

That's what I thought. I tried 55g for the first time just the other day, and I wasn't pleased compared to my HHKB.

For the plebs, what's so different about BVE domes?

alh84001 wrote: ↑That's what I thought. I tried 55g for the first time just the other day, and I wasn't pleased compared to my HHKB.

For the plebs, what's so different about BVE domes?

BVE domes are from an old sony editing board that are still 45g weight, but much more tactile than other topre domes.

PerniciousPony wrote: ↑The plate/pcb are from the board I bought from you seebart

I was going to ask...

I'd say that's quite an upgrade to what I sold you.

PerniciousPony wrote: ↑

alh84001 wrote: ↑That's what I thought. I tried 55g for the first time just the other day, and I wasn't pleased compared to my HHKB.

For the plebs, what's so different about BVE domes?

BVE domes are from an old sony editing board that are still 45g weight, but much more tactile than other topre domes.

Have you compared their thickness to normal domes? I always thought they are just normal Topre domes, which got stiffer over time. i have heard of the same effect from users with old HHKBs.

Nice man -- love it.
I love the a e s t h e t i c s of the 84U but honestly I use the Windows key way too much to let it go.
By the way, rzwv did an 84U on the "cheap" (and I use that term loosely as we're talking Topre here)...check it out: http://kbd.rzw.jp/topre/realforce84/

nastrovje wrote: ↑

PerniciousPony wrote: ↑

alh84001 wrote: ↑That's what I thought. I tried 55g for the first time just the other day, and I wasn't pleased compared to my HHKB.

For the plebs, what's so different about BVE domes?

BVE domes are from an old sony editing board that are still 45g weight, but much more tactile than other topre domes.

Have you compared their thickness to normal domes? I always thought they are just normal Topre domes, which got stiffer over time. i have heard of the same effect from users with old HHKBs.

They are thicker. The first dude to use them (on GH - i forget the name) has a comparison shot.

That is epic!
I want to mod my Rf105 too. Is it easy with those cherry mx slider around from China? I heard the mods are not easy to make it work.

Orpheo wrote: ↑That is epic!
I want to mod my Rf105 too. Is it easy with those cherry mx slider around from China? I heard the mods are not easy to make it work.

There's two options for sliders from China, the ones that they use in the Plum electrostatic keyboards (those Topre knockoff boards) and the newly released JTK sliders. JTK are more expensive but actually support stabilised keys, but you have to drill out holes in the plastic slider housings for the Cherry stems to pass through, or remove the stabiliser stems from the Cherry caps. Also I have seen people have noted some problems with the JTK sliders over on GH: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77 ... msg2400477
BTW I tried novatouching my FC660C and you get a lot more upstroke clack. So I imagine it might be similar with these sliders too, so just be wary of that if you don't like that kinda clack!

Stabilized wrote: ↑

Orpheo wrote: ↑That is epic!
I want to mod my Rf105 too. Is it easy with those cherry mx slider around from China? I heard the mods are not easy to make it work.

There's two options for sliders from China, the ones that they use in the Plum electrostatic keyboards (those Topre knockoff boards) and the newly released JTK sliders. JTK are more expensive but actually support stabilised keys, but you have to drill out holes in the plastic slider housings for the Cherry stems to pass through, or remove the stabiliser stems from the Cherry caps. Also I have seen people have noted some problems with the JTK sliders over on GH: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=77 ... msg2400477
BTW I tried novatouching my FC660C and you get a lot more upstroke clack. So I imagine it might be similar with these sliders too, so just be wary of that if you don't like that kinda clack!

And don't forget to get 101 case!

Wow, the 101 case is gorgea!
Seems like the JTK sophomore is not on sale anymore...

Are the chinese ones problematic?

I see I will have to drill the plastic for the stabilizer posts to pass through, it's not that big of a deal I guess!

The RF105 has a PCB that may not be compatible with the RF101 case it seems. I wonder what 6U spacebar option do I have ?!! I think I am screwed as I don't have any cherry 6u! O_O

As for the stabilized chinese ones like this : https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/product ... 20843.html
Does it look OK?

This looks really great!

Orpheo wrote: ↑Seems like the JTK sophomore is not on sale anymore...

Are the chinese ones problematic?

As for the stabilized chinese ones like this : https://fr.aliexpress.com/store/product ... 20843.html
Does it look OK?

The thread I linked for was for JTK sophomore, but if you go to the last couple of pages people are talking about the JTK sliders and they finally shipped after years of waiting.
Some people have problems with them, I would recommend looking through the forum as some people are saying that the bottom out sound is really harsh and others that the keycaps come off very easily.

002 wrote: ↑Nice man -- love it.
I love the a e s t h e t i c s of the 84U but honestly I use the Windows key way too much to let it go.
By the way, rzwv did an 84U on the "cheap" (and I use that term loosely as we're talking Topre here)...check it out: http://kbd.rzw.jp/topre/realforce84/

Yeah I was kinda hoping I was the first to make an 84U but found that link when gathering parts. By simply not using the JIS anniversary case you could keep the 101 layout with the windows keys. I personally like the look of boards with blockers, so that's why I went with that case.

Also, I should have some JTK sliders arriving in the next few days, so I can update you guys here on what I think about them. This imgur album has some good science on them versus novatouch. And here is the reddit OP that I pulled the album from. From what I understand so far is that they are slightly more wobbly than novatouch sliders, but also a bit taller. Them being taller is very good news because GMK on a HHKB would have the caps prematurely bottom out on the plastic plate which led to a very unpleasant clack sound. With the taller JTK sliders this should be eliminated on the HHKB(Novatouch sliders don't seem to have this issue on a Realforce).

nastrovje wrote: ↑

PerniciousPony wrote: ↑

alh84001 wrote: ↑That's what I thought. I tried 55g for the first time just the other day, and I wasn't pleased compared to my HHKB.

For the plebs, what's so different about BVE domes?

BVE domes are from an old sony editing board that are still 45g weight, but much more tactile than other topre domes.

Have you compared their thickness to normal domes? I always thought they are just normal Topre domes, which got stiffer over time. i have heard of the same effect from users with old HHKBs.

The BKE domes are different on a fundamental level. The domes don't use capacitance like all other topre boards, but instead uses a conductive membrane that is pressed against the pcb contact by this protrusion on the bottom of the dome.

For use in other boards, this center piece needs to be cut out to allow for the conical springs to be used. I think that the shape makes for a sharper snap in actuation, and hence the different feel versus other 45g topre domes.

Thanks for your share of experiment! I contacted Bunnylake and will have some JTK sliders arriving soon too. I wanted this since the day I bought my Rf105. Because in all honesty the keycaps just aren't pretty even though they do feel nice.

Not bad, I'd keep the windows keys but over all not bad.

That's one really great keyboard mod!

Madhias wrote: ↑That's one really great keyboard mod!

Thanks

And I found a BKE-2010 for domes, they should be arriving in the next few weeks, so this board will be all apart again soon. That should be the last mod going into the board though as I can't think of anything else I'd want to do to it.

I just finished installing BKE-2010 domes on this board and have updated the OP. I'm not sure if anyone here has any experience with BKE domes, but I'd love to hear from others as my domes appear to be different than other BKE-2010 boards.

I have a BKE-2010 and a BKE-2011.
The 2010 has the domes without the carbon pad, and the 2011 has them.

I discussed it briefly with Daniel and some others a few years ago here.

My theory on the reason goes back to the Sony NEWS NWS-1200 portable. I think what happened was that Topre produced this carbon-contact keyboard without a membrane for this portable computer first. The carbon pads would make contact directly with the traces on the PCB. I would guess that for reliability reasons (in particular, chattering), they probably introduced the carbon-coated membrane and simply used up the remaining stock of the carbon-coated domes. Here's a page on the NWS portable that lends some weight to my theory. In the opening sentence, the author describes the keyboard on the NWS-1200 as being prone to frequent chattering issues.

PerniciousPony wrote: ↑I just finished installing BKE-2010 domes on this board and have updated the OP. I'm not sure if anyone here has any experience with BKE domes, but I'd love to hear from others as my domes appear to be different than other BKE-2010 boards.

This is interesting. None of my BKE-2010 domes had carbon pads.

002 wrote: ↑I have a BKE-2010 and a BKE-2011.
The 2010 has the domes without the carbon pad, and the 2011 has them.

I discussed it briefly with Daniel and some others a few years ago here.

My theory on the reason goes back to the Sony NEWS NWS-1200 portable. I think what happened was that Topre produced this carbon-contact keyboard without a membrane for this portable computer first. The carbon pads would make contact directly with the traces on the PCB. I would guess that for reliability reasons (in particular, chattering), they probably introduced the carbon-coated membrane and simply used up the remaining stock of the carbon-coated domes. Here's a page on the NWS portable that lends some weight to my theory. In the opening sentence, the author describes the keyboard on the NWS-1200 as being prone to frequent chattering issues.

That's really interesting! I've never heard of the NSW-1200 before, but your theory totally makes sense. I found it really odd that my board had some with and some without the carbon pads, but using up old stock makes sense. And I rather enjoy the heavier mod domes.