deskthority

This is the keyboard for the Siemens T1200 Teleprinter although from what I have seen there were different versions not sure which mine is, notice that mine does not have the lock at the top left!
Not mine:
There are three different types of Siemens STB switches on this keyboard, all three are tactile with slightly different keyweights, I would estimate the alphas to be at least 55g and the functions keys slightly less.
You can read more about the Siemens STB switches here:

wiki/Siemens_STB
The combination of short key travel, low profile keycaps and plate mount make for a pretty nice keyfeel, bottoming out feels good. The switches are almost silent making a minimal "thocking" noise on the plate, there is no ping whatsoever.

There is not one single screw used in all of the keyboard! The metal plate with the switches slides into the bottom part of the case at two hinges on the bottom and two metal snap-in hinges at the top.

The very thin top part of the case snaps-in to the very sturdy bottom case which is quite pesky to remove without breaking it, worse than Cherry snap-in cases.
End of line.

When you say "short key travel", surely not? The grey ones around the outside are the type I bought in bulk a while ago, which are 2.5 mm travel. The white ones are a full 4 mm travel. It's the first time that I have ever seen the 2.5 mm type used for anything, and since it's used for the cursor keys, that just about counts as proof that they really were used in a keyboard!

It's curious that integrated LED support was removed as of STB 21, hence the STB 11 switch for that. I don't yet understand the fundamental difference between STB 11 and 21.

Then we have all the oddities. Next to Q there are blanks over real keys, as opposed to the blanks over dummy keys. The frames that seem to support the blanks, have a cross mount, which is really odd. After that, you have the plain lazy blank keys, the ignoramus key, and the weird backspace position (which is not far off where the BBC Micro put its backspace key, labelled "Delete").

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑When you say "short key travel", surely not?

Compared to what? For it's age which I also do not know. Remember I have never tried any other Siemens keyboard before ever.

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑Then we have all the oddities. Next to Q there are blanks over real keys, as opposed to the blanks over dummy keys. The frames that seem to support the blanks, have a cross mount, which is really odd. After that, you have the plain lazy blank keys, the ignoramus key, and the weird backspace position (which is not far off where the BBC Micro put its backspace key, labelled "Delete").

Yes when I took it apart for cleaning I also found it odd to have blanks over real keys, combined with the uniform height across the board this could make for a brilliant adaptive layout which I'm sure is not the intention.

I'd say we need OleVoip to have a look at this and give us his two cents.

Here are some interesting links regarding these keyboards:

http://teleprinter.net/english/inhalt/t1_e.shtml

http://www.phantom.sannata.ru/forum/ind ... a=do_print

http://oldcomputer.info/pc/SiemensCT/index.htm

seebart wrote: ↑ Compared to what? For it's age which I also do not know. Remember I have never tried any other Siemens keyboard before ever.

Those white switches are 4 mm, which is full travel. Don't forget that Futaba ML series is 2.5 mm (same as the grey STB 21 switches), Cherry ML and Futaba MD is 3 mm, and Alps SKCL/SKCM is 3.5 mm.

4 mm is nowhere near short travel. RAFI class 2.5 mm upwards as full travel; I'd like to start full travel at 3 mm, but I typed on Futaba ML a lot and never noticed that the switch travel was shallow.

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑

seebart wrote: ↑ Compared to what? For it's age which I also do not know. Remember I have never tried any other Siemens keyboard before ever.

Those white switches are 4 mm, which is full travel. Don't forget that Futaba ML series is 2.5 mm (same as the grey STB 21 switches), Cherry ML and Futaba MD is 3 mm, and Alps SKCL/SKCM is 3.5 mm.

4 mm is nowhere near short travel. RAFI class 2.5 mm upwards as full travel; I'd like to start full travel at 3 mm, but I typed on Futaba ML a lot and never noticed that the switch travel was shallow.

Yes, subjectively perceived built-in the keyboard whilst typing on it ! VERY important point. Not a loose switch in hand. The numbers are important but relative to the actual keyboard experience with the keycaps and the rest. When was the last time you tried Siemens STB in a keyboard Daniel?

Twisting the argument around to discredit me personally is no doubt a logical fallacy.

The fact remains that these switches are designed and specified as 4 mm travel, which is information that was made available a while back by OleVoip. If they subjectively appear not to perform anywhere close to the specification, that is a wholly separate matter. It is however not what you claimed.

A simple test is to compare the white (4 mm) and grey (2.5 mm) switches in that keyboard, since the grey ones are intended to be short travel.

Your overreacting quite a bit. No "twisting" or "discrediting" is intended here. The fact I am arguing if that any keyswitch intended to be used in a keyboard should be evaluated in the keyboard parallel to the specifications on paper. I never claimed the specifications you cite are wrong. I collect keyboards not switches. Deskthority is primarily about mechanical keyboards moreso than loose switches and their specifications on paper.

Nice board! Certainly distinctive looking, with a cool PCB - and I really like that back plate!

OldIsNew wrote: ↑Nice board! Certainly distinctive looking, with a cool PCB - and I really like that back plate!

Thanks, updated the wiki page with some of my pics:

wiki/Siemens_TA-BS/1200

Yes. Congrats. Looks amazing. I was tempted to get one in Ebay a few weeks back but had a keycap missing and didn't know if I could find an adaptor that connector. Maybe next time...

Alpinist wrote: ↑Yes. Congrats. Looks amazing. I was tempted to get one in Ebay a few weeks back but had a keycap missing and didn't know if I could find an adaptor that connector. Maybe next time...

Thanks, as you can mine has two keycaps missing I doubt I`ll ever find replacements for those. But for five Euros I can live with that. An adapter wont do any good here this keyboard is not usable on PC or MAC correct me if I am wrong.

I didn't mean an easy-to-find-off-the-shelf one. I didn't look into it much as there was a key missing on the one I was eyeing, but perhaps one could could be made, if both protocol and connection specs are available somewhere.

Alpinist wrote: ↑I didn't mean an easy-to-find-off-the-shelf one.

WAT ?!? I dont think any of this is "easy-to-find-off-the-shelf".

Alpinist wrote: ↑I didn't look into it much as there was a key missing on the one I was eyeing, but perhaps one could could be made, if both protocol and connection specs are available somewhere.

I guess you could 3D print a keycap. Even if the connection specs are available you will have to convert it.