deskthority

So im not too familiar with keyboards but saw a video on youtube of someone taking out the leaf springs in the keyboard and making the black alps linear switches (too my understanding that means i cant feel the click until i fully press down?) and also a mod to remove tabs on the leaf springs to make them clicky. Im located in Ireland. Ive had no luck finding one of these keyboards. So i kinda have 2 questions. A) is it worth trying to locate one of these and modify them (i dont have a lot of money so wouldnt be willing spending over €30 if thats even possible)? and B)If anyone knows any good places to look for these (importing out of Europe would be too much)?

I should also mention id be completely fine if it was one without a body as im kinda planning on using this as a test keyboard for mods, so id be completely interested in making a new body as i have access to a laser cutter.

ha ! you must be talking about the video that Chyrosran22 made (which is a frendly lad, he's on here, I'm sure he'd be happy to answer your questions if you've got any).

anyway, you can find AT102W for quite cheap, you just have to get some time to find them, they usually aren't liked by the communty because of the Black Alps but as also figured, they are a very good base for modding, the linear mod (the one you describe is quite easy to do and usually makes the keyboard quite a bit better. the clicky mod is usually more tiring, so you'd rather search for a White Alps board as they are also quite common.

If by body you mean the case, then I don't think you'll find one with it, though it's easy to get rid of and if you mess your prototype one you can always count on the sturdy plastic one !

tl;dr You could definitly find one for 30euro, just search on gumtree and ebay and with a bit of luck and time you'll eventually find one

What would be a good low cost keyboard that has the white alps? and how do they differ from the blacks

hmm I don't really know actually because a lot of things is low cost because of luck and time, but you'd be interested in things like the Focus FK2002 or maybe Chicony keyboards, you could take a look at the wiki, go over the switch tab > Brand > Alps > Alps switches > SKCM White and you'd be given a list of many keyboard that have this switch type, right now I'm on my phone so it's not very convenient but I can help you more orecisely any time tomorrow !

wiki/Alps_SKCM_White#Keyboards

Clicky Space Invaders:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RT101- ... Swi7RZNeG3

White Alps:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Focus- ... SweZJaQn7q

thanks for the links but those are in the us so not only do i need to pay 50$ but then also shipping + import tax and it just wouldnt be worth it for me

Haha, bad timing, I just left Ireland and I have two or three AT102Ws just sitting in storage there. We can figure something out next time I'm at home if you want.

Edit: that won't be for a few months (at least) though.

I would yes please, Im down in cork, id gladly pay for shipping

rich1051414 wrote: ↑Clicky Space Invaders:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RT101- ... Swi7RZNeG3

White Alps:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Focus- ... SweZJaQn7q

Winkeyed focus 2001s are usually simplified alps. Steer clear. That is also quite a high price for one of those.

Hiya mate, yeah, that'd be my video . I see Scott has already hooked you up basically already, which is good. The mods you're referring to can either make them linear which means there's no click AT ALL, it just feels like you're pressing down on a coil spring, or clicky which means it'll feel tactile (just like the stock switch, but moreso) and make noticeably more noise.

The clicky mod is unreversible, so you can't go back to the stock tactile switches, but in my opinion it's definitely an improvement. The linear mod IS reversible, and IMO feels even better. I'd recommend trying both on a few switches and then deciding which of the two you want to use .

Hey thanks, yeah the plan was to try out the methods on some switches i wont use too much so if i dont like the clicky mod its only on a certain key. And while i have you i guess, are the matias click switches worth buying. As ive said im planning on doing some modding, will be trying the teensy usb mod and possibly making a new case for it.

Much like scottc, I used to be swimming in AT102Ws (and AT102s) but I got rid of them, not particularly great keyboards.

Alekaei wrote: ↑Hey thanks, yeah the plan was to try out the methods on some switches i wont use too much so if i dont like the clicky mod its only on a certain key. And while i have you i guess, are the matias click switches worth buying. As ive said im planning on doing some modding, will be trying the teensy usb mod and possibly making a new case for it.

Matias switches are a bit different, but by no means bad. They're very tactile, so if you like tactile feedback you'll probably like them. They're a bit clunkier than Alps, but of course they're new which brings a lot of advantages with it. They have a longer lifetime as well, but they don't sound quite as good.

Okay thanks, once i locate a keyboard ill try out the alps and if im curious ill probably buy some tester switches on ebay or something first.

mike52787 wrote: ↑

rich1051414 wrote: ↑Clicky Space Invaders:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-RT101- ... Swi7RZNeG3

White Alps:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Focus- ... SweZJaQn7q

Winkeyed focus 2001s are usually simplified alps. Steer clear. That is also quite a high price for one of those.

The price went up after I linked it. It was $50 when linked, and complicated alps on the 2001's are confirmed to exist, so I would bet it isn't a lie, but you never know when dealing with strangers. Liars can also be well informed enough to convince people to make the wrong assumptions

I don't think $50 is too much for white alps, I think that is actually pretty standard for a complicated white alps keyboard in good condition. Sucks the prices have doubled in the last year or so.

mike52787 wrote: ↑

rich1051414 wrote: ↑
White Alps:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Focus- ... SweZJaQn7q

Winkeyed focus 2001s are usually simplified alps. Steer clear. That is also quite a high price for one of those.

Not a winkeyed 2001! This is an earlier version--bottom row has the blank key on the left, and the backslash on the right.

rich1051414 wrote: ↑
The price went up after I linked it. It was $50 when linked, and complicated alps on the 2001's are confirmed to exist, so I would bet it isn't a lie, but you never know when dealing with strangers. Liars can also be well informed enough to convince people to make the wrong assumptions

I don't think $50 is too much for white alps, I think that is actually pretty standard for a complicated white alps keyboard in good condition. Sucks the prices have doubled in the last year or so.

I wasn't trying to call you a liar, simply pointing out that the focus 2001s without winkey blockers on the bottom row are more likely to be simplified alps or clones. The earlier ones are almost always genuine complicated alps. I have owned both, so I speak from experience.

Polecat wrote: ↑

mike52787 wrote: ↑

rich1051414 wrote: ↑
White Alps:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Focus- ... SweZJaQn7q

Winkeyed focus 2001s are usually simplified alps. Steer clear. That is also quite a high price for one of those.

Not a winkeyed 2001! This is an earlier version--bottom row has the blank key on the left, and the backslash on the right.

Regardless, ones without winkey blockers on the bottom row come with simplified alps or clones in my experience. These look like they have bamboo tops, so it's a toss up between SKBM and late bamboo SKCM whites.

mike52787 wrote: ↑

rich1051414 wrote: ↑
The price went up after I linked it. It was $50 when linked, and complicated alps on the 2001's are confirmed to exist, so I would bet it isn't a lie, but you never know when dealing with strangers. Liars can also be well informed enough to convince people to make the wrong assumptions

I don't think $50 is too much for white alps, I think that is actually pretty standard for a complicated white alps keyboard in good condition. Sucks the prices have doubled in the last year or so.

I wasn't trying to call you a liar, simply pointing out that the focus 2001s without winkey blockers on the bottom row are more likely to be simplified alps or clones. The earlier ones are almost always genuine complicated alps. I have owned both, so I speak from experience.

No, I didn't think you were calling me a liar, but the ebay seller, who stated the keyboard had complicated alps

rich1051414 wrote: ↑

mike52787 wrote: ↑

rich1051414 wrote: ↑
The price went up after I linked it. It was $50 when linked, and complicated alps on the 2001's are confirmed to exist, so I would bet it isn't a lie, but you never know when dealing with strangers. Liars can also be well informed enough to convince people to make the wrong assumptions

I don't think $50 is too much for white alps, I think that is actually pretty standard for a complicated white alps keyboard in good condition. Sucks the prices have doubled in the last year or so.

I wasn't trying to call you a liar, simply pointing out that the focus 2001s without winkey blockers on the bottom row are more likely to be simplified alps or clones. The earlier ones are almost always genuine complicated alps. I have owned both, so I speak from experience.

No, I didn't think you were calling me a liar, but the ebay seller, who stated the keyboard had complicated alps

:facedesk: here's me not reading the description. I have always been one to not trust the ebay descriptions, as many are written by people who want to know what they are talking about but actually don't. You know... all those sellers trying to palm off their SMK alps mount switches as blue alps? yeah, those kind.

whats the difference between complicated and simplified?

"Complicated" Alps (SKCL/SKCM series) together with SKCC and SKCP series, use a "[wiki]Switchplate[/wiki]", a complex sandwich of parts in a pre-assembled module, to provide the switch contacts. "Simplified" Alps (SKBL/SKBM series) uses bare metal contacts. Bare contacts are not wrong as such, but in SKBL/SKBM the feel is nowhere near as clean, smooth and precise — it's a cheapened design without the same level of precision engineering that went into SKCL/SKCM series.

Some clones with bare metal contacts feel far nicer, proving that a "simplified" design can feel good. Whether they have proven reliability is a whole other matter.

would matias switches be simplified?

The term "simplified Alps" originally covered Forward/Alps SKBL/SKBM series and all known clones, but I now only use it for SKBL/SKBM series, simply because Alps did not make the clones! (Some people and businesses persist in using "Alps" to refer to clones.)

Matias switches though are a copy of SKBL/SKBM series, so they are very similar in design to SKBL/SKBM series "simplified Alps".

On the [wiki]Matias switch[/wiki] wiki page you can see a comparison of the internal parts. Back then, the Matias contacts were silver-coloured; now they're the same colour as the SKBL/SKBM parts.

mike52787 wrote: ↑ Regardless, ones without winkey blockers on the bottom row come with simplified alps or clones in my experience. These look like they have bamboo tops, so it's a toss up between SKBM and late bamboo SKCM whites.

Agreed. Back in the day boards with the blank key in the bottom row were not uncommon, and we called that the "Any Key" layout, as in "press any key to continue...". Focus, Monterey, DTK, and probably a couple others came that way for a few years before Win95 came out and windows keys became the standard. So the "any key" boards came first, and would be more likely to have some flavor of SKCM than the winkey ones.