deskthority

Unicomp key cap finishing seems terrible. I have a Model M here, brand new, and the keycaps don't seem to have been inspected as much as you would expect for a keyboard that costs NINENTY POUNDS (ridiculous btw, considering it's not even an original IBM Model M).

What I am talking about is the flashing around the bottom edges of the keycaps (flashing is sharp, excess plastic 'burrs' that should be seen in QC inspection and ground off smooth).

I'm sure the quality control was higher when IBM were making these. I don't know how they have the nerve to charge £90+ for a product which isn't even finished properly. The flashing is visible between the keys, and is sharp and jagged.

Look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/22008695@N ... 594643579/


Back when IBM were making their keyboards, there used to be this incredible notion of "pride in your workmanship", which seems all but lost in this modern age. Unicomp may be churning out the same shapes from the same moulds, but were I the quality control manager at their factory, I'd be expecting the sack for shoddy results such as this.

I feel they're milking the cash cow dry, by charging such an incredibly inflated price, off the back of the Model M's reputation, deservedly earned by IBM, not the purchasers of their tooling (which anyone can do). If you think I'd fall into the trap of being fooled into buying a replica Model M for a premium product price, with a "made in China" appearance - that's all it is, then consider yourself mistaken. I'd pay the same money for a used, battered *genuine* Model M, over this churned out duplicate.

They don't make them like they used to. Literally.

From what I understand, this is due to the age of the molding equipment, at least according to Unicomp. It'd be nice if they'd hire somebody to shave off the excess plastic fringe around the border of both the keys and the frame. Further, the keycaps themselves aren't quite as solid or sturdy as the IBM variant, either. There's more flex to them. The quality isn't up to IBM standards all the way around, but I suppose if one takes it upon themselves to perform a little QC then it's better than nothing.

don't see what the issue here is. if you want someone to inspect every key you must be wiling to pay 200 for a board
but somehow even the 90 are too much?.

glossywhite wrote:Unicomp key cap finishing seems terrible. I have a Model M here, brand new, and the keycaps don't seem to have been inspected as much as you would expect for a keyboard that costs NINENTY POUNDS (ridiculous btw, considering it's not even an original IBM Model M).

You seem to ignore that original model M keyboards came with a computer worth $3000++, so they better be inspected.

If you buy a Unicomp keyboard, you get what you pay for: a working mechanical keyboard, fresh of the line. A prettier keyboard would probably cost $150-200.

Its a non-functional issue really.... If it annoys you just shave it off with a little x-acto knife yourself.Like said, you get what you pay for.

JBert wrote:

glossywhite wrote:Unicomp key cap finishing seems terrible. I have a Model M here, brand new, and the keycaps don't seem to have been inspected as much as you would expect for a keyboard that costs NINENTY POUNDS (ridiculous btw, considering it's not even an original IBM Model M).

You seem to ignore that original model M keyboards came with a computer worth $3000++, so they better be inspected.

If you buy a Unicomp keyboard, you get what you pay for: a working mechanical keyboard, fresh of the line. A prettier keyboard would probably cost $150-200.

And that’s not even 2012 dollars — that’s 1984 dollars. According to Wolfram Alpha that’s about $6,600 at today’s prices.

The only way you’ll get better moulded keycaps is to either make them somewhere that labour costs are very, very low, or pay the same amount in real terms as you would have back in the ’80s. You have to compare apples with apples, not apples with less than half an apple. Since £90 for a keyboard is “ridiculous”, you should probably stick with Made in China keyboards in future…

Sorry, I think I had better re-iterate, as I think you may have got confused:

1/ This keyboard is £90, and I do not find it at all unreasonable to expect a cosmetically well finished product for £90.
2/ The Apple keyboards, both the previous and current generation, £20 and £40 respectively, are both utterly flawless, and finished beautifully; no mould marks. The Cherry G80-3000 I have is £58, and finished very well; no mould marks.

I hardly consider £90 to be a "cheap" keyboard. Unicomp apologists are to be expected on a forum where the general consensus is that the Model M is the keyboard of choice, but even you cannot reasonably and logically argue that shoddy finish like this is acceptable, because I didn't pay ~£3,000 and get the PC that originally came with the IBM Model M, in order to justify the original Model M finish quality?

I'm sure you all spend hundreds on keyboards and parts, being keyboard enthusiasts, but let's forget that and put it to one side for the moment, and get back to reality... this is still costing people NINETY POUNDS.

Someone mentioned that I could expect to pay £200 for a keyboard with acceptable cosmetic finish... so are you telling me that it costs £110 for someone to buff off the edges of a few key caps? No, you can't be - that would be ridiculous.

I really don't want to draw this out too much, but Unicomp's excuses aside, this is still NINETY POUNDS for an unfinished product, and you're still trying to justify that with outlandish logic. I'm not expecting the key caps to be gold plated, I am expecting them to be of as high a quality finish, cosmetically, as a £5 keyboard that one may purchase from Argos or PC World, and they're not, and something is worryingly wrong about this, when a company is milking the reputation of a past product, constructed to a higher standard, and yet not even bothering to ensure that the quality of the product reflects the well documented reputation it is living up to.

It's called "They don't make them like they used to", and this is surely evidence of that. They don't.

I have a biro here which cost 30p, and no mould marks.

Geeks, this is the real world, where real people spend real money, and many of them are NOT Unicomp apologists or keyboard geeks, and they spend their days working hard to provide money for their families, and when they spend £90 on a keyboard, they're going to look at the quality, and justifiably complain when it looks like a cheap knock-off, because of a little tidy-up job that Unicomp skimped on. It would benefit Unicomp massively to lose a few £'s per item, but tighten up the cosmetic appearance of their product so that people wouldn't feel as if they'd been fleeced.

I value this keyboard at £50, £60 maximum, in present condition, considering I have just sealed a deal for TWO IBM Model M's for £60.

Generally speaking, if mechanical keyboard manufacturers overseas pay much lower wages, wouldn't one expect U.S. customers to pay less for them vs. mechanical keyboards manufactured in the U.S. regardless? From that perspective, current mechanical keyboard prices from manufacturers overseas appear rather steep comparatively. Hence, if Unicomp hiked its prices to reflect a change in quality on par with that of most other mechanical keyboard manufacturers overseas, you'd think prices of the latter would be much lower than that of a U.S. manufacturer such as Unicomp, not on par with them, at least given the difference in wages.

1391401 wrote:Generally speaking, if mechanical keyboard manufacturers overseas pay much lower wages, wouldn't one expect U.S. customers to pay less for them vs. mechanical keyboards manufactured in the U.S. regardless? From that perspective, current mechanical keyboard prices from manufacturers overseas appear rather steep comparatively. Hence, if Unicomp hiked its prices to reflect a change in quality on par with that of most other mechanical keyboard manufacturers overseas, you'd think prices of the latter would be much lower than that of a U.S. manufacturer such as Unicomp, not on par with them, at least given the difference in wages.

Overseas? To me at least, overseas is outside Europe.
http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1386

I forgot to mention the nice "pre-worn" look on my space bar, where the textured finish is shiny across the majority of the cap. Not nearly as noticeable, but it's still there. I am told this is PBT shrinkage, and caused by not injecting the plastic into the mould with enough force.

Are there shiny space bars on BNIB *original* IBM Model Ms?


I would like to point out that I am not merely complaining for the sake of it; the Model M I have is a dream to use, I am just slightly surprised at the shoddy finish of the plastics.

kbdfr wrote:

1391401 wrote:Generally speaking, if mechanical keyboard manufacturers overseas pay much lower wages, wouldn't one expect U.S. customers to pay less for them vs. mechanical keyboards manufactured in the U.S. regardless? From that perspective, current mechanical keyboard prices from manufacturers overseas appear rather steep comparatively. Hence, if Unicomp hiked its prices to reflect a change in quality on par with that of most other mechanical keyboard manufacturers overseas, you'd think prices of the latter would be much lower than that of a U.S. manufacturer such as Unicomp, not on par with them, at least given the difference in wages.

Overseas? To me at least, overseas is outside Europe.
http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1386

Although not quoted, my post was directed more at the member (or anyone else) who (would) suggest(ed) that a "prettier" keyboard would cost between $150 - $200 American dollars(I'm assuming).

Oh come on glossy, dont be a prick

Unicomp may not live up to your "perfect apple" standards optically, but I think you are missing the crux of the unicomp (and most people here's) philosophy: Form follows function. Not the other way around. I would prefer a ever so slightly imperfect unicomp over a prettier, though non mechanical keyboard. Unicomp makes the Model M "as they used to". Meaning they hand assemble the bastards and make sure they click and function. That is good enough for me, and the other 99% of unicomp's customers. If the imperfections bother you that much just send it back and ask for a refund or sell it so someone here or on geekhack. To me, imperfections make up a large part of the charme of a vintage or vintage-esque Keyboard.

This isn't meant as a flamewar or personal attack, sorry if it sounds a little strong.

Ascaii wrote:Oh come on glossy, dont be a prick

Unicomp may not live up to your "perfect apple" standards optically, but I think you are missing the crux of the unicomp (and most people here's) philosophy: Form follows function. Not the other way around. I would prefer a ever so slightly imperfect unicomp over a prettier, though non mechanical keyboard. Unicomp makes the Model M "as they used to". Meaning they hand assemble the bastards and make sure they click and function. That is good enough for me, and the other 99% of unicomp's customers. If the imperfections bother you that much just send it back and ask for a refund or sell it so someone here or on geekhack. To me, imperfections make up a large part of the charme of a vintage or vintage-esque Keyboard.

This isn't meant as a flamewar or personal attack, sorry if it sounds a little strong.

Please don't launch into a torrent of personally directed insults and profanity, and then attempt to cover up & pretend you're being civil in the last sentence. You still haven't given a reasonable and logical justification for the cosmetic flaws... because there isn't one. Being irritated at me, and handling it badly, still doesn't alter the fundamental facts of the topic.

Yes, maybe I'll sell it here, and charge a little extra for personally finishing off the key caps to an acceptable standard

When you have calmed down, maybe try to re-explain. Thanks mate.

glossywhite wrote:Yes, maybe I'll sell it here, and charge a little extra for personally finishing off the key caps to an acceptable standard

Exactly, so what're you complaining about? This is a money making opportunity.

glossywhite wrote:

Ascaii wrote: [...] This isn't meant as a flamewar or personal attack, sorry if it sounds a little strong.

Please don't launch into a torrent of personally directed insults and profanity, and then attempt to cover up & pretend you're being civil in the last sentence. You still haven't given a reasonable and logical justification for the cosmetic flaws... because there isn't one. Being irritated at me, and handling it badly, still doesn't alter the fundamental facts of the topic.

Yes, maybe I'll sell it here, and charge a little extra for personally finishing off the key caps to an acceptable standard

When you have calmed down, maybe try to re-explain. Thanks mate.

glossywhite agains is expecting a lot from everybody else.
If people disagree with him, they can only be wrong, obviously that's that simple.

kbdfr wrote:

glossywhite wrote:

Ascaii wrote: [...] This isn't meant as a flamewar or personal attack, sorry if it sounds a little strong.

Please don't launch into a torrent of personally directed insults and profanity, and then attempt to cover up & pretend you're being civil in the last sentence. You still haven't given a reasonable and logical justification for the cosmetic flaws... because there isn't one. Being irritated at me, and handling it badly, still doesn't alter the fundamental facts of the topic.

Yes, maybe I'll sell it here, and charge a little extra for personally finishing off the key caps to an acceptable standard

When you have calmed down, maybe try to re-explain. Thanks mate.

glossywhite agains is expecting a lot from everybody else.
If people disagree with him, they can only be wrong, obviously that's that simple.

Would you be so kind as to keep on topic? Thanks

Glossywhite, so far I agree with everyone else on this topic.

hoggy wrote:Glossywhite, so far I agree with everyone else on this topic.

Majority vote means nothing.

glossywhite wrote:

hoggy wrote:Glossywhite, so far I agree with everyone else on this topic.

Majority vote means nothing.

glossywhite, I'd like to make a suggestion for your avatar:

I have a Unicomp Classic and although I'm not partial to the finishing, it's not a deal breaker for me. If I were going to wax critical about anything, it would likely be about certain enthusiast sentiments I've read which portray Unicomp boards as clones of the Model M when they seem more akin to lower quality replicas, in my opinion.

glossywhite wrote:

hoggy wrote:Glossywhite, so far I agree with everyone else on this topic.

Majority vote means nothing.

I must live in a different country to you...

Yeah, anyhoo, personal attacks aside (which always indicate one has lost the debate), if there's no further input or opinions on this issue which are not insults directed at me (SLIGHTLY childish, also irrelevant) then I'll close the thread...

go ahead, close it.

1391401 wrote:I have a Unicomp Classic and although I'm not partial to the finishing, it's not a deal breaker for me. If I were going to wax critical about anything, it would likely be about certain enthusiast sentiments I've read which portray Unicomp boards as clones of the Model M when they seem more akin to lower quality replicas, in my opinion.

Fanboys of anything magnify the positives in order to lessen the proportion of the negatives. That doesn't mean the negatives are not there, it just means they have blinded themselves to their existence. Anyone would think I had say this was a terrible keyboard, which it certainly isn't. Instead, they dodge and dance around the issue, pretending that it's a cheap item and that we should just take it on the chin...

Were Unicomp to suddenly address this QC issue, you'd see the very same folk who deny it is important, praising them for doing so, and attempting to back-pedal their opinions. Suddenly the suppressed complaints from when this issue was an issue would flood out, because they dared not complain to the mighty company who kept their fond memories of a decent quality version of the infamous keyboard, alive.

It's shoddy. £90 is a lot to pay for unfinished product, and well you know it guys. Yes, lower quality replicas are ALL these are. If I made chocolate from a mould bought from Cadbury, that doesn't mean I am making Cadbury chocolate

Before you close this thread, I'd like to quote again what Ascaii wrote:

Ascaii wrote:Oh come on glossy, dont be a prick

Unicomp may not live up to your "perfect apple" standards optically, but I think you are missing the crux of the unicomp (and most people here's) philosophy: Form follows function. Not the other way around. I would prefer a ever so slightly imperfect unicomp over a prettier, though non mechanical keyboard. Unicomp makes the Model M "as they used to". Meaning they hand assemble the bastards and make sure they click and function. That is good enough for me, and the other 99% of unicomp's customers. If the imperfections bother you that much just send it back and ask for a refund or sell it so someone here or on geekhack. To me, imperfections make up a large part of the charme of a vintage or vintage-esque Keyboard.

This isn't meant as a flamewar or personal attack, sorry if it sounds a little strong.

You called that "a torrent of personally directed insults and profanity".
Well, you seem to be rather touchy.

Good joke: "a torrent of personally directed insults and profanity"

kbdfr wrote:Before you close this thread, I'd like to quote again what Ascaii wrote:

Ascaii wrote:Oh come on glossy, dont be a prick

Unicomp may not live up to your "perfect apple" standards optically, but I think you are missing the crux of the unicomp (and most people here's) philosophy: Form follows function. Not the other way around. I would prefer a ever so slightly imperfect unicomp over a prettier, though non mechanical keyboard. Unicomp makes the Model M "as they used to". Meaning they hand assemble the bastards and make sure they click and function. That is good enough for me, and the other 99% of unicomp's customers. If the imperfections bother you that much just send it back and ask for a refund or sell it so someone here or on geekhack. To me, imperfections make up a large part of the charme of a vintage or vintage-esque Keyboard.

This isn't meant as a flamewar or personal attack, sorry if it sounds a little strong.

You called that "a torrent of personally directed insults and profanity".
Well, you seem to be rather touchy.

Good joke: "a torrent of personally directed insults and profanity"

You like being insulted? Oh, okay. Cool. I'll bear that in mind

It's not "touchy" to not want to be insulted and hyprocritically derided by a total stranger, because they are not gracious enough to take the time to phrase their wording so as not to offend someone. Willingly insulting someone personally is a sign of GREAT personal insecurity, not something that I would judge them for, even so.

If you wish to lessen the respect that total strangers have for you, remembering that this textual portrayal of your character is ALL we have to go on, then not only do you not value the other person, but surely you cannot value yourself or the image of yourself that you project to others who have nothing else to go on.

You should be happy that you still can make a choice to whether choose cheap rubbish or expensive quality.
As most customers are not willing to pay reasonable prices ( most ppl. either want to pay to less or way to much) company's like Unicomp will die because they are over the time running out of customers and money.

This was clearly guessable from the video that you have posted today. I am sure that they would set up the quality higher if they had not the fear that people won't buy anything anymore because of the resulting higher prices. (I wonder if they had made more money if they would praising their goods as top notch mega super duper luxury products and sell their keyboards for > 2000$)
Their strategy seems to try to make it not that expensive and therefore they are laking a bit of quality.

Sure they could reduce costs on staff, wages & etc. but it looks like they do care about their workers and also they offer some sort of service for their customers which most of the company's have forgotten about. You should also keep in mind that a Unicomp keyboard lasts longer than a normal keyboard and you are also able to easily repair the keyboard with replacement parts. I am guessing that Unicomp even will probably offer you some ( did someone asked them for hammers and springs ? ).
All in all this are reasonable facts for higher prices. The keyboards are still even cheaper than for example a nib Filco.

If you have a problem just contact them like you do it with any other product too.

Spharx wrote:You should be happy that you still can make a choice to whether choose cheap rubbish or expensive quality.
As most customers are not willing to pay reasonable prices ( most ppl. either want to pay to less or way to much) company's like Unicomp will die because they are over the time running out of customers and money.

This was clearly guessable from the video that you have posted today. I am sure that they would set up the quality higher if they had not the fear that people won't buy anything anymore because of the resulting higher prices. (I wonder if they had made more money if they would praising their goods as top notch mega super duper luxury products and sell their keyboards for > 2000$)
Their strategy seems to try to make it not that expensive and therefore they are laking a bit of quality.

Sure they could reduce costs on staff, wages & etc. but it looks like they do care about their workers and also they offer some sort of service for their customers which most of the company's have forgotten about. You should also keep in mind that a Unicomp keyboard lasts longer than a normal keyboard and you are also able to easily repair the keyboard with replacement parts. I am guessing that Unicomp even will probably offer you some ( did someone asked them for hammers and springs ? ).
All in all this are reasonable facts for higher prices. The keyboards are still even cheaper than for example a nib Filco.

If you have a problem just contact them like you do it with any other product too.

You make very good points, which I hadn't considered. I respect the fact that you had every opportunity to throw insults at me, but haven't. That is an example of the level of posting that these forums should aspire to, instead of taking the easy option and descending into anarchy.

I'll mull over this post again, later, when I have more time

Thank you for bringing these things to my mind... I hadn't considered them.

^ Dude, you need something to occupy yourself with, instead of being gratuitously facetious for the sake of self-entertainment.

Glossy, I gave you an advise last time.

You did not follow that simple advise. I told you this would happen if you didn't follow it.

You do realise you are digging your grave on this forum?