Why no more clickleaf switches?
Posted: 29 Nov 2019, 22:05
Given the uprise of light/hall effect switches, there isn't the need for the use of the room for the switch contacts. Why couldn't this room be used for an Alps style clickleaf?
deskthority
mechanical keyboard authority
https://mail.deskthority.net/
Why no more clickleaf switches?
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Re: Why no more clickleaf switches?
Posted: 29 Nov 2019, 22:29
Haata I think is already in the process of this.
Re: Why no more clickleaf switches?
Posted: 29 Nov 2019, 23:32
I'm gonna go out on a limb on this one.
Buckling spring, plate spring >>>> click leaf...
It's a flawed design, if it's not part of mechanism itself.
Buckling spring, plate spring >>>> click leaf...
It's a flawed design, if it's not part of mechanism itself.
Re: Why no more clickleaf switches?
Posted: 30 Nov 2019, 01:52
My counter to this is that the clickleaf, being modular, allows for a variety of experiences with the same base functional design. See the alps SKCM/SCKL line as an example.
Re: Why no more clickleaf switches?
Posted: 30 Nov 2019, 02:46
if it's reliable and feels good then I don't see how a switch design could be flawed. SKCM does those two criteria pretty well imo.
Re: Why no more clickleaf switches?
Posted: 30 Nov 2019, 03:53
I don't think there is enough room in a cherry size switch for a full buckling spring.
And if you make the top removable, you could just swap the leaves like springs....and I think even then Ive only seen one clickleaf fail...and at that it went to tactile from clicky.
Re: Why no more clickleaf switches?
Posted: 30 Nov 2019, 05:25
Lateral leaf springs add friction. You could make a smoother, soft-tactile switch with rubber dome or sleeve.
A stacked coiled spring on dome can provide sharper tactility than dome alone. A progressive spring with rubber dome/sleeve in parallel could provide feel similar to Panda/T1/Zealio/Clear ...
The rubber part could provide an additional role as sound dampener. Just don't rely on the rubber for sensing.
A stacked coiled spring on dome can provide sharper tactility than dome alone. A progressive spring with rubber dome/sleeve in parallel could provide feel similar to Panda/T1/Zealio/Clear ...
The rubber part could provide an additional role as sound dampener. Just don't rely on the rubber for sensing.
Re: Why no more clickleaf switches?
Posted: 30 Nov 2019, 05:55
Well the point is that clickleafs have so far been almost unsurpassed in click sound and have great tactility. If I just wanted a sharper tactility, I'd just get a clickbar switch.Findecanor wrote: ↑30 Nov 2019, 05:25Lateral leaf springs add friction. You could make a smoother, soft-tactile switch with rubber dome or sleeve.
A stacked coiled spring on dome can provide sharper tactility than dome alone. A progressive spring with rubber dome/sleeve in parallel could provide feel similar to Panda/T1/Zealio/Clear ...
The rubber part could provide an additional role as sound dampener. Just don't rely on the rubber for sensing.
Re: Why no more clickleaf switches?
Posted: 30 Nov 2019, 08:48
I'm working on it! My project is on hold because of final exams and a trip.
Re: Why no more clickleaf switches?
Posted: 30 Nov 2019, 21:00
Re: Why no more clickleaf switches?
Posted: 01 Dec 2019, 23:46
For a long time, it was due to the issue of integrated LEDs.
With Alps keyswitches, you either had a clickleaf, or an integrated LED, while Cherry's design allowed both a clicker and an integrated LED at the same time. Combine this with the rise of the rise of the cheap keyboards, and that the average user will care more about "gaming" features or will complain about why the letters aren't in alphabetic order (a very common issue for the elderly) rather than the keyfeel. There's still a few manufacturers making Alps clones (most notably Mathias), but then you have the issue of keycap compatibility. SMK unfortunately wasn't very widespread.
Maybe we should beg NovelKeys/Kailh to bless us with a modern MX-compatible keyswitch with a proper click/tactile leaf (I even brainstormed with the idea of using PET for the slider to make backlighting better), or make groupbuy efforts for Alps-compatible keycaps and go with Mathias or some of the remaining clone manufacturers.
With Alps keyswitches, you either had a clickleaf, or an integrated LED, while Cherry's design allowed both a clicker and an integrated LED at the same time. Combine this with the rise of the rise of the cheap keyboards, and that the average user will care more about "gaming" features or will complain about why the letters aren't in alphabetic order (a very common issue for the elderly) rather than the keyfeel. There's still a few manufacturers making Alps clones (most notably Mathias), but then you have the issue of keycap compatibility. SMK unfortunately wasn't very widespread.
Maybe we should beg NovelKeys/Kailh to bless us with a modern MX-compatible keyswitch with a proper click/tactile leaf (I even brainstormed with the idea of using PET for the slider to make backlighting better), or make groupbuy efforts for Alps-compatible keycaps and go with Mathias or some of the remaining clone manufacturers.
Re: Why no more clickleaf switches?
Posted: 02 Dec 2019, 00:17
This comes down to design. Our community designs are so advanced now, that the "design" doesn't matter. Whether bar, leaf or whatever. We are totally capable of making any switch we want, with any click/sense we want.ZILtoid1991 wrote: ↑01 Dec 2019, 23:46For a long time, it was due to the issue of integrated LEDs.
With Alps keyswitches, you either had a clickleaf, or an integrated LED, while Cherry's design allowed both a clicker and an integrated LED at the same time. Combine this with the rise of the rise of the cheap keyboards, and that the average user will care more about "gaming" features or will complain about why the letters aren't in alphabetic order (a very common issue for the elderly) rather than the keyfeel. There's still a few manufacturers making Alps clones (most notably Mathias), but then you have the issue of keycap compatibility. SMK unfortunately wasn't very widespread.
Maybe we should beg NovelKeys/Kailh to bless us with a modern MX-compatible keyswitch with a proper click/tactile leaf (I even brainstormed with the idea of using PET for the slider to make backlighting better), or make groupbuy efforts for Alps-compatible keycaps and go with Mathias or some of the remaining clone manufacturers.
There should never be a notion of "beg." We can make everything we want.PM me if you want to discuss.