deskthority

I just wanted to ask if any of you that have ordered any of Ellipse's new Model F keyboards are going to sign up for the Beamsprings? I am seriously thinking about it, but due to all of the uncertainty of when the Model F's will ship I don't about this project.

Also, TBH the pics really look like less of a reproduction and more like a "recreation". They don't seem to be of any particular type of Beamspring keyboard and they use the ANSI layout found on modern boards. Not to mention the case just looks...you know.

I think I read somewhere the case design is still not 100% final, and I hope he makes it look a bit more like the real deal.

I am by no means an expert on the different Beamspring keyboards and layouts, but I think the 5251's layout would work a lot better than others. It seems like it could come fairly close to modern layouts with a numpad you could reprogram to toggle off and on as a navcluster.

So what do you guys think? Is the 104 Beamspring repo going to be a good investment if you want a modern version for the greatest keyboards of all time?!

P.S. Notice how I am trying not to even mention the price.

I've never tried beamsprings so I'm not sure what I'm missing, but i've been waiting for my Model F repro for years now so I'm gonna wait for that before preordering the next thing

I also kind of feel like beamsprings are for the truly hardcore - the sheer size and height of the boards is intimidating.

JCMax wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2022, 04:07

Also, TBH the pics really look like less of a reproduction and more like a "recreation". They don't seem to be of any particular type of Beamspring keyboard and they use the ANSI layout found on modern boards. Not to mention the case just looks...you know.

I did sign up as soon as they were announced, but with the information that's come out since then, I'll at least wait and see what happens in the second round. A different case has been teased, and different layouts have been mentioned as well.
Personally I can't really stand ANSI, so the layout availability would make quite the difference.

I agree with all that you said, btw - especially on the case not being all that attractive. I think I may just stick to good old IBM beamsprings in the end, but we'll see what's announced ...

Bjerrk wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2022, 09:16

I did sign up as soon as they were announced, but with the information that's come out since then, I'll at least wait and see what happens in the second round. A different case has been teased, and different layouts have been mentioned as well.
Personally I can't really stand ANSI, so the layout availability would make quite the difference.

I agree with all that you said, btw - especially on the case not being all that attractive. I think I may just stick to good old IBM beamsprings in the end, but we'll see what's announced ...

So even if you sign-up you can back out later? That would be cool with me. I could go ahead and do the same thing.

I am coming up on a year since I ordered my Model F and I am hoping it will get here sooner than "years". It sounds like Ellipse is putting in extra effort to test and ship the rest of the keyboards to kick off the Beamspring project. I think he mentioned there were issues with one batch in one of his announcements. I am hoping the rest of the boards will be shipped out sooner than what they have? :fingers crossed:

JCMax wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2022, 14:32

So even if you sign-up you can back out later? That would be cool with me. I could go ahead and do the same thing.

Well, it seems reasonable to want to see (sufficient information on) the finished product before buying It's of course not a legally binding contract. I am of course legitimately interested, but it would still depend on what the actual product is like. Quite uncontroversial, when you think about it

Bjerrk wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2022, 15:49

Well, it seems reasonable to want to see (sufficient information on) the finished product before buying It's of course not a legally binding contract. I am of course legitimately interested, but it would still depend on what the actual product is like. Quite uncontroversial, when you think about it

I think I will sign up just because of the price. I saw something where the earlier you sign up the less money you'll have to pay. Like $600 for the first round of sign-ups, and then $700 for the second round, etc.

But if the final product is something that I don't think is worth the price point, I am not seeing it through and paying for it. Pure and simple.

In other words: you are his venture capital. If you don't like the look of your investment as his project progresses, you're selling out. Fair enough. Now I get what he's up to!

Muirium wrote: ↑

24 Feb 2022, 18:22

In other words: you are his venture capital. If you don't like the look of your investment as his project progresses, you're selling out. Fair enough. Now I get what he's up to!

PRECISELY!!!

These projects are great ideas, but there is SO much that I don't understand.
1) Why is it this project keeps getting extended indefinitely?
2) Why is it taking literally YEARS before people are getting their keyboards, etc.
3) Why does it seem like there is nobody else assisting him with some of these operations: like a QC team to test each board instead of just himself, or why there doesn't seem to be anybody assisting with creating a more user friendly site?

I love the idea of recreating the greatest board of all time, but so much is vague about this new project like the actual design, layout, start date, etc.

On the one hand I don't want to miss out IN CASE it takes off. But if not, why should I spend so much money on something that may not satisfy?

If Input Club already had they're Silo Beam-spring project out and reviewed, I might be looking at that one instead. But their project has been in development hell.

Have you ever tried to design something for manufacturing? This is all par for the course.

The big shops do it faster because they employ full timers for whom this is not their first rodeo.

Innovation is hard.

Regarding the Model F repro, my understanding is the orders were waiting for the printed keys. If you wanted one faster you could buy one with blank keys. That’s what I did and I received my board about a month after placing my order. It seems like he’s been spending a lot of time ensuring the printed keys are up to his quality standards. I think now he has almost everything in and is finalizing orders.

JCMax wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2022, 02:05

3) Why does it seem like there is nobody else assisting him with some of these operations: like a QC team to test each board instead of just himself, or why there doesn't seem to be anybody assisting with creating a more user friendly site?

The most likely reason he isn’t employing other people is due to cost and liability. It’s not easy employing a quality assurance/control person, especially for s project like this and in my experience getting cheap temporary help only causes more problems in the long run.

I placed an order for two beamspring boards based on fact that the original switches feel amazing and the original IBM boards are way more expensive and not very ergonomic. I figured this would be an easier, cheaper alternative. In my opinion Ellipse did a great job on the Model F repros so I have high hopes for this project. Worst case you can defer to round two and see how round one goes.

Ok, ok. I may have come off a bit harsh in my previous posts. I wasn't meaning to come off like I was angry or frustrated. I was really being more fascias than anything else.

I didn't mean for my wording to sound like I was disappointed or complaining about the project or the "way it was going". It was meant to be in a joking manner. Sorry about that. That also includes comments like "Precisely" and the Input Club comparison.

I also wasn't serious about "signup and then backout" either. Again, fascias. Really my choices are either to go with round one or wait for round two before deciding.

I was taking the opportunity to talk about some of the reasons why I was hesitant to jump into the project. But you gave me some good answers.

thefarside wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2022, 02:56

It seems like he’s been spending a lot of time ensuring the printed keys are up to his quality standards. I think now he has almost everything in and is finalizing orders.

Hmmmm....you're saying the orders could start getting out faster? That would be great.

JCMax wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2022, 02:05

3) Why does it seem like there is nobody else assisting him with some of these operations: like a QC team to test each board instead of just himself, or why there doesn't seem to be anybody assisting with creating a more user friendly site?

The most likely reason he isn’t employing other people is due to cost and liability. It’s not easy employing a quality assurance/control person, especially for s project like this and in my experience getting cheap temporary help only causes more problems in the long run.

That makes sense. Since it isn't a big operation, resources are limited. The stuff will get delivered, it's just very slow.

I placed an order for two beamspring boards based on fact that the original switches feel amazing and the original IBM boards are way more expensive and not very ergonomic. I figured this would be an easier, cheaper alternative. In my opinion Ellipse did a great job on the Model F repros so I have high hopes for this project. Worst case you can defer to round two and see how round one goes.

To be clear, after hearing your answers and thinking about it, I am leaning towards waiting for round two despite the higher cost it will probably have. I just wanted to point out revisions that will probably have to happen for me to signup.

What I was debating with myself was if I should go ahead and signup for round one vs round two because of the lower cost round one will have. But since I have been thinking about it, I will take the higher cost if it means more certainty. I really don't like paying that much unless I know I will like it.

That's what I did with the Model F. I bought it only after reading sooooo many good reviews. Plus, I tried a key tester and a New Model M.

Thanks for your answers. You cleared up a lot. I have made my decision and in summary I will wait for round one reviews to come out before deciding to signup for round two.

I still wonder why the project is getting extended so much. The reason I wonder is because somewhere I read that the Beamspring project won't kick off until all of the model F's are shipped.

Thanks again!

JCMax wrote: ↑

25 Feb 2022, 04:37

I didn't mean for my wording to sound like I was disappointed or complaining about the project or the "way it was going". It was meant to be in a joking manner. Sorry about that. That also includes comments like "Precisely" …

Agreeing with Mu can be harmful to your conscience.

For what it's worth, I'm quite honest about my attitude towards Ellipse's years long group… buys isn't the word. They're more like group… one man small production run moonshots. Namely: I couldn't hack it. No way am I buying any of that. All the waiting? All the early bird / low serial number / prisoners dilemma BS? All the culty need to keep believing for YEARS on end? Bollocks to that, son!

Admittedly, this is easy for me because I already have the OG Kishsaver and Beamspring I might otherwise deeply desire. So I feel for all you.

I do respect what Ellipse does, materially. But the man really does need helped in managing these projects. The individual product QA and especially the customer support side need more manpower than one determined soul alone. But hey, he's doing it, and he really ships… eventually. Keep the faith and you shall reap.

I have received my new Model F keyboard, and it was worth it to me. But yes, years of waiting was definitely a worry.

Yeah, at the end of the day it is what it is. If this is what it takes to get such a worthwhile product, I would say you're better off to just go with the flow!

I suggest taking a look at the updates page of the project web site if you are interested in the details behind the project delays - many of these points have been answered a while back over there. The delays are not a matter of time to QC each unit - the posts explain the factory bottlenecks over the years and the focus on quality control over the timeline. In summary the backlog finished production and all remaining orders are currently at sea in a container ship and they will be going out over the coming months. So far over 1,900 new Model F keyboards have shipped.

Regarding the beam spring project, the Google form is for both rounds so it is not necessary to wait to sign up or to decide beforehand which round you want; anyways at this point there are over 900 requests for the 300 keyboards in the first round of already manufactured keyboards (the form also includes requests for the second round) so the focus now is on planning for the second round and what to change (the case, adding more sound dampening, etc.). As noted on the original post of the beam spring project thread, the beam spring project's goal was to make reproductions of the switch with some updates like MX compatibility and a lower profile for the beam module, but not to make reproductions of the original layouts, cases, or exact sound of the originals.

Ellipse wrote: ↑

09 Mar 2022, 08:43

I suggest taking a look at the updates page of the project web site if you are interested in the details behind the project delays - many of these points have been answered a while back over there. The delays are not a matter of time to QC each unit - the posts explain the factory bottlenecks over the years and the focus on quality control over the timeline. In summary the backlog finished production and all remaining orders are currently at sea in a container ship and they will be going out over the coming months. So far over 1,900 new Model F keyboards have shipped.

Regarding the beam spring project, the Google form is for both rounds so it is not necessary to wait to sign up or to decide beforehand which round you want; anyways at this point there are over 900 requests for the 300 keyboards in the first round of already manufactured keyboards (the form also includes requests for the second round) so the focus now is on planning for the second round and what to change (the case, adding more sound dampening, etc.). As noted on the original post of the beam spring project thread, the beam spring project's goal was to make reproductions of the switch with some updates like MX compatibility and a lower profile for the beam module, but not to make reproductions of the original layouts, cases, or exact sound of the originals.

Thanks for the reply!
I think I will go ahead and sign up, of it's all down to the second round now.