deskthority

Hey y'all! I am completely new to this, in fact I am thinking I might be over my head.

I found an old Model F XT on ebay, they said they weren't sure if it worked because they couldn't connect it to their computer to test it themselves. But it looked to be in decent condition.

I found this post: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8448 and thought I'd give it a try.

I believe I've got the Pro Micro successfully flashed with v1.12 of Soarer's converter and it shows in Windows as Soarer's every time now. At first, after wiring the DIN 5, no light would show on the Pro Micro so I bridged the jumper as per some comments on that post and it finally started to recognize SOMETHING in my computer, while wired to the keyboard.

However, no matter what firmware I've tried, it seems like none of the keys are responsive whatsoever. And I am not sure if I got a dud or am missing something. Please forgive me for being not well versed in everything, I've been working my butt off but I started to get overwhelmed and thought maybe someone might be kind enough to share their expertise.

I've since tried Arakula's Soarer_at2usb_v1.12_atmega32u4_ProMicro_Reset.zip, then Soarer's Soarer_Controller_v1.20_beta4_atmega32u4.hex, then Hasu's ibmpc_usb_atmega32u4.hex (from TMK GH, not sure if that's a different thing), then tried a random firmware that seemed related to my keyboard and pro micro, xt_usb_lufa.hex.

I didn't solder each wire, I tightly twist/wrapped them and I figured that was enough for now at least because the little LED would not work/light until all connections were simultaneously tight. But I could be wrong.

I also tried unplugging and re-securing the internal black connector to the main board after taking off the back plate. I tried tightening the bolt to the pcb. I also tried the ground wire thing and made sure it was secure around one of the two main screws on the back plate.

My hid_listen shows:

I would highly recommend properly soldering the wires before wasting your time with anything else...

Oh wow, thanks for replying so fast! Okay, I will work on that right now. Thank you so much, I hope I don't botch this and will report back.

^^ Seconded.

Okay, guys, please be gentle. I really hope I don't insult or infuriate this community, I am doing something scary and new and trying my best!!!

Before, the wires would be able to easily slide back and forth or up and down. Now I know this probably looks horrible but I am on a shoestring budget and my horrible solders at least don't move anymore, I checked all 8 points and they are solid and don't seem to be touching/leaking into any neighboring connections.

I plugged it in, and thankfully at least it didn't show LESS life. But I have the exact same read as before on hid_listen.

I imagine you guys might tell me to either re-solder / make them cleaner or send this keyboard to someone who deserves it : 0

It is brave of you to try this but I think you might have to practice on the soldering part a bit more. Buy a couple of those neat electronics kits to practice soldering to a PCB and read up on how to properly solder wires to connectors. It will cost a little bit of money but it is valuable knowledge and it will let your creations survive longer.
Good luck.

Hey there, thank you so much! I honestly was not 100% sure if it was due to my doing the hardware part badly, or somehow a known / easy fix by way of the right firmware you guys might have been aware of.

If it's truly that the connections are where the most likely start needs to be here, I will absolutely do my diligence in that regard without asking or expecting any more time out of you gentle amazing folks.

Thank you thank you!!

Edit: I realized that I assumed because of the hid_listen readout that my keyboard actually WAS talking to my pro micro and that the hardware part was fine. That's why I assumed I was stuck on the software side. But after you guys drew attention to the soldering, I disconnected the DIN 5 connector and realized it gave the exact same readout... it's only from the pro micro. That makes total sense and I will work on the soldering. You guys rock, sorry for wasting any of your time on this.

Don't worry, you aren't wasting our time. Just take your time and practice but try to practice on some soldering kits to avoid possibly damaging your keyboard. Welcome to the hobby!

Thank you so much, thank you guys for all the work you do and for being here. <3

I'd recommend buying a Soarer's converter from orihalcon. https://www.ebay.com/itm/302711725609. $40. I've bought several different ones from him and they've all been high quality.

If you do want to build yourself, I have heavily "annotated" the guide from xueyao, who really did a great job. viewtopic.php?f=7&p=492560.

You might want to consider buying a solderless breadboard, if you have pins for your Teensy. They're about $4 on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Breadboard-Solde ... B077DN2PS1).

hellothere wrote: 08 May 2022, 21:24 I'd recommend buying a Soarer's converter from orihalcon. https://www.ebay.com/itm/302711725609. $40. I've bought several different ones from him and they've all been high quality.

If you do want to build yourself, I have heavily "annotated" the guide from xueyao, who really did a great job. viewtopic.php?f=7&p=492560.

You might want to consider buying a solderless breadboard, if you have pins for your Teensy. They're about $4 on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Breadboard-Solde ... B077DN2PS1).

I did end up just buying one! I just put it in minutes ago and I want to cry. I was so worried I bought a no-returns dud!! I am typing on it right now. Now, I just need to clean it up a bit
(pic from ebay listing)

I was referencing that guide too! If you mean you have a separate resource based on that guide, I would absolutely love to see it!

I definitely want to still learn to solder as it would have helped me so many times in the past and I consider it an invaluable skill for someone such as me in the future. I just vastly overestimated my ability to pick up and get things done with a $6 iron from Wal-Mart and $5 solder from Home Depot (no flux but it claimed it was in the core of the wire, also no brush, no cleaning metal scrunchie thing, so flipping much did/do I still need to learn). And because I was getting more and more stressed that I bought a dud, it was the worst environment to learn (rushing, mistakes, burning myself like a fool, probably did a number on my pro micro).

So, thank you SO much for that recommendation! I absolutely would love to buy that and then, also I suppose, something like this, right?? https://www.amazon.com/Elegoo-EL-CP-004 ... 1427?psc=1

I wonder if the females can fit directly over the DIN 5 pins.. Oh but I see those can fit directly into the main board inside the shell. That's perfect!

I am a programmer and part of me thinks that diving into this world would be immensely fulfilling and I would love to contribute however I can. I have so much love for the community and the resources they make available. I just also have a lot to learn in that technical regard since 'web dev' doesn't exactly translate all that well.

Get a fat tip iron that has more thermal inertia than a $6 iron, try to heat the substrate you will be applying the solder to first. Do not melt the solder directly with the iron. When you touch the solder to the pre-heated wire or whatever it is, it should flow.

Sometimes having a higher wattage iron or larger iron can allow you to transfer LESS heat into your work piece than a low wattage small iron. Because the time required is less. I'm average skill wise, so take that with some salt, but I've found it to be true for me. Even if you end up rolling your own, its good to have a pro built soarers to test against. I'd get some flux also, even if you are using flux solder.

> I was referencing that guide too! If you mean you have a separate resource based on that guide, I would absolutely love to see it!
As I'm not the OP in that thread or a Moderator, so I can't really "edit" things, I just added a few extra things in the thread.

> I wonder if the females can fit directly over the DIN 5 pins
The later versions of the TMK converters I've been building are like the orihalcon converters: you plug in the existing keyboard cable to the converter and plug the USB into your computer. Mine don't look anywhere near as nice as orihalcon's, but they work.

> I absolutely would love to buy that and then, also I suppose, something like this, right?? https://www.amazon.com/Elegoo-EL-CP-004 ... 1427?psc=1
Those are almost identical to the ones I played with, so you should be set.

I've got an X-Tronic 4000 soldering iron. I'm not extremely good or anything -- I've been soldering for about two years and less than 50ish keyboards -- but I can get the job done without too many mistakes. I've recently been enjoying using chisel tips and I've got a nice, big, lighted magnifying lamp (looks like this). However, if I had known how much soldering I'd do, I would have bought a higher-end Hakko or Weller. The X-Tronic -- again, only two-ish years old -- is wearing out.

I do have a desoldering gun, but a Soldapullt works better and faster for me.

Solder: https://www.amazon.com/MAIYUM-63-37-Sol ... B075WB98FJ. I've been told that lead+tin, rather than lead-free, solder is better. Use the 0.8mm. I don't know a recommended brand.
Flux: https://www.amazon.com/Soldering-Flux-L ... B089DRRV7B. I dunno what's supposed to be the best brand for flux. I've done a bunch of keyboards and the 16oz tub is maybe 1/4 gone, at most, so I'm happy.

Yasu0 wrote: 10 May 2022, 00:53 Get a fat tip iron that has more thermal inertia than a $6 iron, try to heat the substrate you will be applying the solder to first. Do not melt the solder directly with the iron. When you touch the solder to the pre-heated wire or whatever it is, it should flow.

Sometimes having a higher wattage iron or larger iron can allow you to transfer LESS heat into your work piece than a low wattage small iron. Because the time required is less. I'm average skill wise, so take that with some salt, but I've found it to be true for me. Even if you end up rolling your own, its good to have a pro built soarers to test against. I'd get some flux also, even if you are using flux solder.

Ooooh, this is all amazing stuff. I saw a video using the method you described, though not exactly, and that sounds so clean. I can't wait to try it. Thank you a ton for going into such detail on this. I absolutely will be researching more as I go down into this rabbit hole but it helps so immensely to have some expert advice.

I also wanted to maybe one day attempt the Switch hard mod (not until I'm MUCH more confident/practiced). So I have been considering what kinds of new equipment I can get that might help me later down the line or offer some versatility as well. I definitely had issues heating with my trash iron, it also seemed like the tip was caked with nonsense that was blocking the heat transfer.

I've promised myself that now that I have peace of mind (and am patiently restoring/cleaning this beast) that I wanted to successfully accomplish a Soarer's converter on my own. It's honestly so nice to have a project to motivate me.

Also, noted about the flux. I read a bit more about how it works and what it does. I won't survive seriously without some flux. I've properly learned the hell of chasing balls of solder around that just don't want to play nice. Never again.

As I'm not the OP in that thread or a Moderator, so I can't really "edit" things, I just added a few extra things in the thread.

Ah, that makes perfect sense. Thanks, I will check through the thread. I'm sure I will learn a ton more in general as well.

The later versions of the TMK converters I've been building are like the orihalcon converters: you plug in the existing keyboard cable to the converter and plug the USB into your computer. Mine don't look anywhere near as nice as orihalcon's, but they work.

I was a bit amazed, despite not knowing much, that so much was packed into such a small enclosure (after being exposed to a pro micro). It still seems way more micro I actually remember digging through the TMK firmware collection but am not too familiar with the differences a TMK converter might have, maybe in terms of hardware? Some pictures I just looked up looked a bit different than the usual Teensy/Micro stuff I've seen. (Still don't know how orihalcon's looks so small, I guess that's definitely not a pro micro)

Those are almost identical to the ones I played with, so you should be set.

Amazing, I can't wait to play around. Now that I respect the learning curve a bit more, I can actually take my time and learn. And I desperately need some soldering wins hahahah

X-Tronic / Hakko / Weller recommendations:
I appreciate this so much. I was in between "I should just wait until I can buy the endgame MAX quality iron, something like 2-300" OR accept I probably need a mid range first. Again, my only two immediate considerations are whether I can use this for both a pro micro type project AND a much smaller scale chip board like the one on the Switch. So I have plenty more research to do and this helps.

Desoldering:
Sounds like something I might need to do to revive my pro micro hwahahahah I also wore the two J1 jumper pads out a bit and might even also need a scraping pen, I believe it's called, to be able to salvage what connection is left. I've seen some starting kits on Amazon with various accessories but I feel like I should just be a bit more patient and buy slightly nicer things separately over time.

Same with your solder rec, yup, I've also heard about lead being easier to use. I just have to set up a bit of ventilation but I keep thinking that's where I need to go next. Didn't know about the +tin, I will read more. And 0.8mm also gives me precious context for some key features, like all the other advice you both have given me, that I can focus on which makes this all so much less overwhelming to be freshly into.

Your flux rec:
Oooh, that looks really interesting actually. I thought at first liquid was the way to go but I'm warming up to having a paste. Multiple have said that a tub just lasts 'practically forever' and I just want something that works. I'll look more into that brand. THANK you again!!

As for the rest, I may post some pictures in the coming days. I know that seems to be a thing on these boards for before/after or restoration progress type projects. But I'm not sure if that's better for a separate thread where I describe my experience, what I did/bought, and maybe unique things I ran into and how I dealt with them? I'm not sure. Maybe you guys could speak to the net value of 'yet another' Model F XT restoration hahahah (By the way, if I break something, I hear from a little bird you might have some extra parts muahahahah, I might come a'knockin)