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The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 29 Apr 2023, 03:44
by apastuszak
Today I went into the office with a bag full of keyboards for my coworkers to try out. I brought the following boards:
1. Unicomp Mini-M
2. Apple Extended Keyboard II (Cream Alps)
3. Matias Tactile Pro
4. Royal Kludge RK100 with Box Jade switches
5. Keychron K8 Pro with lubed Glorious Panda Switches
This was the order from least favorite to most favorite:
5. Royal Kludge RK 100
4. Keychron K8 Pro
3. Unicomp Mini-M
2. Apple Extended Keyboard II
1. Matias Tactile Pro
This was only 4 people. All of them had previously used a mechanical keyboard, but their experience was limited to brown and red switches. But all 4 people picked the same order.
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 29 Apr 2023, 09:22
by Muirium
Matias above a real AEK II? The tasteless clods!
This was a few seconds on each, right? I can forgive them for being categorically wrong if they hardly tried.
I've not touched a board of Jades or Pandas, though my experience with samplers is
eurrgh? so I get that first impression. Unicomp deserves to be behind the AEK but well above the Matias, though.
Without a Model F or Topre, though, you were really testing them on a handful of exclusively mid-table keyboards.
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 29 Apr 2023, 15:50
by apastuszak
I will never own a Topre board. They're just too expensive for what they are.
It was just about 30 seconds on each board. I haven't use the AEK II in a while. But when I had it out yesterday and tried it out, I immediately plugged into my laptop and used it the rest of the day.
Jades and Pandas are just MX clones. They're never going to feel as good as a buckling spring or Alps/Matias switch, no matter what you do to it.
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 29 Apr 2023, 15:58
by Muirium
So hideously expensive. They’re almost 3 figures! Unacceptable.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394262996285
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 29 Apr 2023, 16:58
by apastuszak
Find me a full size Topre board, and not one of those toy keyboards.
To get even a TKL with Topre switches is going to cost me around US$250 new. There are some used eBay options in the US for around $150.00, but the ones I'm seeing are looking a little rough.
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 29 Apr 2023, 18:34
by thefarside
I’m not surprised about the Matias Tactile Pro. It’s a good full size keyboard.
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 29 Apr 2023, 21:44
by apastuszak
thefarside wrote: ↑29 Apr 2023, 18:34
I’m not surprised about the Matias Tactile Pro. It’s a good full size keyboard.
I think the typing experience along with the extra USB ports helped seal the deal for some.
If I could get a fully programmable Tactile Pro with a USB-C (3.1 Gen 2) hub in it, I might have my perfect keyboard.
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 29 Apr 2023, 22:11
by TNT
apastuszak wrote: ↑29 Apr 2023, 15:50
I will never own a Topre board. They're just too expensive for what they are.
It was just about 30 seconds on each board. I haven't use the AEK II in a while. But when I had it out yesterday and tried it out, I immediately plugged into my laptop and used it the rest of the day.
Jades and Pandas are just MX clones. They're never going to feel as good as a buckling spring or Alps/Matias switch, no matter what you do to it.
That's a harsh take on the Jades man. Apart from the contact mechanism and the stem, what makes them just another clone in your opinion? The clickbar makes a huge difference in feel and sound (for me, that is)...
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 29 Apr 2023, 22:24
by apastuszak
TNT wrote: ↑29 Apr 2023, 22:11
apastuszak wrote: ↑29 Apr 2023, 15:50
I will never own a Topre board. They're just too expensive for what they are.
It was just about 30 seconds on each board. I haven't use the AEK II in a while. But when I had it out yesterday and tried it out, I immediately plugged into my laptop and used it the rest of the day.
Jades and Pandas are just MX clones. They're never going to feel as good as a buckling spring or Alps/Matias switch, no matter what you do to it.
That's a harsh take on the Jades man. Apart from the contact mechanism and the stem, what makes them just another clone in your opinion? The clickbar makes a huge difference in feel and sound (for me, that is)...
The click bar does make a difference compared to standard blue switches. But any time I use anything with an Alps/Matias switch or a buckling spring, it feels so much better than anything in the cherry mx/mx clone space.
So they way I look at it is that Box Jades are really good MX style switches. But they're still MX Style switches.
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 01 May 2023, 11:06
by Scarpia
I used to say like you - that nothing in the MX space could touch my Alps or Model M/F boards - especially my SKCM Browns which had just no match whatsoever in the MX world.
This was true up to and including Zealios, Holy Pandas, T1s and their clone variants…. Until I tried the latest generation of rounded-bump MX switches:
- Gazzew Boba U4T
- Tecsee Purple Pandas
- Durock Anubis
- SP-Star Polaris Purple
I am very impressed with the bump and sound of all of these, which is very close to SKCM Brown Alps — but lighter and with the MX PCB/plate and keycap compatibility these are frankly fantastic choices today.
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 01 May 2023, 11:10
by Muirium
Hmm. Maybe I should try another tester. Know any with all of those? Brown Alps would be the direction of interest for me as well.
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 01 May 2023, 11:53
by Scarpia
I got a bunch of them from that eBay/Etsy seller who has >200 different switches and lets you mix and match which you want and sends you a tester with them. He’s based in the US so it ends up costing a bit but the freedom to pick was worth it for me
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 01 May 2023, 12:34
by Muirium
Got a link? I could pick one up when I’m next over there.
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 01 May 2023, 13:08
by Scarpia
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 01 May 2023, 14:47
by thefarside
Scarpia wrote: ↑01 May 2023, 11:06
- Gazzew Boba U4T
- Tecsee Purple Pandas
- Durock Anubis
- SP-Star Polaris Purple
I am very impressed with the bump and sound of all of these, which is very close to SKCM Brown Alps — but lighter and with the MX PCB/plate and keycap compatibility these are frankly fantastic choices today.
Thanks Scarpia. I’m also interested in brown alps but don’t want to pay $5/switch, so these would be interesting alternatives. Do you recommend them lubed or not?
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 01 May 2023, 16:05
by Tribal
Not surprised at all by that order, having tried all of those or close equivalents (Matias QC and Alps Orange/Black). If I didn’t work in a very quiet office I’d use a Matias Tactile Pro Mini or an Alps tactile board.
If you have a Round 2, I’d love to see Model F, Topre, and even really good rubber dome switches (my Logitech K350, K800, and MacBook Pro 2012 all have surprisingly good keyfeel in ways other Logitech and Apple products don’t).
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 01 May 2023, 16:20
by Muirium
2012 MacBook Pro?
I had a 2013 model and its keyboard was such a disappointment compared to my
12 inch PowerBook G4, it helped pique my interest in real boards. Those chiclet keyboards were the biggest step backwards in laptop design ever. I remember the first time I touched one (in our local long departed indy Mac store: Scotsys) on the
original plastic MacBook in 2006. This was a profound first impression and not a good one! Sadly, they soon became ubiquitous across the Mac line and then the whole PC world because everyone really does slavishly copy Apple, the good and the bad.
Those G4 era and original 2006 MacBook Pro keyboards with sculpted keys really are much better. Spoil yourself and try one someday.
Thanks for the link Scarpia! What would you advise populating one with? Lubed and unlubed?
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 01 May 2023, 16:45
by apastuszak
So, what MX clone switches file SKCM Blue switches and cream dampened Alps switches?
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 01 May 2023, 21:52
by apastuszak
apastuszak wrote: ↑01 May 2023, 16:45
So, what MX clone switches sound like SKCM Blue switches and cream dampened Alps switches?
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 03 May 2023, 18:57
by Scarpia
thefarside wrote: ↑01 May 2023, 14:47
Scarpia wrote: ↑01 May 2023, 11:06
- Gazzew Boba U4T
- Tecsee Purple Pandas
- Durock Anubis
- SP-Star Polaris Purple
I am very impressed with the bump and sound of all of these, which is very close to SKCM Brown Alps — but lighter and with the MX PCB/plate and keycap compatibility these are frankly fantastic choices today.
Thanks Scarpia. I’m also interested in brown alps but don’t want to pay $5/switch, so these would be interesting alternatives. Do you recommend them lubed or not?
Unlubed, totally stock. Truth be told, I don’t have the patience to lube switches (except for vintage switches, where age and wear have taken a toll) so I have only tried them stock and I have no desire to lube them.
Controversial opinion: If a manufacturer can develop doubleshot injection molded keycaps with tolerances precise enough to produce a consistent removable friction fit on an MX keystem, they can produce switches with a stock performance that should beat what you or I can achieve at home with a $2 paintbrush and a +/- 50% variability in lube quantity from switch to switch. Lubing modern switches straight from the factory feels like either elitist gold-plated-audiophile-cable snake oil or possibly a last resort for trash-quality switches that you shouldn’t have bought in the first place.
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 04 May 2023, 03:01
by Polecat
Scarpia wrote: ↑03 May 2023, 18:57
Controversial opinion: If a manufacturer can develop doubleshot injection molded keycaps with tolerances precise enough to produce a consistent removable friction fit on an MX keystem, they can produce switches with a stock performance that should beat what you or I can achieve at home with a $2 paintbrush and a +/- 50% variability in lube quantity from switch to switch. Lubing modern switches straight from the factory feels like either elitist gold-plated-audiophile-cable snake oil or possibly a last resort for trash-quality switches that you shouldn’t have bought in the first place.
Or the next step in the development of children barely out of the food-throwing stage. But some will grow out of it. <ducking>
Re: The great keyboard experiment
Posted: 06 May 2023, 03:54
by apastuszak
I went back into work today (I normally work from home) and my boss asked me if I brought "that white keyboard" with me. He was referring to the Matias Tactile Pro.
Sadly I had not. But I told him I had a KBParadise that used the same switches that I could lend him on a semi-permanent basis. He was very interested.
