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Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 23 Aug 2023, 21:03
by daemonspudguy
Most "modern" keyboards I come across are built kinda like crap.
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 23 Aug 2023, 21:48
by hellothere
My Keychrons aren't bad. I think they're both K6s.
I'm currently typing on a (probably) original gen Velocifire TKL with Box Jade switches and $30 or so caps. I'm rather surprised at how good the construction is, especially for a keyboard that also cost around $30, new.
I've got one of those overly shiny Das Keyboards that is a few years old, but it's pretty nice. The look is greatly enhanced by getting rid of the "gamer font" keycaps and slapping on new Tai-Hao white on black. I also used black wax on the body. The only reason I don't use it more is because I don't really care for Cherry MX.
While I really like my Apex Pro Hall-effect, I do wish that it was a bit more robust. It's just OK for build quality. Feels great, tho.
I still think my favorite keyboard is my Realforce and I think that's made pretty well.
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 23 Aug 2023, 22:17
by podgen
daemonspudguy wrote: 23 Aug 2023, 21:03
Most "modern" keyboards I come across are built kinda like crap.
If you get into customs you can get milled aluminium, or if you're fancy enough higher grade metals yet. I'd say they're better build condition than F's in some ways, definitely M's - but I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 23 Aug 2023, 23:06
by Tribal
I mean…you can still buy an M or an F. I have a Unicomp Mini M and an Ellipse F77 and each is very well-made. I also really like my Topre Realforces (especially the R3 wireless).
Or, as has been mentioned above, there are metal keyboards. A Drop Ctrl or Alt in high-profile is going to be very strong.
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 24 Aug 2023, 04:47
by daemonspudguy
I know you can still get Ms. I have one.
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 24 Aug 2023, 04:48
by daemonspudguy
Drop's CTRLs are definitely built well but they're TKLs, sadly.
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 24 Aug 2023, 08:45
by guidemetothelight
daemonspudguy wrote: 23 Aug 2023, 21:03
Most "modern" keyboards I come across are built kinda like crap.
agreed. my gaming board is pretty good though, its an xtry k4 tkl.
The caps were crap, but this was easily fixed. rest is really solid.
No metal, but still.
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 26 Aug 2023, 03:12
by Shorle
daemonspudguy wrote: 24 Aug 2023, 04:48
Drop's CTRLs are definitely built well but they're TKLs, sadly.
If
Drop's CTRL (or actually any keyboard of theirs) are a good point of reference for you, build wise, and you are open to MX switches, there are some better options for you, even when you want a full size keyboard.
QK100 might be big enough for you and is a popular choice for enthusiasts starting to follow the rabbit.
WindX98 is another quality board with a close to 100% layout.
Keychron offers a decent amount of actual full size, Model M layout, keyboards.
Akko has some options as well, but
Keychron is generally regarded as having higher quality.
Meletrix is trying to figure out the layout for their full size
Zoom 109 keyboard but that'll be a while until release.
Posted: 26 Aug 2023, 22:38
by davkol
derp
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 27 Aug 2023, 09:05
by kbdfr
davkol wrote: 26 Aug 2023, 22:38[…] I often don't understand what "build quality" means to people.
Especially considering the esteemed Model M… with its stupid fucking rivets. […]
Thanks, davkol, for not letting me be the only one to debunk the "build quality" claim all too often associated with the Model M
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 27 Aug 2023, 13:10
by Muirium
In all honesty: who actually believes the Model M supremacy myth here? Isn't it just a straw man we occasionally hack at? Hasn't Ellipse moved on even the uninterested tech news sites to saying it's the Model F?
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 27 Aug 2023, 20:30
by mmm
It's just that a lot of modern keyboards are being built as cheap as possible. Flimsy body, keycaps that will show signs of wear quickly, light, and somewhat prone to breaking. Lately there has been a lot of modern quality keyboards popping up. Then there is of course the custom scene, but it's often quite expensive. If you are willing to pay more than the bare minimum, quality in modern keyboards is very achievable.
The Model M is well built. Yep, it has the rivets popping of, it's not NKRO. But it is heavy - and it's easy to substitute heavy for quality when it comes to tools. Food is even perceived to taste better if the cutlery is heavier. It's also not the bare minimum; the case has some contour and it feels solid. The keycaps are thick, the legends are super sharp (in most cases at least), and the caps are practically impossible to wear down. The sound may also be more pleasing to some, compared to Model Fs. Yep there are better vintage keyboards, but the Model M is very common and you can get it working with a modern computer with just an ordinary PS2 adapter.
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 27 Aug 2023, 22:38
by daemonspudguy
mmm wrote: 27 Aug 2023, 20:30
It's just that a lot of modern keyboards are being built as cheap as possible. Flimsy body, keycaps that will show signs of wear quickly, light, and somewhat prone to breaking. Lately there has been a lot of modern quality keyboards popping up. Then there is of course the custom scene, but it's often quite expensive. If you are willing to pay more than the bare minimum, quality in modern keyboards is very achievable.
The Model M is well built. Yep, it has the rivets popping of, it's not NKRO. But it is heavy - and it's easy to substitute heavy for quality when it comes to tools. Food is even perceived to taste better if the cutlery is heavier. It's also not the bare minimum; the case has some contour and it feels solid. The keycaps are thick, the legends are super sharp (in most cases at least), and the caps are practically impossible to wear down. The sound may also be more pleasing to some, compared to Model Fs. Yep there are better vintage keyboards, but the Model M is very common and you can get it working with a modern computer with just an ordinary PS2 adapter.
This is why I asked. Modern keyboards are so often flimsy pieces of cheap shit.
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 28 Aug 2023, 19:39
by ssterling
In addition to the sheer weight of the parts, I think part of the perceived build quality of the Model M boils down to the ease with which those simple, bulky parts are tweaked and/or changed out. It’s no different than how some view vintage cars; for example, though newer fuel injectors offer superior performance in almost every way, old-fashioned carburetors can actually be tweaked, tuned and understood using simpler tools and techniques.
?..
Posted: 28 Aug 2023, 23:33
by dellmodelm
?..
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 29 Aug 2023, 23:02
by Seirin-Blu
Please don’t tell me you’re actually comparing something that was like 250$ when it was released (700$-ish now) to something like a 40$ keyboard in 2023.
Yes people still do make heavy premium keyboards—they’re custom keyboards. I’ve been waiting a year plus for a metal keyboard that’s AT layout and will cost about 700$.
You’re comparing apples to oranges.
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 30 Aug 2023, 06:05
by daemonspudguy
Seirin-Blu wrote: 29 Aug 2023, 23:02
Please don’t tell me you’re actually comparing something that was like 250$ when it was released (700$-ish now) to something like a 40$ keyboard in 2023.
Yes people still do make heavy premium keyboards—they’re custom keyboards. I’ve been waiting a year plus for a metal keyboard that’s AT layout and will cost about 700$.
You’re comparing apples to oranges.
Model Ms are still made, and are definitely not 700 dollars. I should have worded it differently.
Re: Does anyone still make keyboards with build quality comparable to a Model F or even an M?
Posted: 07 Sep 2023, 03:20
by hellothere
mmm wrote: 27 Aug 2023, 20:30
[...On the Model M,] the legends are super sharp (in most cases at least), and the caps are practically impossible to wear down.
I've got a bunch of Model M key caps that don't have great legends and I've got a bunch of worn down ones, too.