deskthority

I'm a programmer so I obviously do a ton of typing, I currently have a filco majestouch 2 with browns and it's alright but I'd like to try some other switches. What switches are recommended for somebody who types a ton? Thanks for reading.

45g Topres are nice, you could try those.

I've been using a μTron having 45g topre for a couple of months for programming. While the switches feels great (well some say they aren't, but I don't have anything to complain about, they're just soft and sweet to me), what really makes programming slick is a more efficient keymap (which you would have to create by yourself, perhaps with Sharpkey or autohotkey) and being able to use your thumbs for 8 keys and your pointing fingers for 4 more keys. After remapping the layout, I'm not using pinkies much and typing code is a lot more fluent.

The kinesis contoured with Red-switches could be a better choice though.

I use a HHKB Type-S. You can't go wrong with one. There even made with hacking in mind.

fossala wrote:I use a HHKB Type-S. You can't go wrong with one. There even made with hacking in mind.

He is right.

Multiple wrote:45g Topres are nice, you could try those.

I've been using a μTron having 45g topre for a couple of months for programming. While the switches feels great (well some say they aren't, but I don't have anything to complain about, they're just soft and sweet to me), what really makes programming slick is a more efficient keymap (which you would have to create by yourself, perhaps with Sharpkey or autohotkey) and being able to use your thumbs for 8 keys and your pointing fingers for 4 more keys. After remapping the layout, I'm not using pinkies much and typing code is a lot more fluent.

The kinesis contoured with Red-switches could be a better choice though.

fossala wrote:I use a HHKB Type-S. You can't go wrong with one. There even made with hacking in mind.

longweight wrote:

fossala wrote:I use a HHKB Type-S. You can't go wrong with one. There even made with hacking in mind.

He is right.

So trying out Topre keys would be good, alright.
What about buckling spring? Would they be too hard to push?

What other versions of kinesis used for switches, and how much do these models cost?

Buttercup wrote: So trying out Topre keys would be good, alright.
What about buckling spring? Would they be too hard to push?

Not the buckling springs on Model F AT anyway, I've been typing on those from morning to night everyday for years and my fingers never complained. Can't say the same for Model M, it bothers me to use them. The action is not as crisp.

maxrunner wrote:What other versions of kinesis used for switches, and how much do these models cost?

The default version widely sold has mx brown switch, mx red is only available through kinesis site

It's a matter of personal preference ..
My coding is done on a 1992 US-ANSI layout IBM Model M .
For everything else, I prefer linear Cherry-switches and ISO-layout with my weird national characters .

Multiple wrote:45g Topres are nice, you could try those.

I've been using a μTron having 45g topre for a couple of months for programming. [..]

Where did you get the μTron and how much did it cost? I'm in Europe and I'd love to check it out but importing one from Japan will be a bit too expensive for me :/

I for myself love Buckling Springs of any kind for any kind of typing. Model Fs are indeed lighter, but Model Ms feel great too. Because of the fantastic sharp actuation point of Buckling Springs they don't feel as tiring as one might expect. I use a Unicomp 122-Key Emulator Board daily, and prefer it over nearly every other keyboard I have. Only Model F 122-Key Terminal Boards feel better imho, but they are pretty expensive, you need a protocol converter and the difference is not that big. Try getting a used Model M on ebay, that's a great way to test a new switch, and much less expensive than buying a Topre or a Model F.

My personal favourites are the Cherry MX blue switches and I find them much better than the 45g topres. Like RC-1140 described with the BS switches, the blues have a sharp actuation point which make them feel very crisp and responsive. BS springs are also fantastic but require more force to actuate so you might get a bit tired if you are typing for hours. They are quite noisy switches - I would say that the blues would be acceptable in an office environment whereas BS keyboards might just be a bit too much (unless you have a private office). Buttercup, head on over to the 'Try before you buy' forum and sign yourself up to Cherry switch testers. They might take a bit of time to come around to you but it is worth it. I've been reading all the reviews etc and other user's comments but it was nothing like actually having a go yourself. I had them a couple of weeks ago and the experience was incredibly valuable and completely changed my thinking even though I have read countless numbers of reviews.

My advice: Go for the MX blues on a board like your Filco with the backplate. If you can, next go for a BS like the Model M (never tried an F). Topres are seriously overrated and not worth the premium. After reading this thread, I might see if I can try out a Model F.

For typing, rather than gaming, the hysteresis characteristics of MX Blue and buckling spring won't hurt you at all, so really, you've got a wide range of choices.

Really, try all sorts of stuff.

Personally, I like a keyboard with low initial force (~10-20 cN), moderate peak force (~50-60 cN), a sharp tactile point, a fair amount of remaining travel after the tactile point, and some hysteresis, when I'm doing a lot of typing. Closest I've gotten is the Model F. MX blue actually is closer on the force curve, but it's more of a "force bump" than a curve, and the tactile event and the keystroke transmission aren't perfectly related, whereas they are on buckling spring.

fim wrote: Where did you get the μTron and how much did it cost? I'm in Europe and I'd love to check it out but importing one from Japan will be a bit too expensive for me :/

I got it imported from Personal Media corp. They have page for international customers here: http://www.personal-media.co.jp/retail/index.html

Could be cheaper to pick up one in Japan, in person though, if you can evade the import tax (could be a lot or nothing, I don't know).

Buckling spring, definitely,
Programmer for me means accurate, small bursts of typing.

But there isn't A single trype of switches for programmers...

Gilgam is right, if there was a switch for programmers then everybody would be using it. Switches are a matter of personal preferences, it all comes down to what you like or not ; and it seems you didn't tell us what you have already tried and what you like or not with your browns. I'd like to know more on that side.

Multiple wrote:[...] what really makes programming slick is a more efficient keymap (which you would have to create by yourself, perhaps with Sharpkey or autohotkey) and being able to use your thumbs for 8 keys and your pointing fingers for 4 more keys. After remapping the layout, I'm not using pinkies much and typing code is a lot more fluent. [...]

I support that too. Switches will bring you different typing feelings, but what about your real typing comfort ? The path to enlightment might not only be made of switches but also of trying ergonomic keyboards, key remapping, alternative layouts, especially if you are doing that out of curiosity.

...anyway. Whatever you choose, you should try ergo clears. Might feel a little weird at the beginning because of the strong tactile feedback, but once you have been through the surprise it's a holy land of softness and bouncing pleasure at your fingertips. Their voice hadn't been heard yet, so I had to correct this

Multiple wrote:After remapping the layout, I'm not using pinkies much and typing code is a lot more fluent.

Mind sharing?

zulios wrote:Gilgam is right, if there was a switch for programmers then everybody would be using it. Switches are a matter of personal preferences, it all comes down to what you like or not ; and it seems you didn't tell us what you have already tried and what you like or not with your browns. I'd like to know more on that side.

Multiple wrote:[...] what really makes programming slick is a more efficient keymap (which you would have to create by yourself, perhaps with Sharpkey or autohotkey) and being able to use your thumbs for 8 keys and your pointing fingers for 4 more keys. After remapping the layout, I'm not using pinkies much and typing code is a lot more fluent. [...]

I support that too. Switches will bring you different typing feelings, but what about your real typing comfort ? The path to enlightment might not only be made of switches but also of trying ergonomic keyboards, key remapping, alternative layouts, especially if you are doing that out of curiosity.

...anyway. Whatever you choose, you should try ergo clears. Might feel a little weird at the beginning because of the strong tactile feedback, but once you have been through the surprise it's a holy land of softness and bouncing pleasure at your fingertips. Their voice hadn't been heard yet, so I had to correct this

THIS

Icarium wrote:

Multiple wrote:After remapping the layout, I'm not using pinkies much and typing code is a lot more fluent.

Mind sharing?

Didn't do an analysis that would fit everyone, just picked the first key I usually have problem to hit correctly and took it from there. I guess something might be useful, like having tab a.k.a. autocomplete near a finger, in my case that was near my left thumb. Then, I don't really like two shifts, so I just have one under my right thumb (also near enter), then arrow keys as well under my thumbs (I'm usually not using vim...). Then I rather have symmetry when typing ()[]{}<> than using my right pinky/hand, so those are on opposite sides with symmetry, using my pointing fingers. It depends on what language you usually write, so hard to say what is really good for programming, although handling arrow keys and shift should be a generic problem considering that one usually navigates and selects text (using shift), if not using vim.

I like topre, but for $625 USD + shipping, I don't need the split layout

bhtooefr wrote:For typing, rather than gaming, the hysteresis characteristics of MX Blue and buckling spring won't hurt you at all, so really, you've got a wide range of choices.

Really, try all sorts of stuff.

Personally, I like a keyboard with low initial force (~10-20 cN), moderate peak force (~50-60 cN), a sharp tactile point, a fair amount of remaining travel after the tactile point, and some hysteresis, when I'm doing a lot of typing. Closest I've gotten is the Model F. MX blue actually is closer on the force curve, but it's more of a "force bump" than a curve, and the tactile event and the keystroke transmission aren't perfectly related, whereas they are on buckling spring.

Have you tried Cherry MX Clear?

I don't think programmers have any other need in a keyboard switch than somebody else. Everybody needs something that is enjoyable and efficient to type on.

What in your opinion warrants another preferred switch for a programmer than a simple typist ?

Djuzuh: I would think most programmers focus on text input, whereas the typical user has a lot more interaction with the mouse and gui objects. If 95 percent of the time you spend on the computer is done with your hands on the keyboard, the switch you use would require more consideration. My own job requires more graphical navigation than it does data entry, so I think more about my mouse ergonomics.

reds, browns feel like they have grit in to me.

I've got a poker and put ghetto reds on the outer keys (where possible without desoldering leds) and blacks on

wert yuio
sdfg hjkl
xcvb nm,.

it feels real nice to me.

kalrykh wrote:Djuzuh: I would think most programmers focus on text input, whereas the typical user has a lot more interaction with the mouse and gui objects. If 95 percent of the time you spend on the computer is done with your hands on the keyboard, the switch you use would require more consideration. My own job requires more graphical navigation than it does data entry, so I think more about my mouse ergonomics.

Mh… Ok.

But it doesn't affect the switch choice, it only makes the swith choice more important . If brown is to be considered the perfect switch for everybody, then it's also the best switch for programmer , no?

i wouldn't say it's perfect for everyone. i would say it's suitable for anyone. it's more of the in between switch that people will use and not totally fall in love with it but not totally hate it either. i love the feel and sound of buckling spring. it's probably my preferred switch, but i rarely use it because it wears my fingers out and the constant noise contributes to headaches.

when you aren't doing a lot of typing, i'd say use whatever is most satisfying to you, based on feel, sound, etc. if you're going to be pecking away nonstop for hours on end, i'd say use what's going to cause the least amount of fatigue. that's why i think it affects switch choice. if im going to be typing a crap load, i use topres. if i want to actively enjoy the typing as im doing something, i'll use buckling springs. if i want to be a snooty dick, i'll use my filco with reds and whatever key caps i think will mess with people the most