deskthority

So after reading up on keyboards the last few weeks, and buying an MX Blue keyboard only to find that it is not really suited for gaming, it sounds like MX Red switches are what I should be looking for.

I would prefer something with a smaller layout—actually the Noppoo Choc Mini looks to be close to my ideal layout, except they don't offer it with Reds, and it doesn't work on Macs. (and personally I would prefer to see a different layout for the additional layers of keys, such as putting 5 on J rather than 1 like a regular numpad)

Ideally the keyboard would also be backlit, but that doesn't look like it's an option at all. The only backlit mechanical options I have seen are from Razer / Deck and both of them use horrible fonts and the wrong switches.


There's the KBC Poker which I am interested in, but that could be as much as 14 weeks away. I'd rather not be stuck with this awful membrane keyboard that long (it's so old that it really needs replaced now) and it would have been nice to get a new keyboard along with my new PC build.

There's the limited edition Filco with MX Reds, but the price over here seems excessive to me. It's 50% more than a Blue/Black/Brown Filco ($270 for the fullsize) almost 3x the price of the Poker, and is a US layout rather than a UK one. I do not require a UK layout, but at that price I'm not willing to make as many compromises.


Are there any other options for MX Red keyboards? Preferably they would be at least tenkeyless, if not smaller, and cheaper is better as I haven't even tried out the switches yet and don't know how suitable they will be.

Note that noppoo are coming to the EU & USA according to their website, other flaws aside I'd hope that they will be at least be offering ISO layouts: thenoppoo - where to buy

NewGuy wrote:MX Blue keyboard only to find that it is not really suited for gaming, it sounds like MX Red switches are what I should be looking for.

I do not require a UK layout, but at that price I'm not willing to make as many compromises

I share your desire for a compact, UK layout, gaming suitable keyboard.

Given the requirement for gaming, do you really want to sacrifice the ISO layout, whether UK key mapping or other? The missing \ key on the bottom left would be annoying on ANSI. I was reading the debate on geekhack re EDSF v. WSAD, then I realised the discussion is less relevant for ISO users as we already have the extra key. The CTRL, Shift modifiers are easier to reach from WSAD, so for us there is less incentive to go hunting for extra keys.

That said my idea of the ideal gaming keyboard would include extra keys and controls, but a compromise has to be accepted somewhere.

Sadly no cheaper alternatives besides the Poker. The only other board available yet with reds is the Cherry G80-3494, which costs even more than the Filco.

IanM wrote:Note that noppoo are coming to the EU & USA according to their website, other flaws aside I'd hope that they will be at least be offering ISO layouts: thenoppoo - where to buy

I didn't realise they had plans on bringing them over here. Have they announced that it will be an ISO layout rather than bringing an ANSI board over as many other manufacturers do? It's much easier to use a 'board with the extra key and bigger return that I've been used to using all my life.


Unfortunately Noppoo don't seem to offer the boards with MX Reds, and I also need Mac compatibility right now. (it's either that or having two 'boards on my desk which would get annoying quickly) If they did a 6KRO board with Reds, or changed the way they do NKRO over USB (it really isn't necessary) to be Mac compatible, I'd probably wait for one instead of the Poker. That said, if the Poker wasn't 14 weeks away, I'd be happy to get one of them because of the low price, compact size and MX Red switches.

What got me started looking for a mechanical keyboard recently, more than anything, was that my current rubber dome one is just about dead, and I'm just about to build a new system (getting back to having a proper gaming rig after probably 10+ years) and thought it'd be nice to treat myself to a new mouse and keyboard.

IanM wrote:

NewGuy wrote:MX Blue keyboard only to find that it is not really suited for gaming, it sounds like MX Red switches are what I should be looking for.

I do not require a UK layout, but at that price I'm not willing to make as many compromises

I share your desire for a compact, UK layout, gaming suitable keyboard.

Given the requirement for gaming, do you really want to sacrifice the ISO layout, whether UK key mapping or other? The missing \ key on the bottom left would be annoying on ANSI. I was reading the debate on geekhack re EDSF v. WSAD, then I realised the discussion is less relevant for ISO users as we already have the extra key. The CTRL, Shift modifiers are easier to reach from WSAD, so for us there is less incentive to go hunting for extra keys.

That said my idea of the ideal gaming keyboard would include extra keys and controls, but a compromise has to be accepted somewhere.

Interesting, I had never really thought about it that way. I thought the primary reason for switching to ESDF was so that you weren't moving off the home keys, though I do prefer that with WASD you're using Shift+Ctrl to adjust your movement in FPS games (walk/crouch) which would be trickier with ESDF.

sixty wrote:Sadly no cheaper alternatives besides the Poker. The only other board available yet with reds is the Cherry G80-3494, which costs even more than the Filco.

Actually, it looks like I could get one of those cheaper than the Filco over here, as I can get it somewhere other than The Keyboard Company. I'm not sure why the price for the Filcos are so high over here, even on Amazon USA The Keyboard Company are selling them for a much lower price and it would cost less to buy one there and have it shipped over. (but I don't want one that badly and it's stil expensive)

But that board is absolutely huge, and pretty much the opposite of what I'm looking for.


Is there a reason that MX Reds are so scarce? Are they a relatively new switch?

NewGuy wrote:I didn't realise they had plans on bringing them over here. Have they announced that it will be an ISO layout rather than bringing an ANSI board over as many other manufacturers do?

Before I noticed the where to buy page listing Germany and Ireland, I emailed to ask about ISO and UK + EU layouts. No reply sadly, but I used 'others' from the contact page. Maybe the marketing dept. would be more responsive? The lack of Mac support seems a strange oversight, but we can only guess what other revisions noppoo may make. Not holding my breath for anything soon though, and the lack of reply to a customer enquiry isn't inspiring any confidence.

NewGuy wrote:I thought the primary reason for switching to ESDF was so that you weren't moving off the home keys,

You're probably right, but playing games isn't typing, so I tend not to think about how to make game controls more like typing. I don't think there is a right or wrong way of looking at this.

Blacklit is suck for a mechanical keyboard. It wont make you PRO with the light. I was regret getting Razer keyboard with that light too.

Zandara wrote:Blacklit is suck for a mechanical keyboard. It wont make you PRO with the light. I was regret getting Razer keyboard with that light too.

I'm used to Macs where every keyboard for the last 5+ years I've used has been backlit. I mostly touch-type but it is useful for things like the symbols at a glance and if you're gaming, so you don't lose your place on the keys after hitting something that's off to the side when things get frantic. (downside to WASD vs ESDF is the lack of a nub)


It's not like I'm looking at the keys all the time, but being able to see them in the dark is useful. Same reason that there are a lot of touch-typists that don't like using "Otaku" boards with black-on-black or blank keys.

I'm not sure how the backlighting could have been any better on the BlackWidow Ultimate. It would have been nice if the whole cap lit up, but due to the placement for LEDs with Cherry switches I don't know that it could be any better. That was the least of its problems though. If I'm spending anything more than a BlackWidow Ultimate costs (the Filco MX Red costs 50% more here) especially if it's a tenkeyless or compact board compared to the BWU being a full 'board, it had better be backlit.

Compared red switches to brown switches, which one is more suited for gaming? I've been thinking about getting either one.

someone said something very interesting, so i'd like to give this as an answer to your question, rokccf:

in games where you immediately see the result of your action, eg. fps, you don't need any tactile bump.

however, i did not understand his reasoning about RTS needing tactile bumps, but that's for you to decide i guess. i'm really not sure, either, which switch to get. brown or red. maybe even black. i have never used a mechanical keyboard before and am still typing on my $15 rubberdome cherry. i don't know how much force is required for them to bottom out and i don't know if i would accidently misclick any of the keys if i were to go for reds.

i play the piano so fatigue is not really a problem. i can keep on hammering my piano for hours without having the slightest feeling of fatigue in my fingers, so maybe i'm even better suited for blacks (which i might bottom out then). i don't really know if i can adjust to "not bottoming out" on either reds or browns. it's a very difficult question for me and i wish i could test the keyboards somewhere. here in germany, however, that is not possible. too bad.

i'd say buy both boards and decide on one, send the other back. i know this is usually not a good way of doing things but given the circumstances it's unavoidable. i think your reseller of choice wouldn't be too harmed by it, either, given he sells at least one product. that's probably the way i'm going to aim for. however, shipping cost to england is a lot, so i might reconsider.

maybe i win the raffle going on in this forum till 19th.

I did not like the tactile bump that MX Blues have at all so I personally will be avoiding anything using them when gaming. Everyone seems to complain about blacks being too 'heavy' which is what has me wanting an MX Red keyboard.


My only concern is that with a membrane keyboard, the keys actuate at the bottom of the switch and so double-tapping is done very easily by bottoming out, letting the key rise up slightly and bottoming out again.

With mechanical switches, the actuation point is higher up, and I am somewhat concerned that even with MX Reds, double-tapping is going to be more difficult as a result of this extra height.

With my MX Blue board, I often found myself not letting up on the key enough (or only letting up until I hit the bump) to perform a double-tap and it was being registered as still holding the key down.


I really do wish that someone would come out with a backlit mechanical that not only gives you a choie of switch (or at least the option of Reds) but also uses decent keycaps and a normal font rather than something weird like the Razers/Decks use. It would also be nice if you could choose something other than blue LEDs, my preference would probably be red/orange or white.

That's just the MX Blues. Some people on overclock are still in denial.

using a blue switch spring on a black switch, u'll get a ghetto red. at least it feels almost the same to me.

hmm, you can game just fine on ANY keyboard, the mx blues aren't THAT much worse than the alternatives, it is not like a mouse (which is crucial). If you're just playing FPS games, you don't need to worry.

FPS games? To me, black suits me the best in FPS like Black Ops :p

yeah, I mean blacks are probably ideal, but seeing as how most hate it for typing, browns seem the best choice

sorry for the off-topic:
is there any guide for creating your own switch-opener ( or whatever you call it ) and how do you open up you switch?

This is what i've saw on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GivKt63dLvA

My current favorite tool for doing this is a nail pick from a manicure set. Works nicely.

Where to buy keyboards with Red MX switches is here: WW Shopping Guide>By Country>By Switch.

If someone copied it or made it a sticky I wouldn't always have to post RTFW.

lucidlts wrote:sorry for the off-topic:
is there any guide for creating your own switch-opener ( or whatever you call it ) and how do you open up you switch?

This is what i've saw on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GivKt63dLvA

I suggest to look up Half_Saint's method. It is by far superior to the fork of doom:

http://onlyageek.blogspot.com/2011/02/v ... -swap.html

ripster wrote:Where to buy keyboards with Red MX switches is here: WW Shopping Guide>By Country>By Switch.

If someone copied it or made it a sticky I wouldn't always have to post RTFW.

Go add this one! http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=408

TaoBao. Ugh. I'll wait until it becomes commonly available like the Geekhack Leopold with Reds. Oh, bad example.

sixty wrote:

lucidlts wrote:sorry for the off-topic:
is there any guide for creating your own switch-opener ( or whatever you call it ) and how do you open up you switch?

This is what i've saw on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GivKt63dLvA

I suggest to look up Half_Saint's method. It is by far superior to the fork of doom:

http://onlyageek.blogspot.com/2011/02/v ... -swap.html

holy @@
that was something! thanks for the info~

lucidlts wrote:

sixty wrote:

lucidlts wrote:sorry for the off-topic:
is there any guide for creating your own switch-opener ( or whatever you call it ) and how do you open up you switch?

This is what i've saw on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GivKt63dLvA

I suggest to look up Half_Saint's method. It is by far superior to the fork of doom:

http://onlyageek.blogspot.com/2011/02/v ... -swap.html

holy @@
that was something! thanks for the info~

Also I use the method a bit different than shown in the video. If you want to, you can skip the step with the screwdriver. After opening the switch on one side, you can push down the stem with your finger and slide the whole switch open. For me this worked out even faster than the method shown in the video... but see which works best for yourself.

I am now feeling compelled to take apart my switches just out of curiosity... If it doesn't go well, I guess I'll have another good excuse to buy another board!

It's not that difficult really (heck, if I can do it, almost anyone can). I got by with a single 2.0 mm flat head precision screwdriver in the end. Just be careful not to have switch internals flying all over the room, and whatever you do, don't mess with the metal parts used for making contact.

I wish I had enough money to buy MX Red switch keyboard D:

well I was in the same situation as the original poster and then I finally put my money where my mouth is and bought the Filco with the MX Reds, and let me tell you this it was worth every penny lol it is such an easy to type on, not tried any gaming yet but I'll probably get around to that soon-ish