deskthority

Where can I buy a overall good keyboard with MX Clears?

Or is my only hope to search for a PCB mounted MX kybrd and then swap the switches?

I don't care about the size.

g80-3000 are available on amazon i think.

Yes I already have one of those but I'm not completely satisfied with it (feels and looks so cheap, which it is).

Deck Keyboards is the only thing I found to have MX Clear but they are pretty expensive and come with (imo) ugly keycaps so I was wondering if there are any alternatives to that.

You don't happen to have a NIB or mint (vintage) MX Clear board ? ^^

Aren't there Leopold keyboards with Clears? I'm not sure about this, but I think I heard about them.

I have several G80-3000 boards and they're all PCB mounted, so you should be able to remove the switches and then swap them into another keyboard. Granted, plate-mounted keyboards can be a hassle to do a switch-swap on, but then you'd have the layout and build you wanted.

Leopold FC700R with MX Clears would be nice.
Would taobao be the best place to get them? Or http://www.leopold.co.kr/


EDIT: I can't find any with MX Clears. But I do know that they where announced and that the 500 one used to be with MX Clears on EK, but not anymore.

I wonder how many people want clears? Would it be enough to justify the Keyboard Company carrying Filcos with clears?

I am looking forwards to comparing clears with Matias Quiet Switches.

Leopold FC200 in clears was limited, also Keycool with clears limited. Best reccomendation from me is to get a G81-3000 plate, put a sheet of rubber over it and install it under your G80 pcb. That mod makes the board very solid feeling.
There was also some G80-3000 switch mount plate made for aftermarket, you can find them on taobao sometimes.

As far as the description goes, Clears sounds like something I will really like. But I'm on a budget so I will wait until something really cheap appears to try them.

Clears are … interesting. You can bottom out clears, but you'll wear your fingers to the bone if you keep it up. They feel like the force curve goes almost asymptotic at the end. It's a weird switch, and I find that I'm never quite comfortable with hitting that high rise in force. I can certainly live with it and use them relatively contentedly, but it certainly makes me more curious about ergo clears.

The only alternative for a quiet, tactile metal contact switch would be the Matias Quiet Switch, which I presume has the high loading common to all Alps-type switches that makes them fatiguing in themselves.

At the moment though, I've gone back to browns.

Does the matias quiet switch require as much force as a MX Clear?

MX Brown, Blue, etc is just to light for me.

Matias switches are 60 cN with high loading. MX clear is 55 cN with low loading. Matias switches will be stiffer to press, but they'll bottom out normally without the rapid force build-up that makes clears feel weird.

"Loading" in this case is preload (initial force)?

I guess — where the switch won't move unless you give it all 60 cN in one hard push.

trax wrote:Where can I buy a overall good keyboard with MX Clears?

Or is my only hope to search for a PCB mounted MX kybrd and then swap the switches?

I don't care about the size.

Get one with vintage blacks and get the clears from me.

Then swap the stems and springs and sell the vintage blacks.

7bit wrote:

trax wrote:Where can I buy a overall good keyboard with MX Clears?

Or is my only hope to search for a PCB mounted MX kybrd and then swap the switches?

I don't care about the size.

Get one with vintage blacks and get the clears from me.

Then swap the stems and springs and sell the vintage blacks.

Keyboard would have to be PCB-mounted since I have no clue about soldering..

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:Clears are … interesting. You can bottom out clears, but you'll wear your fingers to the bone if you keep it up.

i hardly bottom out with clears. something magic about that switch.

the only reason why model m and its relatives might be better (in my not so humble opinion) is in the bottoming out feedback you receive. the only switch with prognosis capabilities. it surely will signal whether your fingers need rest.

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:Clears are … interesting. You can bottom out clears, but you'll wear your fingers to the bone if you keep it up. They feel like the force curve goes almost asymptotic at the end.

Really? I've never used modern MX clears, but I have boards with vintage clears and they're nothing like that. Either modern clears are a lot heavier than vintage ones, or people overstate how heavy they are.

I'd describe vintage clears as feeling similar in weight to vintage blacks -- a bit lighter than modern blacks, and also without the scratchy feel. There's no click, but they're not comparable to browns at all. The tactility actually feels more like blues. A clear board would make a good substitute for a Model M IMHO.

urbanus wrote:

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:Clears are … interesting. You can bottom out clears, but you'll wear your fingers to the bone if you keep it up. They feel like the force curve goes almost asymptotic at the end.

Really? I've never used modern MX clears, but I have boards with vintage clears and they're nothing like that. Either modern clears are a lot heavier than vintage ones, or people overstate how heavy they are.

I'd describe vintage clears as feeling similar in weight to vintage blacks -- a bit lighter than modern blacks, and also without the scratchy feel. There's no click, but they're not comparable to browns at all. The tactility actually feels more like blues. A clear board would make a good substitute for a Model M IMHO.

I only have 1 vintage clears board but comparing it to that I can say that the modern ones have stronger springs (but maybe the spring on the vintage one are just worn).

trax wrote:I only have 1 vintage clears board but comparing it to that I can say that the modern ones have stronger springs (but maybe the spring on the vintage one are just worn).

I've got two. One is in almost-new condition, the other has a fair bit of shine. In both cases, the keys are consistent across the board, including the keys no-one ever uses and are not worn at all (Prt Sc, Scroll Lock and Pause). So you could be right about the springs being lighter.

Edit: I performed a slightly more scientific comparison with Ripometer, using Aussie 5c coins (2.83g). A larger sample size would be required for better precision, but this is what I came up with. Weight in grams required to push the key to actuation:

Vintage MX blacks: 68g
Vintage MX clears: 71g

So vintage clears are slightly heavier than vintage blacks, but not by a noticeable amount. And I certainly wouldn't describe them as being finger-breakingly heavy, by any means.

I have an Leo FC200 with clears. Elite carries them from time to time. Even though he said he wouldn't carry them again, he did. Being a Model M guy, I bottom the hell out of everything and I did find the clears to get tiring after a few hours. My true goal was to put the clear stems in my Filco with blues, which I did. The FC200 now has blue stems and clear springs.

As to the spring, clears have a unique spring. Oddly, the "ghetto-greens" in the FC200 (blue stems, clear springs) are softer than the real greens in my recently-acquired CFR. Greens appear to have the same stem design as blues and the spring appears the same as blacks. So that implies that the clear spring is softer than the black spring. The tactile bump plays a part in actuation resistance of the switch, so that would explain why switch force of clears is higher than blacks, even when the springs may be softer.

I'm not setup to actually measure the spring force.