deskthority

Hi folks, first time poster.

I found Deskthority in the search for my first mechanical keyboard. Guess I dived in at the deep end! Which is good, because I'm always full of questions. I'd appreciate your collective wisdom.

I write a lot (for a peek check out my writing project at http://andala.org which is my space opera in progress) so I'm particularly drawn to tactile keyboards. I do game a little but not much. I'm also pretty lightweight on my keys, and even the cheap boards I've used live long lives. Like anyone who first used computers in the 80s or earlier, the sound of clicky keyboards haunts my memory. Seems that's what I'm after.

Blue Cherry MX switches, right? Light and loud!

Right now I mostly write with my Apple Wireless Keyboard. You know what they're like. Pretty, lightweight, convenient and, of course, quite expensive. But what it lacks is that tactile touch. It's literally the keyboard from a MacBook. It has its strengths, but feel is not one of them.

Tenkeyless definitely appeals to me. I love having the mouse closer to my right hand, whether writing or even gaming. Never had much use for bopping digits.

And Bluetooth, too, is great because my Macs all have it built in (or as a dongle: I run several quite old ones) as does the iPad and the Asus tower under the desk. This means I can save a lot of desk space, using one keyboard all round. I could live without Bluetooth, but it is quite the feature for me.

But then I saw the backlit Duckys. Now that's something I could really use in the long Scottish dark! They're great on MacBooks, as the brightness can go quite low. I'm pretty photosensitive when I'm cranking away through words in near darkness, so a subtle backlight is what I'm really looking for. Apparently the Ducky Shine II is anything but dim on everything but its faintest setting. Do you think I'd be better with a red backlight than white? It's the photographer's darkroom lighting colour for good reason. I just wonder how high cranked Ducky does it.

I also hear good things about Filco. In particular this mini review by a fellow writer on the Mac:
http://shawnblanc.net/2012/09/review-te ... keyboards/

I'm tempted right now between a Filco Tenkeyless Majestouch Ninja (for around £120 here, or less if I go with non-Ninja keys) and, of course, the Ducky Shine II for £106.

http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_30126.html
http://www.cclonline.com/product/97629/ ... d/KBD0541/

More features on the Ducky, that's for sure. Is there any reason not to choose it over the Filco?

My only doubt about both these keyboards right now is whether there's Bluetooth versions on the way. I do love switching around between computers, so it is a real plus for me. Though I suppose it's a choice between that and a backlight, right? Since I've already got a Bluetooth keyboard that suits my wireless needs, I could easily go with USB, really.

Or am I better waiting?

Also: where's the USB hub in these high end keyboards? I honestly don't know why neither has it. That's one nice thing about going USB: plugging in other stuff with immediate convenience. Oh well.

And finally also: what's the word on keycap material on said Majestouch and Shine II? I can likely live with ABS, it's surely what every other keyboard I've used is capped with, because my only mark of use is lots of shine. I gather that replacing keys on the Shine II would probably wreck the character visibility of the backlights?

Anyway, I hope my meandering hasn't bored you too thoroughly. Feel free to suggest any other kind of keyboard you think demands my consideration. (Is there such a thing as a tenkeyless buckling spring? I'm keen on a keyboard with audio feedback as it helps me keep my flow, but maybe even I have my limits. It's been decades since I played with one of those.) I bow to your expertise and seek to gain some of my own!

The Filco uses Costar stabilisers, most people seem to prefer this, whereas Ducky uses Cherry stabilisers, although this is mostly down to personal preference.
I think Filco might have a fullsize bluetooth board on the way, but not TKL version as far as I know.
Ducky offers PBT caps as standard on most of their boards it seems, much better than the stock Filco caps, although I believe the backlit models are ABS.

Not all that relevant; personally I don't want a USB hub on my keyboards as it makes the board more expensive and clunky for an unreliable USB port, if you want half-decent ones you'll need an additional power cable to power the USB hub.


If you want a tenkeyless buckling spring-like MX board then see if you can get a Ducky or QFR with greens, those seem to be preferred by BS users, although the QFR with greens is US only, so no ISO layout as well as higher price. Not sure about the availability of the Ducky with greens either.

Well, in my opinon Filco is more solid and "tanky", but If you really need LEDs pick up Ducky! There is no blue tooth versions of Filcos and Duckies as I know.
I own Filco keyboard and I don't have any USB ports in it (obviously). If lack of LEDs is not a problem for you, I highly recommend Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless. Filco's keycaps are made from Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene. Glad to help. If I did.




Che-che http://www.diatec.co.jp/products/det.php?prod_c=890

vun wrote:The Filco uses Costar stabilisers, most people seem to prefer this, whereas Ducky uses Cherry stabilisers, although this is mostly down to personal preference.

I've come to the right place! Never even heard of stabilisers until now. Just the kind of detail I like to learn about. They're more of a concern to heavier typists, I presume, who pound a lot?

vun wrote:I think Filco might have a fullsize bluetooth board on the way, but not TKL version as far as I know.
Ducky offers PBT caps as standard on most of their boards it seems, much better than the stock Filco caps, although I believe the backlit models are ABS.

Since keycap material isn't mentioned anywhere in Ducky's marketing for the Shine II, I bet you're right. A bit disappointing for the Filco, though.

vun wrote:Not all that relevant; personally I don't want a USB hub on my keyboards as it makes the board more expensive and clunky for an unreliable USB port, if you want half-decent ones you'll need an additional power cable to power the USB hub.

I understand why many people dislike them as points of failure. Fortunately, of the several USB boards I've used, I've had zero USB port or cable failures; and counting. Not the same tale for mice however!

vun wrote:If you want a tenkeyless buckling spring-like MX board then see if you can get a Ducky or QFR with greens, those seem to be preferred by BS users, although the QFR with greens is US only, so no ISO layout as well as higher price. Not sure about the availability of the Ducky with greens either.

I'm quite comfortable on a US layout keyboard. The main thing I'd need to do with any layout is swap around the Windows and Alt keys on either side so I get my Control-Option-Command-Spacebar-Command-Option-Control order right. Lots of muscle memory for Mac shortcuts with all of those.

Scheider wrote:Well, in my opinon Filco is more solid and "tanky", but If you really need LEDs pick up Ducky! There is no blue tooth versions of Filcos and Duckies as I know.
I own Filco keyboard and I don't have any USB ports in it (obviously). If lack of LEDs is not a problem for you, I highly recommend Filco Majestouch 2 Tenkeyless. Filco's keycaps are made from Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene. Glad to help. If I did.

Of course you did! I've read around a fair bit on people's impressions of both keyboards, but they're rarely put head to head and compared directly. Filco seems to be highly regarded for heavy duty physical quality. While Ducky has its fans, and skeptics, depending on how people respond to the glitzy feature heavy style.

If Majestouch and Shine are close in physical feel, I'm leaning toward Ducky. Especially as Filco is harder to find here.

The convertible Bluetooth / USB model you linked is exactly the kind of thing I expect is right around the corner.

One thing about mechanicals that hasn't been mentioned yet is the different key profiles.
Afaik they both use the tall OEM (asian) profile. Should you later want the lower cherry profile you're in for some keycap hunting... which can be fun, but will also drain your wallet.

Muirium wrote:
I've come to the right place! Never even heard of stabilisers until now. Just the kind of detail I like to learn about. They're more of a concern to heavier typists, I presume, who pound a lot?


I understand why many people dislike them as points of failure. Fortunately, of the several USB boards I've used, I've had zero USB port or cable failures; and counting. Not the same tale for mice however!

Stabilisers are a concern to everyone as they are on all the larger keys, spacebar, enter etc.
If the stabilisers aren't good then there will be a noticeable difference in feel between regular keys and stabilised keys, Cherry stabilisers can make the keys feel mushy, although this can be solved by lubing them or, if you have a PCB mounted board, clipping off part of the stabiliser. Costar stabilisers generally feel better, although they have their downsides as well, but I can't list them off the top of my head because I don't really hear a lot about them. Unless you know exactly what you want, don't let this be a make-or-break thing, really.

As for the USB ports, I don't find them unreliable as points of failure, although that is also a valid complaint, it's more that you never know if they've got enough power to drive whatever you plug in or if you'll get halfway decent speeds, I prefer using a powered USB hub instead. Having USB ports on the monitor is a far better idea.

Jmneuv wrote:One thing about mechanicals that hasn't been mentioned yet is the different key profiles.
Afaik they both use the tall OEM (asian) profile. Should you later want the lower cherry profile you're in for some keycap hunting... which can be fun, but will also drain your wallet.

Good point. I'm so used to flat laptop keyboards (including my Apple Wireless Keyboard) that I'm in for quite a change anyway. Certainly, I'd like to get the caps right on purchase. Collecting is fun, but I've too many collections already!

vun wrote:Stabilisers are a concern to everyone as they are on all the larger keys, spacebar, enter etc.
If the stabilisers aren't good then there will be a noticeable difference in feel between regular keys and stabilised keys, Cherry stabilisers can make the keys feel mushy, although this can be solved by lubing them or, if you have a PCB mounted board, clipping off part of the stabiliser. Costar stabilisers generally feel better, although they have their downsides as well, but I can't list them off the top of my head because I don't really hear a lot about them. Unless you know exactly what you want, don't let this be a make-or-break thing, really.

Noted. Never noticed them before. But another point for Filco. Whose Ninja (front marked key caps with blank tops) is, I am told, available with Cherry blues here sometime in the month. I could only find the browns before.

As for the USB ports, I don't find them unreliable as points of failure, although that is also a valid complaint, it's more that you never know if they've got enough power to drive whatever you plug in or if you'll get halfway decent speeds, I prefer using a powered USB hub instead. Having USB ports on the monitor is a far better idea.

Yes, that's for sure. Especially with just the one setup. I move around a bit too much for simplicity, though.

The frequent use things I have in mind though are low powered: mouse, camera card reader and my Samson Meteor Mic for Skype and recording music. Love that microphone.

If you have patience, there's the WASD v2 keyboard coming out soon, which has quite a bit of features like layout selection (qwerty/dvorak/colemak), mac mode, etc, and a backlit version. The main niche of WASD is fully customizable keycaps, but the keyboards are such good quality that people buy them without necessarily customizing them:

http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/blog

sordna wrote:If you have patience, there's the WASD v2 keyboard coming out soon, which has quite a bit of features like layout selection (qwerty/dvorak/colemak), mac mode, etc, and a backlit version. The main niche of WASD is fully customizable keycaps, but the keyboards are such good quality that people buy them without necessarily customizing them:

http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/blog

Indeed. I did see that in my hunting, but can't figure out where to buy any WASD gear here in Britain. Even the stuff that's out now. Annoying, as the switch / key cap / ring sampler looks like fun.

They ship internationally, but that would probably cost $50-$60 for Scotland...

sordna wrote:They ship internationally, but that would probably cost $50-$60 for Scotland...

Sounds likely. And 20% tax waiting on pickup, courtesy of Her Majesty's Customs and Excise. Then hope nothing ever needs returned…

UK importers: WASD please!

Do what I did and a lot of people on here end up doing: get obsessed with keyboards, buy a bunch of them to try them all out, and then come back here and sell them.

prdlm2009 wrote:Do what I did and a lot of people on here end up doing: get obsessed with keyboards, buy a bunch of them to try them all out, and then come back here and sell them.

Trying to fight the impulse!

Well what have we here?

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/fil ... t5095.html



Even looks like a hub on this little guy. Intrigued…