deskthority

Good afternoon chaps,

I am very new to DT and the world of mechanical keyboards. I joined the GeekHack a few months ago, mainly in the hunt for better keycaps for my FILCO TK Cherry Brown board, and within this short membership, have just taken delivery of a little beauty made available via a Group Buy. There has been much debate/ discussion on this already, and as I commented previously, on this forum and on GH, much it this discuss was coming from those without the physical item in front of them. Hating Chinese made products for no obvious reason other than they are Chinese.

How they feel it possible to pass judgement is beyond me! But this is another discussion for another time!

Here are my initial thoughts on this wonderful little board:

Mechanical perfection...? Of course there are some caveats, like with everything in life, but I can already report this little thing feels like an old friend. I drive a 18-year Mercedes-Benz E-Class, and this too feels like an old friend. If you close your eyes behind the wheel of any E-Class from that period (1980s to late 1990s), and place your hands on the wheel at 10 and 2pm, everything: switches, indicator stalks, seat controls, buttons etc fall into place and are within easy reach. They seem to be in the right place for you to access. Essentially, you can easily operate the car, without opening your eyes or looking at the manual. Its predictable and a sign that someone really thought about where things should go. They didn't do anything because cost was a primary factor.

This is exactly how this board feels to me. I am typing this and it feels like I've been using it for years. The layout for me is almost perfect... the feeling is great, a lovely sound, almost Topre in quality of sound in-fact, but I'll do a direct comparison with the HHKB tomorrow afternoon. To date I have only heard Topre keys on YouTube videos.

There is no flex in the case, it all looks straight and really solid. I am comparing it directly to the FILCO beast that has been pushed to one side for the time being. The FILCO has the benefit of o-rings installed, and I think these for me at least, will be essential, but even without, the feeling, the solidity, the texture are all top quality and I am an exacting person, when it comes to the little details.

This board is great, highly recommended.

The keycaps are a lovely mid grey and the font is a personal preference, but I really like it. The 'enjoy your feeling' is clearly my only aesthetic gripe. They have ruined what is otherwise something almost perfect out of the box. The keycaps are wonderful in weight, and I intend to take some photos in a few moments, showing just how thick they are. On some of the key caps, I'd say about two, I can just about make out the stalk mark on the other side, holding the cap to the switch, again I'll take photos to better explain myself, but this, within a matter of days will go I'm sure, once the 'edge' has been taken off. As with anything made of plastic, its just a matter of using it for a few days, I have found in my limited experience.

If I am feeling brave, I'll do a video review but for now, I will enjoy my new toy and of course, this little beauty will travel with me, everything I go. The only point for me getting a 60% board.

In conclusion, this has been an excellent first exposure to world of group buys and really the quality of this board really speaks for itself. I think this board offers incredible value for money and without any unnecessary hype about quality, exclusivity etc.

Naturally, a full follow up review will come after the summer, once I've used this thing for about 50,000 words of my PhD, and it has some battle scars from travelling in my Barbour coat pocket, on a scooter, whizzing through London traffic!

With kindest regards to all,
ShivaYash
London

Glad to hear you've found such a good match in the Poker II. If it weren't for the typeface on its keycaps, I'd likely own one right now as well. Like the original Poker, it's a fabulous form factor. The line about carrying it around town on your scooter is exactly right! Less is sometimes so much more.

While it's true that I and others were critical of the new Poker, I don't recall anyone flat out hating it. Like I said, it's a compelling keyboard, which is why it caught my eye, but its downsides are vital ones for me. The function layer makes or breaks a 60%. The Poker II's programmability is welcome, but falls short of what I want, personally. The physical layout also lacks the keys that I'd like to redefine in the first place. It's almost there, in most regards, but not quite. A soldered controller makes that shortfall permanent.

I doubt you'll find the HHKB significantly better on first sight than you find your Poker II. Especially when accounting for the differential in price. What makes the HHKB for me – and yes, I do not own one yet! – is the combination of Topre switches and its very well thought out function layer. Topre switches are the opposite of striking, the first time you touch them. I've only played with them a little myself, so far, but popular opinion does appear to be right. If you like a subtle feeling keyboard, aimed for the later hours of your writing session more than the first, Topre is a strong option. Just don't expect to be wowed like the first time you clicked a Cherry MX blue.

As for layout, the HHKB borrows a lot from the keyboards Apple shipped with the Mac since the beginning. Namely the symmetric placement of Command and Option keys around the space bar, for thumb-driven key shortcuts. I simply can't stand where Control lives on most keyboards, as it's surely a prime factor in many people's RSI; something I have banged on about before! What the HHKB has added is much needed indeed: a function key on a sensible row of the keyboard, Control put back where it belongs, and an end to the madness of Delete's exile to Siberia! Quickly put: the HHKB has most all of the fundamental design decisions that I care about already baked in. The Poker, I'd need to hack. And, alas, it is not apparently as easily done as some others.

All I can say about exclusivity is that in these circles at least, HHKBs show up fairly frequently, so it's not a matter of unabashed scarcity and mystique that makes me think highly of that keyboard. It's the thought put into its layout, it's the key switches, it's the choice of colours and legends, and it's the fortunate evidence of its makers' sanity in choosing Helvetica to put across the face of their keyboard instead of something off a shareware CD.

If the HHKB cost £100 instead, the only difference to me is that I would already own one.

In any case, the more 60% keyboards are out there, the better. Because every keyboard, like every product and indeed every endeavour in life, is the sum of its compromises. The Poker II does not compromise on price. As you've found in your own two hands: it really is a striking package in value. Commendable!

Wow I really read both posts in full. Nicely written. I like my poker 1 as well and dont see any reason to buy the II. But I would like to type on it to see how it feels with those keycaps on those plate mounted switches.

As for comparison with the HHKB. I like both equally.

Thanks for your kind words. It was just a quick write up. I intend to do a fuller write up shortly. I also have a HHKB now so will do a comparison, perhaps a written one to start with when I find some spare time, and then, if I am feeling brave, I'll do my first ever YouTube video.

With best wishes,

Hi all and thanks for the write up.

I'll post my impressions on the poker 2 when I get mine.

I just missed the group order on GeekHack but QTAN had some more Poker 2s to sell both on eBay and on his store so I have ordered one from the former with blue switches. I intend to use this keyboard mainly for typing as I don't play games but write quite a lot and was fed up with the crappy board I use at work and not fully satisfied with my MacBook Air's scissor switches.
This is going the first time I own a brand new mechanical keyboard. I have an Apple Extended Keyboard II at home I really like but as I write mainly at work, I had to find another solution. I would not want to carry around such a large keyboard neither am I willing to fiddle under desks all day with an adapter and this monster as I change desks quite often during the day for my writing.
So I'll see if my coworkers notice the difference when I'll use the blue switches. They tend to hammer their mushy keyboards anyway. I'll soon know if I'll have to add O-rings or get fired. I was quite hesitant about the switch choice. I couldn't test any of them as I live in an area where computer store people tell you that there is no such thing as a mechanical keyboard... The only test I could make was with a cherry-integrated-trackpad thing I noticed in our IT dept. I has black switches so I tested it. That helped me to know I'm not after the black ones.

Anyway, sorry for getting a bit deep into detail here, but I'm looking forward to reading your review ShivaYash. I will post mine maybe in 10 days or so when I'll get mine.

-Guillaume

Blues will be interesting, Guillaume. They're the switch I'd choose, but my office is at home! Co-workers will be your test.

guillaume kuster wrote:...I'm looking forward to reading your review ShivaYash. I will post mine maybe in 10 days or so when I'll get mine.

-Guillaume

Do you mean the Poker review or the HHKB? I'm still in love with the former. I opted for Browns and have fitted o-rings. It's pure silk. I'll do a video soon.

ShivaYash wrote: Do you mean the Poker review or the HHKB?

I mean the Poker review. Even if I'll be getting mine shortly, It will be nice to read your thoughts while waiting for the package to come.

My initial thoughts are above and haven't really changed at all. I love this board. See the first post of this thread.

Order some o-rings now as they make all the difference. I have some 50s knocking about so used them. They reduce the travel by 0.4mm.

'Enjoy the feeling'.... [WINKING FACE]

Is this keyboard plate mounted or PCB mounted, I have the KBT pure 60%, it was a cute little kb but I hated it for the wobble it had, totally ruined the typing experience.

I wonder how much a plate contributes to wobble. I would think it doesn't help anything for that as it is a property of the switch, not so much of its mounting.

I'd say there's different flavours of wobble. Think of it like a lever. If the pivot (or fulcrum to please your physics teacher) is close to the cap — you really feel the curve on the wobble — it could well be the switch's fault. But even a nice tight switch can wobble if the PCB flexes underneath it. For a wider area wobble — affecting several keys at once for instance – PCB is to blame.

A plate neutralises PCB flexing as it's a nice tough sheet of metal put in just the right place to take the forces. A PCB is inherently flexible, and will always bend between its mount points to the case. Some people like the wobble it introduces. Some don't. For those of us who like the whole thing to be tight: get a plate.

Cherry MX switches aren't the best performers when it comes to introducing another layer of wobble. Some individual switches can just stink. Topre is probably the least wobbly switch of all. Though Topre's always come on plates from what I've heard. Albeit a plastic one in the HHKB!