deskthority

Hello, I got a new μTRON, but it has a problem...

One key only requires 10-15g of force to be pressed. It's key 7. Every other key is fine.

The problematic key feels normal when pressing it, it has an initial resistance the first two millimeters of key travel, then it collapses. It's just ridiculously light.

Does this sound like any known issue with Topre switches?

On GH, Ripster mentioned that the dome might be misaligned?

I guess one would have to open the keyboard to find out, anyone tried to open a μTRON?

I'd try to get a replacement. Price is too high for such a quality issue to be acceptable.

Not getting any response from them so I figure I better get prepared to fix it myself, if possible.

Haven't opened mine, but if you search for looks inside HHKB or Realforce keyboards, you will see the rubber domes and little springs beneath them, so you know what to expect. I'd check both the dome and spring for a simple fix, such as a misalignment or whatever.

I would also suggest to contact their support (maybe even have someone help you translate the message to Japanese if you speak no Japanese) instead of opening it up first. Did you import the board directly or did you get it from some other source?

If all fails, you may still be able to just return it to the vendor and get a replacement.

Yes, opening might in fact invalid your warranty. And at this price point there is no discussion possible, they should replace it instead of you having to deal with the fault. Although I don't know how you got it. I got mine through a Japanese shopping service, and all of the shopping/bidding services in Asia I tried have no return service or warranty and totally fail in that regard. They won't take any responsibility - if something happens, you lose. If you know a service which does better, I'm all ears.

Imported directly, but it was a one-off thing for them, just for this time.

I have a feeling they'll try to spin it as "after sales support" (which they stressed would not be available for me, only japanese customers would be eligible for that), if they ever answer that is. I doubt it...

In the mean time, I'll be remapping around this shitty key.

The problem is not the language, they speak excellent English.

I suppose it would be possible to mail the keyboard to a buddy in Japan and let him do my bidding, but, that's just cumbersome.

sixty's advice is probably the best though, just mail it and demand a refund / replacement..

This picture made me tear up.


4.10 g to be precise. Accurate at sea level.


Oh wait. Maybe the OP's pic isn't a dime.

Nvm.

The way he balances that stack on a Topre, the measurement is worth nothing. Because the ripometer has an inherent insignificance of two coins to start with (one coin because of the interval, one for measurement inaccuracies such as not perfect balanced coins). But with my own measurements I found the Topre switch also the hardest to measure. First, you have to take an average of multiple keys as you can see from the numbers. Second, if you slightly shift the weights on the keys, like a mm to the left, it makes a large difference in required force. It is a characteristic of the Topre (maybe rubber domes in general), unlike, for example, a Model F, where you measure the same if you put the weight in the corner of the key or in the center. Of course, these are the kind of details you won't find with the ripometer. And this all implies that if you measure a single Topre key with the ripometer and declare something about the total board, you could be right, but you could also be 3 coins off. I'm more accurate with guessing the required force by feeling with my fingers.

I've told the seller, in case he sees this picture: it is not a measurement with precision, but a demonstration.

Since these keycaps are sculpted, in different sizes, weight and angles, keycaps must be removed before any accurate measurements can be done. That said, every switch measured must face perfectly upward if gravity is involved. A high precision measurement is however uncalled for...Using multiple measurements, Topres tolerances, the pressures of the market place and then some induction, given a degree in mathematics, I managed to estimate the force required to be about 1/3 compared to other switches. It's a miracle of common sense, not an exact science.

That and it's not possible to rest the slightest tip of my pinky on the key...

I wet my index finger, point it upwards to estimate wind velocity, then with an arc descend to the key, press it, and declare it as good or bad.

Maybe you got a variable weight one?
Seriously for such a high price you expect better

Never doubt the RipOMeter, I always say...

Here comes keyboardlover with another fine list of arguments. Well, that settles it. What would we do without such valuable contributions and pearls of wisdom in our forum?

Who did what in the what now?

I'd just like to comment that we don't usually put women on our coins.


Pocahantas. Sacajaweja (not correct spelling but since I can never say it right who gives a fuck). Martha Washington. Susan B. Anthony.

None of these coins proved popular. The American public doesn't respond well to the concept of a matriarchal society.

Technically the Euro dime should be pretty easy to center on the switch. Use glue and an angle.

How much does the glue weigh, measured in coins?

Handy tables with precalculated weights

http://www.rubinghscience.org/surv/euroweights1.html

Bdw when wen I was in short of coins I used an AA duracell cell + some coins.

An AA duracell weights exactly 24g

My bad, the seller could not answer in reasonable time because it was holiday in Japan.. Why did I not check this before having a fit...

Oh, well, the issue is to be resolved now and as I wrote on GH, Personal Media are top guys. Couldn't get better service anywhere.

That's good to hear!

That's good . You really don't expect a defect on a board like that.

Great!

Funny, I'm always surprised the countries that celebrate Cinco de Mayo.

Necro-posting cause the keyboard went completely dead today.

I wasn't about to send it back to Japan and deal with all that hassle so I decided to disassemble it and debug it on my own. First I tried to pry it open from beneath the keyboard but realized that the bottom plate is not fixed in place by the upper enclosure. It looks like that would be the case but the "bumps" on the inside of the upper enclosure is only there to restrict how far into the upper enclosure the bottom plate can descend. So there had to be screws hiding under the four semi translucent feet. Sure enough there they were, it just took quite some effort to peel them off, they were really stuck. Using a sharp screwdriver they came off though, with no damage, and there the screws were.

After removing the four screws the bottom plates were no longer hold onto the upper enclosure and the keyboard(s) was open. I didn't expect it, but a beetle-bug trapped inside, escaped as soon one part opened. After hunting down the escaping beetle, which seemed to be berzerking on my desk, I smashed it with a DVD, then I proceeded to connect the keyboard and sure as hell it worked again.

Pretty odd, I guess, then I figure it could have been avoided if the entrances for the lines connecting each half of the keyboard would have had a tighter fit, because they're pretty large and open for bugs now. Anyway, this was just something random. Fact is, as soon as the uTron broke, I ran away and bought a couple of keyboards with red cherries, but since the uTron got to work again, later on, I didn't need them and I was about to post a give away here, alas, this site was blocked from within china (still is sometimes) and I couldn't post it, so some friends picked them up instead.

Why would you kill a beetle, it did nothing wrong.

Cause it was disgusting and I just reacted, it was a moment of sheer and troublesome emotions. I didn't know what to do.

Moreover it just stay Ringo and Mc Cartney…

The uTron sounds like a strange beast.

Jim66 wrote:The uTron sounds like a strange beast.

Hi jim, I think you should get a uTron

On another note, I got a keyboard returned from an uncle who didn't need it, it's a g80-3000 with red-switches. It's in china though, so if someone wants it there's the cost of posting it to deal with.