My first keyboard: Ducky, WASD, etc....?

[Bigben]

Hi everyone! I'm searching for a tenkeyless azerty keyboard ( I'm french). It would be my first mechanical keyboard. As I will mainly use it for typing and RTS games, I was leaning towards mx Brown switches (tactile, a little bit less noisy than blues and they seem to be a good compromise for a first mechanical keyboard).. I'd like to have a removable USB cable, so this is the main reason why I'm ont considering Filcos( maybe it is a mistake). Actually I am hesitating between two keyboards: the ducky shine 3 tenkeyless (normal version or the yellow edition I find quite Nice even if it is really yellow ^^)and a WASD v2 keyboard. Living in France, the WASD might in fact cost a lot considering shipping, taxes etc.... My budget is around 150euros. What would you admise me to buy?
Thanks a lot guys !
(By the way perhaps you have other ideas..... But it´s pretty hard to find a azerty tenkeyless today.....)

[Loafers]

http://pckeyboard.com/page/UKBD/UNI0P4A

[matt3o]

between your selection, my personal preference is:

1) Filco
2) Ducky
3) WASD
4) CM Quickfire

If you really need detachable cable you can have Paranoid build one for you http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... t4657.html



but of course it involves opening the case (and voiding the warranty).

With removable cable I believe there's the Keycool 87 (which is considered "okay" quality) and the Leopold FC200RT (which has weird spacebar stems position if I recall correctly).

[Muirium]

First of all, I suggest you try some switches. CM has a nice little tester with the main 4 colours (plus clears and greens) which you can get discounted off the price of one of their keyboards. Sneaky!

Browns are my least favourite MX switch. They're not really in the middle, as they should be. They're super light (like reds) with hardly any tactile bump at all (unlike clears). Some people do just love them, though, so it's something you have to try for yourself.

As for a keyboard, I advise either a CM Quickfire Rapid or a Ducky. In fact, as you mention the yellow Shine 3 TKL, I wrote a long review of it here. It's just as yellow as you think!



Detachable cable: check. But the channels are a bit tight to use a nice fancy cable like the red, white and blue braided one in that picture (also made by Paranoid). Works fine with the Ducky cable in the box, though.

AZERTY isn't nearly as much of a problem as you think. All ISO keyboards (tall RETURN key over two rows, unlike the American ANSI style) are interchangeable. What makes each language layout different is simply down to what key caps you put on it and then what language you select on your computer. Any ISO keyboard will do. Especially if you want to put a better set of caps on it, like these:



Those are Round 4 caps. Round 5 is finishing soon, and has a kit you might be interested in:



Ducky's keyboards are built like a tank these days. (This is a good thing.) I'm thoroughly pleased with mine. But the caps you'll get on any entry level or midrange keyboard are never great. Fortunately, group buys are a fine way around that problem. And you get so… many… options…

Before you go diving off the deep end into caps (or wisely run away screaming) try some switches. You definitely want to get those right. Caps come off nice and easily. Switches are a real bother to change.

[matt3o]

be careful with CM Quickfire, it had some production/QC issues. They say it is okay now, but you never know which batch you are going to buy.

[ilezia]

I'd just like to chime in to Muirium's comments about testing different keycaps before you buy, unless of course you've already done this and then decided on the browns.

Before buying my first mechanical keyboard I too was set on browns as they sounded like a "good compromise" - but that's exactly what they turned out to be when I tried one - a compromise. Didn't have the nice feedback of blues and weren't smooth like reds, instead they just felt scratchy to me. Ended up buying a Filco TKL with reds and I've been very happy with it.

Naturally as said before by Muirium it comes down to personal preference but I suggest you try before you buy.

[Muirium]

Unfortunately, CM's tester is sold out. It launched quite recently, hopefully they will have more soon.

To me, MX brown feels like MX red with some dirt in it. MX clear has got a lot better bump. But clear is harder to get hold of and is quite a bit heavier. (I like heavy switches. I often type on IBM and MX greens!)

Here's a Ducky TKL with an MX clear option (among others) for 99 EUR plus shipping from Finland (which can be over 20, actually). The "Black Mamba" is well built and quite elegant. So long as you can live without backlights. (I wrote about the caps vs. lighting tradeoff in my review.)



The stock caps are better than most, but they're German. Don't let that put you off: ISO is ISO, and all it takes to make it French is the right new set of caps.



Speaking of which: here are some nice thick PBT dyesubs that Ducky is shipping soon:



Getting them in French might be the interesting part! There's a blue and grey colour scheme too. Or, imagine this without the yellow and you're looking at the shape of Round 5…

[Vierax]

What is your main purpose for this kb ? Gaming I suppose.
If you're a touch typist you don't need azerty keycaps, qwerty (US UK or Intl) is enough. If you mainly uses French and want to learn touch typing then you should try bépo (if you don't already know this layout)
qwerty is bad and colemak or dvorak are way better but it's the legacy layout. azerty is worse since it's derivated from qwerty and causes some key issues in US-centered apps/games because there are too much changes with this legacy layout so it's absolutely not interesting. Québec's people and other French spoken Canadian folks uses a qwerty layout, not azerty. Azerty is only used in France and Wallonie (with another different layout the BE-azerty) even French spoken Swiss uses qwertz instead !
To sum it up, if you want the whole choice and saving money in the same time, go for qwerty (UK if you prefer ANSI layout)


(For Muirium : the μ key in azerty is useless since it's not even a dead letter for Greek symbols as bépo does )

[Muirium]

The µ key's mere existence warms my heart.

[Vierax]

Did you know that this μ key is the caprice of one member of the validating crew for the French azerty ?

[matt3o]

Italian layout is also filled with useless characters nobody uses. luckly I turned to ANSI long ago... I just miss the big ass enter.

(specifically: ç and § but I may also argue about £)

[Muirium]

Yes, I've long wondered why so many of Europe's layouts seem to like £ as much. Surely it should have turned straight into €!

All these symbols are still there on ANSI, too, so long as you know where to look. (Hint: not at the keyboard in that case!) Option + M is my µ. But I like the cut of this capricious Azertian's jib!

[matt3o]

â ŭ ṁ ß ū … ȯ ə » ¥ ×

a lot of fun you can have with a compose key on linux too

[Icarium]

It takes only one key to make a new layer. :p

[Muirium]

Oh, by the way, welcome to Deskthority. Where every thread can wind up being about anything. Like old geezers chatting at the pub!

[matt3o]

what are you talking about? we are perfectly on topic. now! where's my beer!?

[Bigben]

After thinking about it... I've in fact changed a little bit my mind.... Ithink my best pick would in fact be a 60% keybord.
As a matter of fact, I do not use F1-F12 keys ...and I was leaning towards a KBT pure in ANSI US International Layout (It may seem strange but even while writing in french, I find this layout more comfortable than the ISO french layout) ..I was a bit scared concerning all the accents and everything but I think I can deal with it...
So Basically, I have two questions concerning this keyboard...
1. I wanted to take it with brown switches,.... but I have the opportunity to have it with White "Milky" switches. Unfortunately, I do not have the possibility to test white switches... your points of view concerning these switches?
2. I also have the possibility of buying it with brown switches, with an aluminium case (for about 20 euros more)... what does it change?Improve?
Thanks a lot guys

[adhoc]

20€ more probably means it's aluminium colour, not actual material. Try some switches prior to buying a keyboard, seriously, nobody can tell you which switch is the best because it comes down to personal preference.

[Bigben]

And what does the aluminium case improve? is it really a plus? because in this case, it seems it's a real case not just a fake

http://www.amazon.de/KBTalking-KBT-Pure ... ernational

The downside could be the green backlight......

[matt3o]

mostly aesthetics but it also adds weight to the keyboard, which is nice.

[Vierax]

aluminium is more durable than plastic and louder (add weight as Matteo said and can reduce the noise of the typing)

For US intl, you may have difficulties to have the proper legends (I mean the full AltGr legends) but the problem is less important than using a UK layout. If you want something more ergonomic, Colemak is a good option but you need to have the same profile on the three alphabetic row to switch legended caps.

To test switches, you should order a sample from 7bit, or participate to a Mr Interface World tour (the MX numpad one should be the most useful to you since you have no board or keycaps).

If you don't want to change your keycaps, you have still the option to go with an ALPS keyboard (Matias Tactile switches)

[Muirium]

60s are great. So too is aluminium. The case contributes to a keyboard's feel much as the caps and switches do. I like good solid metal for giving a board a "tight" feel. Less sense of wobble and flexibility, and more of a solid slab! Metal is also typically louder, which I like.

MX white is clicky, like MX blue, but lubed so it's a lot quieter. I quite like the single one of them that I've played with. It's a blue with good manners!

Anyway, go grab a tester:

http://www.cmstore.eu/cm-storm/keyboard ... ch-tester/

[guillaume kuster]

and I was leaning towards a KBT pure in ANSI US International Layout

There's also the KBT Pure Pro that has the nice advantage of keeping arrow keys even though it's a 60% board.