deskthority

Hi all. After discussions with Matt3o and jdeblese, it was decided that it would benefit group buy organisers if we could compile a giant list of Ergodox layouts.

This list can then be plotted to generate the most common keycap configurations.

So for the benefit of better quality labelled modifiers, please post your Massdrop configurator layout URLs here!

Heres my work in progress.

This is my current layout, also still being tweaked.

My current layout.

It's primarily a Dvorak-based layout. The qwerty layer is for when I connect the ErgoDox to my work desktop, where I also have a regular staggered keyboard connected, so I have Dvorak layout from the OS.

I originally had the shift keys in the thumb cluster, but after using that layout for over a month, I still couldn't get used to it, and would regularly hit the space|backspace keys when I actually wanted the shift keys, or the other way around.

Edit: Updated my layout. Made a few minor tweaks to layers 2 and 3. I think I may need to adjust the keys on the inside columns. I find that once I put the layer 2/3 toggles on the thumb clusters, I use layer 2/3 significantly more. Also, I may get rid of the arrow keys from layer 2/3, since the vi-style arrow keys on the bottom row of layer 0 is working out well for me.

Thats a very interesting layout. I think I had already scraped an older version of a layout from you, so I'll look at adding an update method!

In case anyone is interested, I'll post a link to the results in a week or so once I've had chance to iron out some bugs!

mine

the Layer1 keys are shifted (so are the number row "middle" keys - 9 and 0 for parentheses )

still have to tweak it a bit

edit: updated the link. was pointing to other layout

Looks good. How long did it take you to get used to right gui and space in those positions?

Hey, Ergodoxers out there! Please contribute your layouts!

I'm working on a script to take Squarefrog's statistics and apply a genetic algorithm to find the best layout. The more layouts we have to start from, the better.

Best layout for group buy sets..

Not best layout combining parts of qwerty, dvorak, colemak, workman

Although I like the sound of qvoleman layout.....

Right, my bad: I meant the best group buy set that would cover the largest percentage of layouts, and with a minimum of extra keys

squarefrog wrote:Looks good. How long did it take you to get used to right gui and space in those positions?

Who are you asking about this?

Here is my layout that I plan on using when I get an ErgoDox.
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?r ... f6a33cc529

nomaded wrote: Who are you asking about this?

Sorry - I was asking alinh.

planet36 wrote:Here is my layout that I plan on using when I get an ErgoDox.
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?r ... f6a33cc529

Thanks for including your layout planet36!

This is mine for the time being, very much a WIP at this point though. Other than the double length thumb keys I find I'm not making the most of the thumb clusters so I think they could do with a re-jigging.

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?r ... 71240bd651

Sweet - thanks HzFaq.

You can have a look at the stats here:
http://dox.codeslingers.co.uk/

I think I'll work on an importer for TMK layout files. But for that I could do with a couple for reference. Does anyone have a keymap.c file I can look at?

Your question was for me, but I messed up the layout when posting, so in fact it wasn'd my layout. I think it was nomaded's ...

Also can you update your stats with the correct layout?

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?r ... 15b2a74892

squarefrog wrote:

nomaded wrote: Who are you asking about this?

Sorry - I was asking alinh.

No problem! Done.

squarefrog wrote:No problem! Done.

Thanks, though not sure it works.

I'm listes twice in the layout list (the 1st apperance is with the wrong layout).

I have "Escape" as a 2x key, but it doesn't appear in the "Double Modifiers (2x)" list (too low count?)

also "Spacebar 45 110%"

alinh wrote: Thanks, though not sure it works.

I'm listes twice in the layout list (the 1st apperance is with the wrong layout).

I have "Escape" as a 2x key, but it doesn't appear in the "Double Modifiers (2x)" list (too low count?)

also "Spacebar 45 110%"

It lists you twice as I'm not near a computer right now so can't boot up the console and change the name on the first one.

Yeah right now it hides keys with a count of <5. I'll add an option to show all results maybe next weekend.

110% is because some people have two spaces.

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?r ... 41daaa227c

To use with BÉPO layout (french and international).
http://bepo.fr/wiki/Fichier:Carte-bepo-complete.png
I will change the layout with configuration on the computer.
I didn't try it. I hope I forget nothing...

The important point is the 2 symetric keys [Alt Gr] (also called RAlt, Right Alt).

Also with bépo layout.
Colors are for fun, inspired by Archlinux. I don't have the keycaps to match that
vd1 stands for "virtual desktop 1", keycode is mapped to an openbox shortcuts that do the trick
Archlinux keycap is Esc.
It is still work in progress...
Bépo layout raises a few problem with ergordox since it is too short on the right : we can't fit the W and the Shift in their usual places. Also I got used to Shift on the home row by my older keyboard (typematrix) and I won't go back. Shift usual placement is madness, especially because it is always used in combo with an other key. So I decided to move it to the middle finger. "W" key got moved to the left, in symmetry to its usual placement, moving Tab to home row.
The second layer is navigation and functions. vi-style on the right, esdf cluster on the left.
Massdrop layout configurator : https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?r ... 0dcaa9f46b

How do you get the picture ?

I try this one, now :
http://linuxfr.org/nodes/99264/comments/1474904
https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?r ... a10cc29a0e

But my fingers seem too short...

dormomuso wrote:How do you get the picture ?

I used http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/

My layout is based on the german Dvorak layout, type 2 according to german wikipedia. Note that some keys are "representational" only. For example the parenthesis on the L1 home row are actually the "Extended Number Pad 1" parenthesis and aren't recognized on OSX at least - I've programmed my Ergodox to generate SHIFT+9 and SHIFT+0. Also [Copy], [Cut], [Paste] don't work (on OSX), I've programmed my Ergodox to generate LGUI+C, LGUI+X, LGUI+V instead.

You might notice the umlauts usually found on german keyboards are missing. Before the Ergodox I used to create my own software layout for OSX, Windows and Linux. I found that for writing code, it was a huge improvement. However quite a few applications didn't respect that custom layout when it came to shortcuts - apparently they read the keyboard scancodes and not the generated symbol. Games were another matter entirely, some games registered key presses as if I'm using QWERTY, some as if I'm using QWERTZ, and some games were even more confused entirely and it was a mix of QWERTZ and my custom layout.

Then when my Ergodox arrived and it came to programming it, I realized I could not replicate my software layout in firmware. There I had to work with what the USB HID standard deemed reasonable and sufficient and was stuck with just scan codes. I then programmed the Ergodox to QWERTY and used it along with my software layout for a while. But as I kept running into the old problems. Plus I got tired of managing installation and updates of my software layout on the computers I regularly use. One of my big hopes for the Ergodox was just being able to plug it in anywhere and have my layout present.

This meant for me I had to base my firmware layout on a software layout that would be available by default on all OS that I use. I gave up on the german default layout right away, since it's a horrible layout when it comes to writing code - most symbols used frequently when writing code are all over the place and some are on the ALT layer. Which happens to differ between OSX and Windows/Linux.

I remembered quite a few fellow german software developers use the standard US Layout, where most symbols used in code are more accessible. As for the umlauts, they would always write them in the alternative spelling: "ae" for "ä", "ue" for "ü", "ss" for "ß", etc. (I used to condescendingly smile on that whenever I had a written chat with one of these colleagues.) Since the US layout is by default included in all OS, I started rewriting my firmware layout with the US layout in mind. It helped that the Massdrop configurator actually works that way. I switched to the official firmware source and compiling it myself after the first few layouts generated with the Massdrop configurator since some keys just did not work (COPY, PASTE, CUT) or others were missing such as shifted 9 and 0 for their parenthesis.

For a few weeks I spent some time each day on http://typing.io/ testing the feel of the placement of the symbols on the left half of L1. I've placed them first by a key/fingers ergonomic value and frequency of use. After that I moved some closer together or placed them on adjancent fingers if they frequently occur in sequence.

Finally I've moved all the modifiers to the thumb area or center keys to minimize pinky strain. I've added dedicated Copy, Cut and Paste keys since these combinations are either uncomfortable one-handed or uncomfortable two-handed when using a pointing device to mark text and copy/paste objects around.

All in all I'm currently satisfied with my layout and feel comfortable enough to share it. There are still some modifier combinations that are a bit uncomfortable, but that's only because some OS and applications are a bit unreasonable.

Nice Dvorak layout! Also, I like your conspicuous aversion to overusing the pinkies. Home row numbers is a new one to me, but I can see it being useful - I have an embedded number pad in mine, since I am more well-versed in ten-key.

Thanks for the detailed description of your thought process, too. Cool layout.

freschu wrote: All in all I'm currently satisfied with my layout and feel comfortable enough to share it. There are still some modifier combinations that are a bit uncomfortable, but that's only because some OS and applications are a bit unreasonable.

Super interesting read, thanks! This last point is very true for me. One of the hardest things for me using my dox is relearning some of the more complex shortcuts. I've been using photoshop for about 14 years now, so just about everything I want to do is committed to muscle memory. I've noticed my productivity has taken a big hit. Thankfully though, my time spent in Photoshop is limited these days so it's not all bad!

I'm no quicker with the dox, probably 10-20wpm slower than I was previously, but I really don't care as it is so much more comfortable. I am thankful that I have a good job in programming where I have to think more than type.

First time poster, but here is my current layout:

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?r ... 786c0af7ee

Basically I hated having the ctrl and alt keys where they were, as I felt it awkward to shift my left-hand up to use them. I'm left-hand dominant when I type with the modifier keys (not ergonomic, I know) and I found it annoying having to slightly rotate my left over all the time when using windows shortcuts. The tilde and backslash keys got a place on the right-hand side for the same reason.

Having blank DSA keys led me to move the arrow keys where they were as I was having a hard time adjusting to their location all in a row.

Interesting layout! Yeah that's one of the big advantages to a blank keycap set. You can just position your keys wherever you'd like!

https://www.massdrop.com/ext/ergodox/?r ... e4d1426ef5


I've been using this layout since 2/13/14.

The Layer shift buttons are used to either access Function keys F1-F12 plus arrows at esdf or ijkl using the ~L1 toggles, or to access a 10key pad plus flip the thumb key clusters to the opposite hand. This way I can mouse with my right hand and access the right-half of the thumb cluster with the left hand. This allows for single-handed tasking while drinking coffee, scrolling through a big doc, etc. The main reason for the ~L2 keys is to allow for space, enter, escape, backspace, and del on both hands.

Since all Layer shifts are momentary toggles, the keyboard is always on the qwerty layout if no Layer keys are pressed.

Also the duplicate up-down arrows on both hands are to allow for easy page viewing/file scrolling with either hand.

The worst part of this keyboard is it needs one more row on the right-hand side for programmers to not have to shift the bracket keys off of their typical row. This is my only pet-peeve with this keyboard.

Also, the 6/7 number row split is something I carried over in my design from using a Microsoft Natural Elite keyboard for years with 6 on the left-hand side of the split.

the L0 key is a bit redundant now that I have all of the toggles set. I'd just left it as a dead key as I was smashing the center keys with too-long reaches as I got accustomed to the straight-rows ergonomics.

Another design decision was to do away with CAPS LOCK because that key is infuriating. It's replaced by the windows key.

The control on the thumb cluster is intentional as I'm a UNIX engineer/developer, and that's my fourth most-used modifier key aside from space, enter, and backspace.

Certainly an interesting take on a programmer layout. I guess everyones layout depends on the specific languages they use. For instance I mostly write objective-c (for now) so having the square brackets in the middle 1.5U spots is ideal for me.

I'm quite surprised how little time it took to get used to a custom layout though!