deskthority

I really like this 87-key V2 WASD keyboard:
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/ ... ad-image-0

However it is a tad expensive... is there something for half the price (I want two of them - one for work, one for home).

Looking for it to have the same features at least as WASD:

• 87 keys (without the numpad on the right)
• Left Win-Key
• Small Enter key
• Ability to turn caps-lock into Ctrl (into Shift would be great too)
• Brown Switches (or Clear)
• Media keys with Fn modifier key (useful for changing the volume)
• No LEDs (or ability to turn them off)
• Don't care for other frills.

I would appreciate any tips. I am not really familiar with anything outside Das/CM/TrulyErgonomic --- so go easy on abbreviations please :9

P.S.: I would be intersted in various group buys or purchasing a keyboard by parts, but I am not sure if that's going to come out any cheaper... seems like the shipping will do me in

Not a recommendation, but an option:

http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/ ... t7182.html

The trouble with cheap keyboards is you get what you pay for.

You can get a Cooler Master Storm Quick Fire Rapid (or CM QFR or just QFR) which is a tenkeyless and a fair bit cheaper. They have rather ugly caps, though.

About your list of demands:
- 87 keys (without the numpad on the right)
Yep! Those are called Tenkeyless, or TKL. The QFR has that.
- Left Win-Key
Yep! I think you'd be hard pressed to find one without.
- Small Enter key
I assume you mean US layout -- ANSI -- and not something strange. Look up ANSI vs. ISO in the wiki.
- Ability to turn caps-lock into Ctrl (into Shift would be great too)
If you're willing to compromise, you can do this in software. Windows has SharpKeys, Mac OSX has KeyRemap4Macbook, and Linux has xmodmap.
- Brown Switches (or Clear)
Should be possible.
- Media keys with Fn modifier key (useful for changing the volume)
I believe so!
- No LEDs (or ability to turn them off)
Yep!
- Don't care for other frills.
Nor do I.

So maybe a QFR would suit your needs?

I agree with Mu's sentiment re: keycool - the quality is going to be pretty poor in comparison. They're not a _huge_ amount cheaper than the QFR, either. Up to you, really!

I am a little skeptical about this "quality" argument I've been seeing everywhere... is there any evidence that there is a difference between "cheap" plastic and "expensive" plastic?
I don't mean to be rude, but this reminds me of the argument people use when buying a car --- i mean underneath they are all the same. (Similar with gaming mice -- the community is beserk to be paying $100 for a tiny pcb with 2 wires attached -- I took one apart the other day and was shocked by shoddy craftsmanship. FYI it was g9x logitech).

I mean objectively speaking... is there a difference? Could you tell if you were blindfolded? Again, don't mean to be rude, just curious (since I could spend $ for better quality if it's really there)

P.S.: This forum keeps deleting my messages... is it just me?

Thank you for describing the terminology! Very helpful.

Thanks for the Keycool recommendation --- but the font is soo ugly

FWIW, you can buy replacement caps (and most people on here do!) - sets range from about 20 euro to... more than I can justify spending.

drozzy wrote:I am a little skeptical about this "quality" argument I've been seeing everywhere... is there any evidence that there is a difference between "cheap" plastic and "expensive" plastic?

Plastic is just a general term, not an exact substance. Plastics vary wildly, much as metals do in their properties. PBT is a different material to ABS. Lasered legends are fundamentally distinct from doubleshot or dyesub. Sure, we argue a lot about what any particular keyboard is worth. But it's not black magic. The things we debate are physical, and easily identified. And they do matter if you want to use a board any longer than a year or two.

If you don't, then shop by price tag, it's all you want. Everyone has their own priorities.

P.S.: This forum keeps deleting my messages... is it just me?

Apparently!

But.... I've yet had a rubber keyboard fail on me... and I used it for more than 5 years.
If some of these keyboards (i.e. keycool) can't even last longer than 2 -- then nobody should ever buy them!!!

Thanks - Cooler Master Storm Quick Fire Rapid looks good.
Can I replace these keycaps too? Is there some way of finding out compatibility? Say, can I put these on:
http://www.keypop.net/product/black-dou ... 11-keycaps

drozzy wrote:But.... I've yet had a rubber keyboard fail on me... and I used it for more than 5 years.
If some of these keyboards (i.e. keycool) can't even last longer than 2 -- then nobody should ever buy them!!!

I wear through low end stuff pretty hard. The legends come right off, then the A key strts to fil nd I get ngry, then I bet it senseless…

All Cherry MX switches have compatible caps. And yes, you can - those will be just fine.

They are made of ABS (instead of PBT), which means that they will go shiny quicker. This is, however, probably just personal preference. Plus, at $24 who cares...

The good news: the caps are doubleshot so the legends won't wear away.
The bad news: they're not very interesting!

So no DIP-switch enabled ones?

I don't know of any off-hand apart from the WASD.

You could replace the QFR controller w/ a Frosty Flake -- no need for dip-switches, just change the firmware ! (available here)

Quality is not defined only by longevity, but by the entire typing experience: the feel, sound, and appearance of the keyboard. Embodied within the feel is the sense of precision one gets while typing.

In my own experience, I have tried about a dozen Cherry-switch keyboards, including those by Tex, Keycool, CM, and Filco. Among Cherry switch types, I have tried blue, brown, black, red, white, and green. I didn't really like any of them that much, but if I had to choose one from this group that most closely matches your criteria, it would be the CM QFR with blue or green Cherry mx switches.

Considering all the keyboards and switch types, my all-time favorites are the Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 (with 45g Topre switches), IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (IBM SSK, with membrane buckling spring switches), IBM XT keyboard (with capacitive buckling spring switches), and the Matias Mini Tactile Pro (with Alps-inspired Matias tactile switches). However, these do not match your criteria.

Good luck!

@rjrich thanks. I am not a fan of blues... they feel too much like linear switches to me. Also I find the click they make (on my TE) to be really ..irritating (it's like it's too harsh or too high pitched). Does anyone else have similar experience I wonder? I like the buttery smoothness of browns. I have not tried clears.

@Grendel haha, that is way too much trouble for me!

Clears are much bumpier than browns. If you hadn't mentioned that you like browns, I would be suggesting Matias clicky switches right now, which click with a lower pitch than blues and have better tactility for my taste. They could be worth a try anyway.

drozzy wrote:@rjrich thanks. I am not a fan of blues... they feel too much like linear switches to me. Also I find the click they make (on my TE) to be really ..irritating (it's like it's too harsh or too high pitched). Does anyone else have similar experience I wonder? I like the buttery smoothness of browns. I have not tried clears.

I am also not a fan of blues. Without knowing your preferences among Cherry mx switches, but based on the other criteria you mentioned, I recommended the CM QFR. I said blues because of their popularity as an all-around switch. My CM QFR has greens, which seem to give the board more gravitas, but I suppose greens might be regarded as much heavier blues. I am actually not a fan of any Cherry mx switch, but if you like browns, you might consider the CM QFR with browns.

If you like buttery smooth, you might consider a board with Topre switches, but be prepared for a price escalation. I have tried two Topre-switch boards: the Leopold FC660C and the HHKB Pro 2. Both boards have 45g Topres, but the boards sound and feel different. I somewhat prefer the sound and feel of the Leopold, but the HHKB wins for me overall because of its 60% form factor, symmetry, layout, and dye-sub PBT keycaps.

You really just have to try out a given board with a particular switch to see if you like the combination.

I'm trying to figure out the mentality behind wanting browns, yet thinking blues are too linear.

Remapping Ctrl and Caps Lock can often be done in software, too.

Might be worth looking at this, although the layout is a bit different: http://matias.ca/miniquietpro/pc/

Or if you want more noise, the Mini Tactile Pro, although as it's an Apple layout, more tweaking is required to make it work nicely with a PC. (Really, they need to sell the PC versions with the Click switches...)

81 keys, although the few you lose from a standard 87-key (PrtSc, ScrLk, Pause, Ins, Home, and End) are all in the Fn layer.
Left Windows key
ANSI horizontal enter key (same as the WASD you're looking at), not a big-ass PC AT-style (often referred to as L-shaped, although it's actually J-shaped) or an ISO/JIS (vertical) enter
No ability to swap Caps Lock and Ctrl in hardware, but like I said, you can do that in software, too
Quiet tactile switches, so certainly in the same realm as browns or clears, but with more tactility (although I haven't personally used the quiet switches)
Media keys with Fn modifier (for pause/play, previous and next track, volume up, down, and mute)
The only LED is Caps Lock
No other frills other than a USB 2.0 hub

It's not half the price, though. Be careful shopping in the sub-$100 price range, for what it's worth, because many keyboard manufacturers in this price range (and sometimes higher!) are switching to Kailh knockoffs of Cherry switches.

bhtooefr wrote:I'm trying to figure out the mentality behind wanting browns, yet thinking blues are too linear.

Preferences can be a multidimensional surface with many local maximums. Or, to stop pretending I'm a mathematician, folk can like the colours white and black better than grey, despite grey being in between.

In my case, I like a good sharp clicky switch like buckling spring. And yet I also like smooth linears. Huh? Then I also like tactility done the Topre way, instead of Cherry's bump, and I lately discovered I like damped tactile Alps, too. There's plenty of switches between all those I don't enjoy at all. So it winds up that I need more than one keyboard to feel them all. Not a problem!

I started out thinking there would be one ideal. I thought it would be clicky, likely MX blue. But you learn more as you try.

I'm not a fan of linears, but honestly I have trouble telling the difference between browns and reds.

(Then again, I like lots of tactility. I like it in different forms, but however it comes, I want lots of it.)

bhtooefr wrote:(Then again, I like lots of tactility. I like it in different forms, but however it comes, I want lots of it.)

Have you considered replacing a Kinesis buzzer with an electrode? Hooked up to this, of course:



It's the one from the Milgram experiment!

Quiet down, through there! This is science!

bhtooefr wrote:I'm not a fan of linears, but honestly I have trouble telling the difference between browns and reds.

(Then again, I like lots of tactility. I like it in different forms, but however it comes, I want lots of it.)

I have a QFR with browns, and a Corsair K65 with reds. I can definitely tell a difference, and prefer the browns. My understanding is they share the same spring, but the reds feel heavier to me by a slight margin.

I'd vote QFR as well, but be aware the caps will go shiny quick. The gray finish on my unbranded QFR also wore away quite quickly below the space bar. I plan to do PBT caps in the near future.