deskthority

Good morning DT community,

Time for an other question... We recently launched in the US with the Rapid i and we will follow shortly with this in EU too but I was wondering, would you miss a added macro layer on a TKL keyboard like the Rapid or the Rapid i? Or would this loose the purpose of a TKL (small formfactor keyboard)?

Something like this:


Thanks again for the input and feedback !

Imo modern keyboards should be full programmable. If so, I not need any extra macro keys.
But if you want extra keys nevertheless, add it not to the side.

Left side function keys aren't a bad idea. IBM used to put all the function keys there for a shorter layout, and it worked quite well.

I do agree with CeeSA that programmability really means *all the keys* not just a specific group. But this could be an easier to understand introduction to it for normal people who're not us!

Having had a Dell membrane at work (which I killed, S key died) with dedicated calc and other keys I have to say I found it quite useful for certain tasks (for which there was no immediately obvious hotkey solution) to have the dedicated keys.

Have my switch tester voucher on standby for rapid-i

On the left hand side macros won't get into the way and can be quite useful, except when you are a left handed mouse user...

As I see it, macrokeys is primarily for gamers, and there may be a market for the smaller size of a TKL with the addition of dedicated macrokeys, but for my part, macrokeys on a TKL adds unneccesarily to the size and/or the complexity, which I think ruins the purpose of a TKL.

I think the main benefit of a TKL design is the possibility to have the mouse closer to the keyboard by sacrificing the numpad, and the larger a TKL gets the more the main benifit diminish.

I love the idea of macro keys on the left side as long as there is a space separating them like in the Monoprice one you are showing. I like to be able to feel where my hand is without looking down, so the spacing is nice. I use macros for non-gaming.

In my opinion, I like TKL, not for portability, but for ergonomics of bringing the mouse in closer. I spend 8+ hours on a computer per day, so TKL helps my right shoulder.

I too, feel that modern keyboards should be fully programmable. For example, I want Fn + Q to register as a unique keystroke so I can use AutoHotKey to assign it to something. Right now, Fn + letters do nothing on CM keyboards.

As for the mechanical volume knob?? Brilliant. More keyboards need it. They offer the ability to quickly change the volume to the exact level. If I'm watching a movie and a loud part comes and my child is sleeping in the next room over, I can quickly get the volume where I want, and I don't have to wait for click click click click to get it down. Same thing goes true in the car audio industry. Most die hard audio guys prefer a knob over buttons for volume.

I think it would be more interesting to ditch the top row function keys and use the keys on the left for this. Kind of like a modern F AT layout. That I would buy.

FunctionKeyLess…


http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/top ... ml#p158348

+ left column.

Imo modern keyboards should be full programmable. If so, I not need any extra macro keys.
But if you want extra keys nevertheless, add it not to the side.

I agree to this. And, even if you need space for some extra keys, why leave those gaps I’ve marked pink? There is plenty of space to fill. Overall, there is the impression you are chewing the cud with adding some extra keys. That’s not innovation, but pseudo-innovation!

Eszett wrote:.....why leave those gaps I’ve marked pink? There is plenty of space to fill.

So you can reach down and know where your keys are without looking down. Imagine a giant grid of keys all placed next to each other with no spacing. You'll have a hard time finding them without looking.

As Mu pointed out, IBM had F-keys on the left side in the XT and AT keyboards, and in the giant 122-key, there were F-keys both on the left and on top.

DSI currently has a modular keyboard for the Mac with F/macro keys on the left.

However, there is a lot to be said for the standard TKL layout, and I agree with others that it would be good to have a completely programmable board rather than trying to second-guess what people might want with specialized keys.

I for one really like the addition of a volume wheel, though I would have preferred it to be a knob to turn.

I don't like function/macro keys on the left side as I use the left edge of the keyboard for orientation while I'm gaming.
Having some additional keys there throws me off regularly and then I hit the wrong buttons...

What does the macro own?

You might as well provide a numpad on the left side and make it programmable. It would be more 'standard' in a way and would appeal to those who chose a TKL because of the added space for the mouse.

rindorbrot wrote:I don't like function/macro keys on the left side as I use the left edge of the keyboard for orientation while I'm gaming.
Having some additional keys there throws me off regularly and then I hit the wrong buttons...

Even when there's a small (think 0.25u) space between the alpha block and those function keys?

Ascaii wrote:I for one really like the addition of a volume wheel, though I would have preferred it to be a knob to turn.

So you want a DAS keyboard then....

I personaly can't stand macro keys for several reasons:
1. They are ugly
2. They consume space
3. It is pointless to develope a macro layer and not make the whole keyboard programmable
4. I barely see people using them
5. They are actually very very ugly and it goes in the wrong direction for a compact layout.

I used to like media controls a lot, but my taste changed over the years and since I discovered Volumouse for windows I barely use them anymore. I'd never sacrifice the simple look of the keyboard for media keys anymore.
Accessible media buttons via funktion layer is okay, dedicated keys is a NONO for me.

While we are talking about compact keyboard, any plans for CM to releaser a 60%?

I'd like to see a CM 60%, too! I even made a fanfic… But this layout, please!

cookie wrote: 3. It is pointless to develope a macro layer and not make the whole keyboard programmable
4. I barely see people using them

A paradox! Macro keys are just nerdy and mysterious enough to be little or no use to most people. But they aren't sufficiently powerful for us keyboard aficionados. I favour full programmability instead: with a reset switch for anyone who gets confused.

Eszett wrote:

Imo modern keyboards should be full programmable. If so, I not need any extra macro keys.
But if you want extra keys nevertheless, add it not to the side.

I agree to this. And, even if you need space for some extra keys, why leave those gaps I’ve marked pink? There is plenty of space to fill. Overall, there is the impression you are chewing the cud with adding some extra keys. That’s not innovation, but pseudo-innovation!

105792.jpg

If they filled those spaces on the right - it'd just become a QuickFire TK!

I like the idea of having additional keys, although I would only ever use them if they were dedicated media keys. I'd also be more inclined to position them along the top edge - or even the right edge. The left side always throws you off when gaming!

Same here. I never use media keys. If I wanted some kind of keyboard macro, I would prefer to program it myself.

Muirium wrote:I'd like to see a CM 60%, too! I even made a fanfic…

Spoiler:

But this layout, please!

Spoiler:

cookie wrote: 3. It is pointless to develope a macro layer and not make the whole keyboard programmable
4. I barely see people using them

A paradox! Macro keys are just nerdy and mysterious enough to be little or no use to most people. But they aren't sufficiently powerful for us keyboard aficionados. I favour full programmability instead: with a reset switch for anyone who gets confused.

I have corrected the second picture for you

I agree to (the taste of) Cookie and Muirium. I'm afraid we have little to no influence in the product design, and the question "how would you like this ...?" is merely a kind of advertisement. CM Bram please show us that I'm wrong!

Meanwhile, leaning back…

kbdfr wrote:Meanwhile, leaning back…

Spoiler:

meanwhile.jpg

Fully programmable (plus 3 additional layers!),
no loss of space between keys,
additional rows on top allowing mousing on either side

And I thought the KC84 looked like an impenetrable wall of keys. This thing looks like it could sub for "I'm thinking of a brick wall" in the film, "Village of the Damned".

kbdfr wrote:Meanwhile, leaning back…

Spoiler:

meanwhile.jpg

Fully programmable (plus 3 additional layers!),
no loss of space between keys,
additional rows on top allowing mousing on either side

Can you actually mod the bottom row to have more 1.25 mods on the right?

JBert wrote:

kbdfr wrote:Meanwhile, leaning back…

Spoiler:

meanwhile.jpg

Fully programmable (plus 3 additional layers!),
no loss of space between keys,
additional rows on top allowing mousing on either side

Can you actually mod the bottom row to have more 1.25 mods on the right?

Plate-mounted switches, so modding really isn’t simple.
On the other hand, no need to because there is such a wealth of keys you can assign as you like
(e.g. those in the right column).

But I didn’t intend to hijack the thread, just thought I could show what is not only possible, but already reality.

rindorbrot wrote:I don't like function/macro keys on the left side as I use the left edge of the keyboard for orientation while I'm gaming.
Having some additional keys there throws me off regularly and then I hit the wrong buttons...

This.

Macro keys are definitely a deal-breaker for me. They are an eyesore and generally useless. On the other hand, fully programmable (think something like Ducky Mini for example) keyboard in TKL or even full size, with white keycaps as standard would cause me to scream TAKE MY MONEY in an instant.

Eszett wrote:And, even if you need space for some extra keys, why leave those gaps I’ve marked pink? There is plenty of space to fill.

BTW, that is not CM Storm's keyboard, just used for illustration I suppose.

I think the classic layout for the function row would be best for a gaming keyboard. It is mostly when gaming that you reach the function keys by memory and feel. Therefore, having them in familiar places is important for gaming.
The space between the function row and numeric row could be reduced to 1/4 key though.

When I built my Phantom I thought of putting dedicated media keys in-between the cursor and nav key clusters, with small, lower home-made keycaps consisting only of stem. Then that idea reminded me of horrible cheap keyboards with buttons in that location, which made me shudder... I would be reminded of cheap crap whenever I saw the media keys, and I don't want that.

Ascaii wrote:I for one really like the addition of a volume wheel, though I would have preferred it to be a knob to turn.

Yes. It is only that people are more used to knobs being absolute, and (correct me if I'm wrong, but) I think these ones can only be relative, so the user model that people are used to would have to be broken.
BTW. I find Pause or Mute to be more important.

... And while we are giving feedback to CM Storm:
* I am saddened to see that the usual CM Storm QuickFire Rapid is being discontinued. I had been waiting for it to appear with non-linear switches in ISO, but that never happened. Yes, there is a version with MX Brown, but it was available for such a short time over here that it hardly counts. As soon as I saw it at an e-retailer, the stock was already down to 0 and that never changed.

* Do put a proper cable channel on the underside of the keyboard or make the keyboard flatter.
The Rapid I does not have any cable channel, and the cable channels on the other keyboards (Rapid, TK, Pro) were badly designed, obviously by someone who does not understand the purpose of a cable channel.
There is no reason why a cable should go straight out from a keyboard's left or right side.
Instead, there should be outlets out the back of the keyboard near the left and right edges.

* Please do standardize on one set of Fn-key mappings. I don't see why the Rapid-I needs to have different mappings from what the Rapid, TK and Pro have.

* Please do use only 1.25 wide modifiers on the bottom row. It is hard to customize with other keycaps otherwise and the difference in feel is negligible.