deskthority

It seems there are currently no sources for PBT spacebars for Topre keyboards such as Realforce or HHKB Pro 2.

How might interest be generated for this product? Could a company like Signature Plastics or Shapeways be persuaded to produce the product?

Could this be done by suggesting a GB through a company such as Massdrop, or would Massdrop already have to have a producer for the product?

EDIT: Looks like this is going to happen! Please go to the following link, which in turn has a link to the "Purchase Intent" page:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/top ... ml#p198600

Many thanks to matt3o for taking the initiative on this!

Update:

A vendor on GH has started an IC on the topic of Topre PBT spacebars:

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65120.0

I'm into that. Hold tight.

Ugh, GH formatting. I can't even separate the relevant bits on that thread from all the goddamn requotes and sigs! Is this a real thing or just pie in the sky?

Anyway, if you are on it, I suspect the same mysterious supplier is involved as your dyesub SA project. Hush hush, wink wink.

Perhaps we can forgive GH for its formatting and embrace the youthful exuberance.

No doubt if Oscar Wilde were alive today, he would choose DT for its tasteful fonts and layout.

In any event, regarding Topre spacebars in PBT, we have to start somewhere, and at least there appears to be some genuine interest among a few who might be in a position to make a difference.

"Hope springs eternal...."

DT is the younger forum. I'm afraid GH is stuck being that ugly for the long haul.

Muirium wrote: ↑DT is the younger forum. I'm afraid GH is stuck being that ugly for the long haul.

By "younger forum", are you referring to the age of the organization or the median or mean age of the members? I was referring to the age of the members. I have the impression that GH has a younger membership than DT does, but I have no hard facts.

The former. And I see no sign of people's age having anything to do with it. GH's eye-hostile nature is its culture, not a quirk of its users. There's plenty of overlap in membership between both forums, and the same people don't do the same thing over here. One of the many reasons I only sit on this side of the fence.

nothing beats DT off-topic ratio anyway.

No one's perfect!

I rotate between forums, sort of like rotating keyboards, but I often feel more at home over here on DT. It can be fun and informative to get some different perspectives on things between the two forums. Sometimes I even look at reddit, but trying to post there is too much like writing xml code.

In any event, I hope that SP and/or others might have PBT Topre spacebars for us by around June of 2015 or so.

matt3o wrote: ↑nothing beats DT off-topic ratio anyway.

And nothing beats GH for the number of "brown versus blue" threads.

Muirium wrote: ↑The former. And I see no sign of people's age having anything to do with it. GH's eye-hostile nature is its culture, not a quirk of its users. There's plenty of overlap in membership between both forums, and the same people don't do the same thing over here. One of the many reasons I only sit on this side of the fence.

Shhh...people might think we're some sort of stuffy gentleman’s club. Oh wait...

Early DT:



Forums weren't so fun in hardcopy. Sssh! I am composing my reply, sir.

Always wanted to be able to say, "if someone should inquire, I shall be at my club." And then actually to be there, sitting in a leather wingback chair, my man bringing the post along with my glass of port on a silver salver.
"Is there a reply, sir?" says my man. "

"What's that?", I say.

"To the young gentleman who insists that 'reds rule'."

"Ah, yes. Tell him, 'tut, tut.. Topre all the way'."

"Sir, shall I mention that all opinions pertaining to perceived switch superiority are subjective?"

"Ha ha! Silly Edmund...this is why you merely fetch the posts for me."

some older topre KBs have PBT spacebars. I think Hasu said his NEWS KB has one. Now finding one that's the proper length for a modern ANSI topre keyboard might be hard.

Muirium wrote: ↑Ugh, GH formatting. I can't even separate the relevant bits on that thread from all the goddamn requotes and sigs! Is this a real thing or just pie in the sky?

Anyway, if you are on it, I suspect the same mysterious supplier is involved as your dyesub SA project. Hush hush, wink wink.

It doesn't take too long to get used to it, and can be significantly improved with some simple user styles.

No matter how erudite the discussion, I can't stand the blinding white of DT and that is probably the major reason I only come here when I've replied to every interesting topic on GH. That, and the fact that on DT I have to wait 3 seconds after doing anything and it always "helpfully" redirects me places I don't want.

dorkvader wrote: ↑some older topre KBs have PBT spacebars. I think Hasu said his NEWS KB has one.

This is news to me (no pun intended). Did hasu mention this in a thread somewhere or IRC?
As far as I know, the only PBT spacebars on Topre boards are for Japanese layouts.

Is there any particular reason as to why there isn't a place to buy a separate Topre PBT spacebar? Is it just because manufacturers want to avoid warping, or is there a deeper reason to it?

I'd love to have a topre spacebar and a full set for my HHKB!

Bomble wrote: ↑Is there any particular reason as to why there isn't a place to buy a separate Topre PBT spacebar? Is it just because manufacturers want to avoid warping, or is there a deeper reason to it?

because they are niche products (=not enough interest) and warping of course

I think it is out of question that a PBT spacebar should be a standard on premium products like HHKB and Realforce!
And if they have such problems with warping, why don't they split the spacebar where you can programm your own layer of keys? That would be my personal "Holy Grail" of keyboards!

matt3o wrote: ↑ because they are niche products (=not enough interest) and warping of course

Fair enough, it's a shame that they aren't available though. Looking forward to what you have in store!

cookie wrote: ↑I think it is out of question that a PBT spacebar should be a standard on premium products like HHKB and Realforce!

I totally agree, even if they just included it separately with a little warning denoting that it may require adjustment in order to fit properly due to warping. When you're paying that sort of price for a keyboard surely it can't hurt them too much to include a small addition like that. Oh well, I can only dream.

Warping can be a problem with PBT. However, IBM put PBT spacebars on its Model F and Model M keyboards for years with no apparent problems. In addition, for Cherry mx switches, I have several PBT keycap sets including PBT spacebars that are not warped. One of the best of these sets is from Leopold.

I've certainly seen some yellowed Model M space bars in ebay listings. I'm not convinced they are PBT at all. That shiny front side feels very ABS to me.


@Bomble: Forget adjustment, warping likely means it just plain won't fit! That said, some manufacturers were making nice straight PBT space bars decades ago. Here's my NMB:



Yellowed case, pearl white space bar!


@Dorkvader: I have a way to fix that, when I've weary eyes. Often, I run my screen in negative colours mode (I have a toggle right on my keyboards) but that's no good when reading and looking at pictures together. So then there's this. Again on a keyboard shortcut.

Looks like I will need to sacrifice some spacebars for keyboard science to run some objective tests of chemical composition. When I get around to this and have some results, I will post them.

I don't think this is necessary, as far as I know has ripster done some nice work there.

Hopefully it is allowed to refference his work here, after all the conflicts in the past between him and DT/GH?

Anyway, here are the links:
http://imgur.com/a/fAi8I
http://imgur.com/a/4inkA

@cookie: He describes a couple of tests that are relatively non-invasive, but not conclusive in themselves.

@Muirium: I have had many IBM Model M and Model F keyboards, and none of them has had a yellowed spacebar. However, I saw a post on GH indicating that some IBM Model M boards made in Scotland apparently used ABS for the spacebars and that these spacebars reportedly became yellowed. I don't have independent verification for any of this.

Apparently there are some grounded spacebars from Model Ms made in the UK, maybe these are made of ABS.

@Hypersphere fair enough, but can you explain why the spacebar on my pro1 hasn't yellowed at all but the whole case did? I don't think that a spacebar which won't yellow is an definite indicator for PBT ofr POM.