deskthority

Hi there, so I'm interested in getting a 60% board, and I'm pretty interested in the Poker 2, it has great potential for customisation, and has the built in hardware macro-capability. But I'm really really tempted to save a little and just go all in and get the feels on an HHKB.

Should I do it?

what switches do you like? have you already tried a topre keyboard?

matt3o wrote: ↑what switches do you like? have you already tried a topre keyboard?

Nope, unfortunately I haven't tried topre before, but the way it has been described really makes me want it.

I've tried blues, and the click started to irritate me very quickly, so I got a Filco MJ2 with browns. While I do like the browns, I'd say my ideal switch is a bit smoother (the 'sandy' feeling of browns is their biggest drawback IMO), and a larger tactile bump would also be a welcome change.

Would it be worth it to get my hands on a switch tester to see if any other MX switches appeal to me?

You could sort of simulate a 60% layout using your MJ2 - use some software (like XModmap, Karabiner or AutoHotKey, maybe) to set up a 60% with layers in the main block of your keyboard.

from what you are saying... if you can afford it, go for the HHKB. If you don't like it I'm pretty sure you can resell it here without problems.

The description you make of your ideal switch make me think you'd really like topres, but also vintage (or lubed) clears.

scottc wrote: ↑You could sort of simulate a 60% layout using your MJ2 - use some software (like XModmap, Karabiner or AutoHotKey, maybe) to set up a 60% with layers in the main block of your keyboard.

That sounds like a good idea, I'll definitely try that before I buy one, thanks!

matt3o wrote: ↑from what you are saying... if you can afford it, go for the HHKB. If you don't like it I'm pretty sure you can resell it here without problems.

Awesome, time to start saving..
Just out of curiosity, where would be the best place to buy one? Keeping in mind that I live in Australia. The shipping cost from EK pushes the total slightly over $300. Is there a cheaper way or should I buy second hand?

ramnes wrote: ↑The description you make of your ideal switch make me think you'd really like topres, but also vintage (or lubed) clears.

I think I will go with the HHKB. Maybe I'll try out some more exotic switches if I one day get the cash together to get a GON.
Thanks for the reply!

HHKBs are on sale currently at Elitekeyboards.com.

In my case, while I was trying every other keyboard that was ever made, people kept recommending the HHKB, but I was unsure if I would like the switches or the layout. Finally, as soon as I tried it, I knew I liked it, and it has become one of my all-time favorite keyboards. When I rotate to other keyboards, I remap them to the HHKB layout.

My only regret is that I did not go for the Type-S from the beginning. Last week, I ordered a Type-S, and I look forward to receiving it this week.

Hypersphere wrote: ↑HHKBs are on sale currently at Elitekeyboards.com.
My only regret is that I did not go for the Type-S from the beginning. Last week, I ordered a Type-S, and I look forward to receiving it this week.

What made you regret not getting the Type-S? What are the differences?

He's just got a bad case of the grass is always greener. Gotta catch 'em all! Just don't count on ever catching up to HaaTa, though, the western world's authority on deep, deep, catalogue keyboards.

I'd say go for the HHKB as well. You get the full package all in one, while the Poker is just a gateway to lots and lots more expense (caps, lube, new case, more caps, switches, more caps again, springs, even more caps) and will never actually get you to where Topre begins.

But! You're in Australia. I feel your pain of being so far from EK and Japan! HHKBs aren't even sold here in Europe, but DT's Topre expert: 002 runs a tour where a Realforce of his travels around for people to try out. That was my first taste of Topre, and it was pretty much exactly as I wanted it to be. (The HHKB I tried soon after was in fact bang on what I wanted, although I was only proxying it.) I've got a NovaTouch now (at CM's expense) so I'm okay, but an HHKB is definitely on my list, when I'm somewhere good for grabbing one.

I hear there's a Japanese seller or two on eBay who are likely the cheapest way to get an HHKB to Australia, as well as over here. But I'll let one of the guys who's actually used them speak to that.

Bomble wrote: ↑

Hypersphere wrote: ↑HHKBs are on sale currently at Elitekeyboards.com.
My only regret is that I did not go for the Type-S from the beginning. Last week, I ordered a Type-S, and I look forward to receiving it this week.

What made you regret not getting the Type-S? What are the differences?

I like the downstroke "thock" sound of the HHKB, but I don't like the return stroke "clack". The Type-S minimizes this return stroke sound. Some people do various silencing modifications on their HHKBs, but I have seen numerous posts saying that these are not as satisfactory as a factory-made Type-S.

Even with a standard HHKB, I am much happier with this keyboard than most others. The HHKB has a great combination of a 60% form factor, efficient/intuitive layout, and dye-sublimated PBT keycaps. It is a great-looking and fun to use board. The Type-S is just making a great product even better. The only drawback (for me) with the Type-S is that it is only available in white. I prefer the black case, on which I have installed white alphanumeric keycaps.

Muirium wrote: ↑I hear there's a Japanese seller or two on eBay who are likely the cheapest way to get an HHKB to Australia, as well as over here. But I'll let one of the guys who's actually used them speak to that.

Unfortunately eBay prices come out even higher than on EK! Would you recommend white rabbit express or another similar proxying site? I had a look around and that was the cheapest option I could find.

Thank you very much for your help so far!

Hypersphere wrote: ↑ I like the downstroke "thock" sound of the HHKB, but I don't like the return stroke "clack". The Type-S minimizes this return stroke sound. Some people do various silencing modifications on their HHKBs, but I have seen numerous posts saying that these are not as satisfactory as a factory-made Type-S.

Even with a standard HHKB, I am much happier with this keyboard than most others. The HHKB has a great combination of a 60% form factor, efficient/intuitive layout, and dye-sublimated PBT keycaps. It is a great-looking and fun to use board. The Type-S is just making a great product even better. The only drawback (for me) with the Type-S is that it is only available in white. I prefer the black case, on which I have installed white alphanumeric keycaps.

So the Type-S is effectively like a dental band mod but for the upstrokes as opposed to the downstrokes? Interesting. I'll definitely keep that in mind (Luckily I'm a big fan of the white).

But you really have sold me on an HHKB now. All i have to decide now is Type-S or standard. Thanks so much for your help!

Some site searches later, and I can't find that seller I mentioned before. From what I remember they played fast and loose on declaring value of goods, which made them cheap indeed! But here's Smart Imports, who are more honest but still pretty good for HHKBs worldwide:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PFU-Happy-Hac ... 25975534e8

Or their own site, off ebay:
http://www.smartimports.net/products/Ha ... nal2-.html

The best thing about HHKBs is they're legendary and easy to resell if you want to. The Type-S maintains its premium too. And yes, go white. The true HHKB!

Muirium wrote: ↑Some site searches later, and I can't find that seller I mentioned before. From what I remember they played fast and loose on declaring value of goods, which made them cheap indeed! But here's Smart Imports, who are more honest but still pretty good for HHKBs worldwide:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PFU-Happy-Hac ... 25975534e8

Or their own site, off ebay:
http://www.smartimports.net/products/Ha ... nal2-.html

The best thing about HHKBs is they're legendary and easy to resell if you want to. The Type-S maintains its premium too. And yes, go white. The true HHKB!

Looks like it won't come much cheaper. But as you said, that's okay! I'll either be a very happy man or I can pass it on to someone else at only a small cost to me. Thank you very much for helping me out!

I would not go for the type-s, because EK prices are ridiculously overpriced... If you can, try to get them directly from japan. I never tried a Type S but I've seen a lot review and I have verry similar results with my silenced Pro1 and Pro2.

If you don't mind modding it, you could go for the pro otherwise I'd recommend the type-s.

It's on you, the good thing is that their value will not fade as fast as modern MX boards.

pro/con
+ you can easlily sell them
+ one of the best build keyboards
+ one of the best keycaps
+/- awesome layout (- some don't like it)
+ legendary keyboard (can be a con if your expectations are too high)

- almost zero customization
- expensive
- controller not programmable
- abs spacebar
- abs housing, it can yellow over time (but I personally haven't seen a yellowed pro2)

-

cookie wrote: ↑I would not go for the type-s, because EK prices are ridiculously overpriced... If you can, try to get them directly from japan. I never tried a Type S but I've seen a lot review and I have verry similar results with my silenced Pro1 and Pro2.

If you don't mind modding it, you could go for the pro otherwise I'd recommend the type-s.

It's on you, the good thing is that their value will not fade as fast as modern MX boards.
-

I plan on buying it through either smart imports or white rabbit express, they each total to slightly over AU$300 (US$260). Unless anyone has another method which they can recommend.

I'm more than happy to mod it. I've just looked up sound comparisons and I'm tossing up between a stock or silenced pro 2. The Type-S just sounds weird to me. Is there a guide somewhere on how to silence topre switches, or Is it equivalent to just putting o-rings on MX switches. Is there something more to it?

Bomble wrote: ↑

cookie wrote: ↑I would not go for the type-s, because EK prices are ridiculously overpriced... If you can, try to get them directly from japan. I never tried a Type S but I've seen a lot review and I have verry similar results with my silenced Pro1 and Pro2.

If you don't mind modding it, you could go for the pro otherwise I'd recommend the type-s.

It's on you, the good thing is that their value will not fade as fast as modern MX boards.
-

I plan on buying it through either smart imports or white rabbit express, they each total to slightly over AU$300 (US$260). Unless anyone has another method which they can recommend.

I'm more than happy to mod it. I've just looked up sound comparisons and I'm tossing up between a stock or silenced pro 2. The Type-S just sounds weird to me. Is there a guide somewhere on how to silence topre switches, or Is it equivalent to just putting o-rings on MX switches. Is there something more to it?

DIY silencing of Topre switches is considerably more involved than simply putting O-rings on Cherry mx keycaps. Some people are satisfied with DIY silencing of the HHKB Pro 2, but I recommend against this and in favor of buying the Type-S. EK has the Type-S on sale now for $331.

I expirimented myself with several silencing mods on my hhkbs and those 2 are the one I am most satisfied with:
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/happ ... b%20ghetto
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/topr ... b%20ghetto

I am currently trying out different material to get the best silencing and almost no reduction in travel.
The O-Ring and dental band modification were absolute inaceptable, the impact on the key travel are just too much. You will lose the characteristic Topre feel.

I highly recommend foam as dampering material, the silicone was nice and I still have it in my pro2 but I absolutely love how the pro1 turned out!

Hypersphere wrote: ↑

Bomble wrote: ↑

cookie wrote: ↑I would not go for the type-s, because EK prices are ridiculously overpriced... If you can, try to get them directly from japan. I never tried a Type S but I've seen a lot review and I have verry similar results with my silenced Pro1 and Pro2.

If you don't mind modding it, you could go for the pro otherwise I'd recommend the type-s.

It's on you, the good thing is that their value will not fade as fast as modern MX boards.
-

I plan on buying it through either smart imports or white rabbit express, they each total to slightly over AU$300 (US$260). Unless anyone has another method which they can recommend.

I'm more than happy to mod it. I've just looked up sound comparisons and I'm tossing up between a stock or silenced pro 2. The Type-S just sounds weird to me. Is there a guide somewhere on how to silence topre switches, or Is it equivalent to just putting o-rings on MX switches. Is there something more to it?

DIY silencing of Topre switches is considerably more involved than simply putting O-rings on Cherry mx keycaps. Some people are satisfied with DIY silencing of the HHKB Pro 2, but I recommend against this and in favor of buying the Type-S. EK has the Type-S on sale now for $331.

As much as that is a good price, I just really don't like the sound of the Type-S at all. I much prefer the stock Pro 2. If I don't have the patience or the means for silencing it, then leaving it as-is won't be an issue.

cookie wrote: ↑I expirimented myself with several silencing mods on my hhkbs and those 2 are the one I am most satisfied with:
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/happ ... b%20ghetto
http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/topr ... b%20ghetto

I am currently trying out different material to get the best silencing and almost no reduction in travel.
The O-Ring and dental band modification were absolute inaceptable, the impact on the key travel are just too much. You will lose the characteristic Topre feel.

I highly recommend foam as dampering material, the silicone was nice and I still have it in my pro2 but I absolutely love how the pro1 turned out!

Wow that is much more involved than just putting on o-rings. Would some soft landing pads work instead of custom cutting a foam sheet?

Bomble wrote: ↑Would some soft landing pads work instead of custom cutting a foam sheet?

No, the thing is that with Topre, you want to silence the upstroke rather than the downstroke, whick means that you do need to disassemble it. As Hypersphere and cookie said, you can always go for the type-s if the modding seems out of your league.

Khers wrote: ↑

Bomble wrote: ↑Would some soft landing pads work instead of custom cutting a foam sheet?

No, the thing is that with Topre, you want to silence the upstroke rather than the downstroke, whick means that you do need to disassemble it. As Hypersphere and cookie said, you can always go for the type-s if the modding seems out of your league.

Whoops, I forgot about that.. As much as I'd like to be an elitist and get a Type-S, it just doesn't sound that great IMO. Plus, I think modding it could be a fun project should I decide that I don't like the upstroke clacking noise.

And you can alwasy go back if the modding doesn't satisfy you! This is not the case with a Type-s!
In the end it is up to you, the good thing is you have the choice.

cookie wrote: ↑And you can alwasy go back if the modding doesn't satisfy you! This is not the case with a Type-s!
In the end it is up to you, the good thing is you have the choice.

Exactly, and it also leaves me an excuse to buy another board down the line Now I have to hope that I have the patience to slowly put money aside for a few months instead of just dropping $300 straight away. Hope.

It could maybe be of interest for you that I am maybe planing on releaseing some kind of dampering kit for topre switches!
I was busi lately and I haven't found a material which satisfy me 100% I will announce more detailed informations later.

@cookie,

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with regarding a Topre dampening kit. Thanks.

I am working on it, but I had lot of private stuff to do lately. But I will present resunts soon, hang on!

Cool. I'm definitely interested in going further with my NovaTouch. It responded nicely to the foam rings you sent me! And that topping out rattle is more of a problem on the CM than a native Topre.

cookie wrote: ↑It could maybe be of interest for you that I am maybe planing on releaseing some kind of dampering kit for topre switches!
I was busi lately and I haven't found a material which satisfy me 100% I will announce more detailed informations later.

Sweet, that sounds great! Look forward to any news that you might have on that.