deskthority

So my friend and his wife are both having hand issues and I was thinking of ways to make things easier on them. My idea is a foot switch accessory that would plug into the keyboard directly with three pedals on it. turning it into a chorded keyboard. Pushing down 1 would shift the home row up one so the A row becomes Z, 2 would make the A row the Q row, and 3 would make it the number row. You could technically do that with only two pedals using 1+2 at the same time to get 3, but this is better if someone only has one foot. Also then you could use 1+2, 1+3, and 2+3 for other keys such as punctuation or whatever else. This could either be a full board (so it could still be used normally) or a row of one buttons (to save on cost.) Also ideally this would be a split one so each half could be placed where it's most comfortable. Maybe have it use the Workman layout so the user would have to switch layers even less too.

I was just wondering about people's thoughts on this.

Scary Guy wrote: ↑

08 Sep 2022, 14:21

[…] My idea is a foot switch accessory that would plug into the keyboard directly with three pedals on it. turning it into a chorded keyboard. Pushing down 1 would shift the home row up one so the A row becomes Z, 2 would make the A row the Q row, and 3 would make it the number row.
[…]
I was just wondering about people's thoughts on this.

Not sure what you mean - do you suggest physically typing on always the same row with the foot switch defining the digital output?
If so, while this would be simple to program with a Tipro, I doubt this way of combining hand and foot muscle memory would work well.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean, and I'm not saying it would be easy at all. Even The Twiddlerhttps://twiddler.tekgear.com/ takes some getting used to and has a learning curve. It's more of a thing for the disabled where it is physically hard/painful to move their hands. This would ideally minimize that movement as much as possible.

Vocal speech recognition can work okay but has some errors. If you're distrustful of large corporations, if you do find software it has way more errors too.

Ooh, another idea is to have the buttons adjustable horizontally so the user can splay their fingers where they are most comfortable.

Instead of a foot switch you could also use thumb keys to switch rows.

The foot switch sounds like an interesting concept. At an assumed typing speed, and a generous assumption that you need to change row every 4th character, that's roughly 1 foot toggle every second, which might be manageable. I think multiple pedals for the alphas can be tiresome, due to the frequent lateral movement of the foot. But with an optimized layout, and let's say 5 columns on each hand, that's 20 characters, so using just one pedal for "normal" typing seems to be almost alright. Maybe a multistage pedal can work? Like the analogue ones for guitar effects? This might be harder to learn, as there is no tactile feedback on whether you just changed layer.
I don't think the concept you are describing is chording, technically, it's just layers.

An option similar to the one you are describing is something using ASETNIOP, like the (Space) Ginny, which is 100% chording. Minimal movement, but quite some learning curve.

Ben Vallack has made some interesting content on ergonomic keyboards with minimal travel, both presenting keyboards with as little as 16-key (2 rows though), and guides on how to design a small ergonomic keyboard that fits your needs.

Personally I use a wireless 34-key keyboard based off the Architeuthis Dux (a dux), which is a bit more manageable. It took a lot of time to get used to the small amount of keys, but my fingers have minimal travel, and I never have to contort my hands in odd ways to do stuff.

Another thing about foot pedals is that they have an effect on your posture, making sure that your foot is always placed in the same place. Having your feet planted solid on the floor is good, and now you're forced to do it, so maybe that's good? Or maybe the body doesn't get enough flexibility and it's bad? I don't know.

Foot pedals acting as an additional finger might work out I could imagine, but getting the design right and learning to use your foot in such a way without causing repeated strain to it will be some work. I'm hoping someone brings a similar idea to life, since I'd love to see how the concept works out!

Well a two pedal system wouldn't need all that movement. Though I think the movement might be good to help prevent (or at least ward off) things like possible clotting.

Lots of neat things you just mentioned though! That ASHTNIOP thing is neat too.

How much do these two people still want to type, and have they themselves expressed interest in alternative keyboard layouts? I’m just wondering the extent to which this is your project and they are to be evangelised.

I tried Colemak: that small step of a layout, going on ten years ago, and again sometime since. I really did. It bloody well drove me to distraction just how slow I was and remained. All my automatic typing skill was gone, indeed even worse: gjgf jiky bj;. Ahem! My muscle memory was actively tripping me up. I couldn’t bear it. I honestly found it harder than picking up a new language, which I have done since.

In their place, I’d get into speech recognition. No forced new skill required. And so I do use it when on my phone and especially just the watch. It’s still imperfect—I quite enjoy arguing with it aloud when it drops a doozy—but it’s gotten good enough to be worth criticising at last. It’s a good time now to explore that.

Obligatory mention: Dasher

Some cheaper eye tracking is actually usable these days.

Regarding feet-controlled input, why not a Dance Dance Revolution controller or similar?

Muirium wrote: ↑

09 Sep 2022, 10:12

How much do these two people still want to type, and have they themselves expressed interest in alternative keyboard layouts? I’m just wondering the extent to which this is your project and they are to be evangelised.

I tried Colemak: that small step of a layout, going on ten years ago, and again sometime since. I really did. It bloody well drove me to distraction just how slow I was and remained. All my automatic typing skill was gone, indeed even worse: gjgf jiky bj;. Ahem! My muscle memory was actively tripping me up. I couldn’t bear it. I honestly found it harder than picking up a new language, which I have done since.

In their place, I’d get into speech recognition. No forced new skill required. And so I do use it when on my phone and especially just the watch. It’s still imperfect—I quite enjoy arguing with it aloud when it drops a doozy—but it’s gotten good enough to be worth criticising at last. It’s a good time now to explore that.

Well they met online, and I'm not sure about her but he is a gigantic nerd who loves (and hates, so much hate) technology. Computers are a bit of a way of life for us. Not typing would be like severing a limb.

This is totally my idea though, and I just like throwing ideas out there. Maybe I get some good feedback, or maybe someone else gets inspired by it. Either way is a win.

They say learning a new layout isn't worth it. I switched to Workman on my main keyboard and my android. I am getting used to it and type almost at what I was before, which admittedly wasn't very fast. Muscle memory kicks in less these days, but I've only been doing it a week or so. You cannot half-ass it though, you have to commit fully. Like quitting smoking cold turkey.

I think if he had any type of voice recognition in his house he'd shoot it believing it to be a possible wiretap.

davkol wrote: ↑

09 Sep 2022, 21:26

Obligatory mention: Dasher

Some cheaper eye tracking is actually usable these days.

Regarding feet-controlled input, why not a Dance Dance Revolution controller or similar?

I've tried Dasher on Android years ago and thought it was neat. They have tried it too. Maybe they'll look into it again.

I haven't ever used DDR, or seen the controller except in the arcade. Closest I had was the Nintendo power-pad and that running/jumping game it came with. I suppose it could work though.

Fair enough, if they’ve got what it takes, why not give it a shot?

It’s a tough ask though. And you’re right about the dedication required. That may well also apply to any changes you might make once they’ve got started. Don’t over iterate. Starting from right back down in a heap on the floor is always painful.

This setup requires both configuration and learning time, while a new layout "only" requires learning time (can't say which takes longer though). If they are not willing to learn a new layout, this might be a bit over-the-top. While I'm a big proponent of ergo keyboards, they are necessarily not the only solution to typing related injuries. Proper posture, avoiding frequent contortion and physical exercises can do wonders. A physical therapist might be able to give a better idea of what can be done to help.

They are seeing one and most just seem to give basic advice. Both my cousins have had issues as well so I gave them some trackballs to try out, along with some suggestions that I thought were pretty sound (as in they didn't seem like snake oil.)

I think any excess phone use doesn't help either though. Browsing Facebook/Reddit/Twitter/whatever for hours with your head down / arms up doesn't seem good at all, even laying in bed. Having a separate Bluetooth keyboard goes a long way to help with that too, but not everyone wants to carry one of those around.

I think a part of the problem is people will not notice they are damaging themselves until things start to actually hurt. It's possible to repair at least but harder if it's happening daily for an actual job.

As far as feet go I think it's good to at the very least get the modifier keys off the keyboard. I'm lazy and dumb so I generally will use one hand to do both functions. As most of us know we should use one hand to hold the modifier(s) and the other to use the desired modified key, which I learned in school and promptly ignored. My issue is half the time my hand is on the mouse so a foot switch seemed like a good compromise. Though even when I had a foot switch I would forget to use it. I changed the firmware on the keyboard to move the mod keys to another layer to force myself to use the foot switch I had, which is when I noticed it was malfunctioning and so I changed it back for now.

Scary Guy wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2022, 08:15

[…] I think it's good to at the very least get the modifier keys off the keyboard. I'm lazy and dumb so I generally will use one hand to do both functions. As most of us know we should use one hand to hold the modifier(s) and the other to use the desired modified key, which I learned in school and promptly ignored. […]

Sounds like someone who, after learning to drive in the UK (driver seat on the right side) and later moving to a country where the driver seat is at the left, refuses to change seats, instead stretching their legs to reach the pedals and their arms to reach all the commands around the wheel.
Not sure whether that’s lazy, but it certainly is dumb

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence Here, I got this for you.

You can also import a LHT vehicle in the US, which I think getting one of those and driving on the wrong side of the road would have been a closer (but still inaccurate) comparison.

Finally, one handed people have no option but to do that, so it would benefit them anyway.

Scary Guy wrote: ↑

12 Sep 2022, 08:15

I'm lazy and dumb so…

I’d Google Moving the Goalposts for you, but I wouldn’t want to seem condescending to the one handed, who are proud and capable people who can pour on the sarcasm quite by themselves.