deskthority

So I had never really considered vertical mice until a thread here a couple of months ago piqued my interest. The concept made sense, and I found a good cheap Chinese mouse on ebay.

I had made the switch to left–hand mousing a year or two ago, and have been delighted with it. Although I am strongly right–handed, I have decided that mousing is a secondary task, not a primary one. Freeing my right hand for writing, operating the numpad, and answering the phone has been great.

My first vertical mouse was a right–hand knock–off of the Wow Joy Pen mouse, and I love it! It took my hand about 3 days to settle onto the proper position, but from there it has been smooth sailing. I have large hands, and kept trying to stay “up on” the mouse. When I finally realized that I needed to drag the last two fingers on the ground, they became my movers and navigators, which is far more precise than using the wrist and forearm.

As I understand it, this is not the fastest mouse for gamers, but I don’t care. Yes, they should lighten the click and improve the wheel, but the price was less than half the price of the name brand, so, even better!

But, what I really wanted, of course, was a left–hand mouse. Not only is there no cheap left–hand Chinese knock–off of the Joy mouse, apparently there is no name brand lefty, either. Damn!

As far as I can tell, the only left–hand vertical mouse is the Evoluent, so I got one.

It just plain sucks. Everything about it is wrong. The Joy is nice because it leans over at about 45 degrees toward the center so that your arm is completely natural.

I really get it – that a conventional mouse forces you to rotate your forearm about 45 degrees too far counterclockwise (the right–hand model, that is). That is a strong and valid argument. But the Evoluent is too upright! It forces your forearm to rotate 45 degrees too far – out!

But the greater problem is that it forces you to actually “hold” the mouse in a sort of clamping or pinching action. If you try to click with a finger, you have to be resisting that force with your thumb, or else the mouse moves rather than the switch activating. With a conventional flat mouse, you can simply tap the button with your finger and gravity assists you. Then if you want to push it around, that is another motion that you can do with any part of your hand, for me, it is the heel of my palm.

Bottom line – I hate the Evoluent mouse because of its upright posture, which makes it far too difficult to use, and the fact that my thumb must be involved at all times.

Does anyone know of a good left–hand, vertical mouse that is easy and comfortable to use like the Wow Joy Pen? Now that I feel how nice it is, I am very frustrated that what I want does not exist.

I'm using an evoluent and my main problem is that my hand is not really resting on the table anymore. Maybe the idea was to make me use my entire arm for mousing but it feels weird. Can you take a picture of how you use it? And where can I get one of those others?

I think that you being right-handed has a lot to do with why you don't like your left-handed Evoluent.

I have owned left-handed Evoluent (also sparkly purple like in the picture ) and I have also used a right-handed Evoluent at work for about a year (before I quit). At home, I have been using a modified WowPen Joy for about two years.
Being right-handed, the right-handed Evoluent felt of course much nicer than the left-handed one. I found the WowPen Joy to be nicer to hold than the Evoluent, but I did not find the right-handed Evoluent to be absolutely horrible either.
The biggest plus with the WowPen in comparison, however, was that it did not do "prediction" (trying to lock into the X and Y axes) like the Evoluents do.

BTW, changing the switches in the WowPen Joy to softer switches is an absolute must. (That is how mine is "modified")
The Evoluents do have very nice buttons, quite a bit of travel, are sensitive all over and not on a "hinge" (as on the WowPen).
If the WowPen Joy had buttons like the Evoluent, and a better sensor, then it would be the ideal mouse.

I have torn dozens of keyboards to pieces, but have not messed with the insides of mice before.

What switches did you put in the Joy Pen? Until I find a left-hand one, I am not sure that I want to go to the trouble.

The Evoluent switches are very nice, no doubt, but it is the wrist/hand position that is so horrible to me. And having to hold with my thumb when I click, that is extremely frustrating.

Here is the mouse that I bought, but it looks like they sold out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271049386621

Here is a shot of my right hand with the first 2 fingers on the mouse, and the last 2 on the table. When I got the Joy Pen I could not understand why the buttons were so low. Now I hate the Evoluent because those buttons are so high .....

fohat wrote:What switches did you put in the Joy Pen?

They were Omron microswitches that I got from another mouse. I changed only the left and right mouse buttons.

I'd love to see any pics or how-to's on modding the wowpen mouse. Tried one a few years ago, loved the shape, hated the feel of the switches. I wonder if it would be possible to put a better sensor/board in as well as better switches?

I have never done any soldering/desoldering or serious PCB mods, but would love to try if it meant finally getting a decent ergonomic and high quality mouse.

I bought another mouse, this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380468204499


which is not as nice as the first one. It does not have the "rubbery" texture where my hand rests on it, like the other one did, but it is exactly the same shape.

I bought a good old Logitech ball mouse at a thrift store and swapped the 2 primary switches. It was not too difficult, getting the old switches off was far harder than putting the new ones on.

There is a great difference, and I love it. Now I need to do the original mouse, since I have made a successful experiment.

Now I just wish that somebody would make a left-hand model!

Is there anything tiny like the joypen for lefties? Swapping the switches shouldn't be hard, i guess.

fohat wrote: I bought a good old Logitech ball mouse at a thrift store and swapped the 2 primary switches. It was not too difficult, getting the old switches off was far harder than putting the new ones on.

If you have time in your busy schedule, could you be so kind as to provide pictures on how you modified that mouse with the Logitech switches?

I would love to follow your route and get a vertical mouse, simply because all the current Logitech/Microsoft rodents all have that ancient unergonomic hand grip.

It would promote the sale and use of these type of (vertical) mice for people who have serious issues with pain and prolonged misery, with using the normal-styled rodent.

I figure this thread would be good one to continue discussing vertical mice. I wondering if anybody has used these vertical mice:

1. http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... omicmouse/
2. http://www.fentek-ind.com/penclic.htm#wireless_penclic. Something like that, but maybe not that particular model.
My concerns with a pen mouse is that switching from typing to picking up and using the pen mouse would get annoying.

With the vertical mouse, my concern there is desk space as compared to a trackball, which I don't have to move around my desk. Also it does not seem to be ambidextrous, which is a must if I am buying a mouse.

Can anybody that has used these items describe their experiences?

Looks like nobody is that interested in vertical mice.

Well, if you fixed the image links, that might help. I can just see the 'code' for displaying links.

Oops. Fixed.

I have one, the original Anir mouse. The only difference is the way you hold it. I call that placebo ergonomics. It works, because you hold the thing differently. But inherently it isn't better or more ergonomic (despite the rap that it is a more natural position - your hands are made for all kinds of natural positions). If you'd hold it like that all your life, you'd get pain and a normal mouse would be the solution. Still a valid ergonomic solution, because I think the main cause of pain and injury is lack of variation. Nothing magical about it though.

webwit wrote:I have one, the original Anir mouse. The only difference is the way you hold it. I call that placebo ergonomics. It works, because you hold the thing differently. But inherently it isn't better or more ergonomic (despite the rap that it is a more natural position - your hands are made for all kinds of natural positions). If you'd hold it like that all your life, you'd get pain and a normal mouse would be the solution. Still a valid ergonomic solution, because I think the main cause of pain and injury is lack of variation. Nothing magical about it though.

Thanks. I read the Anir mouse has a scroll button, not a scroll wheel, so the user has to hold the button and physically move the mouse in order to scroll. I do a lot of scrolling, so that would be a big turnoff for me.

Try the OysterMouse, if you need left hand switchability and dont feel a vertical mouse works for you...and a lot of people feel that way.
Its got 5 Different angular positions... from horizontal to vertical
6 buttons and a scroll wheel
Switchable from right to left handed
Mac & PC compatible
Wired and wireless versions too

..... and Its an Ergonomic award winner

Thanks for sharing the oyster .. looks interesting and finally something for lefties;
i do however expect it to be too cheaply built for 110$ (judging form some details on various pictures)

The problem with many of these special type mices is they have horrid sensors that dont track well.. : [

Feels like you're holding a dick :/

cinnamoncider wrote:Feels like you're holding a dick :/

charming

My first vertical mouse is a Chinese Wow Pen Joy knock-off. Too big for my hand but still pretty usable. Unfortunately its construction is very cheap: when after a month of moderate home use the scroll wheel stopped working I've found out the wheel is held in place on one end purely by traction and small indentation in the photo detector (?), and the other end is resting freely on the middle button's switch. I've managed to get the middle click working again but not the scrolling.

So I've bought a second one. This time I've got a different one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/221502703519 It's much smaller and fits perfectly, but a month later same thing is happening: the scrolling wheel behaves erratically, jerking the scrolled media up and down. This time the wheel seems to have a proper support yet cleaning the wheel doesn't change much -- scrolling has become unusable.

Nevertheless, no more flat mices for me

I got a WowPen for 23€ inc. shipping to Europe from ebay some time ago. I think that was quite a good deal, esp while almost all ergonomic products are daylight robbery.

It is quite usable and much better than a flat mouse. About a year ago I had some serious wrist pain issues, that are now mostly gone. I wouldn't attribute that to the mouse, but I think it helped. But for my hands It's to small. I'd think That a too big mouse would be less of a problem. It'd be nice if they give hints for the hand size they aim for.

Just for the record: After definition http://deskthority.net/off-topic-f10/me ... our%20hand the specs of my hand are:

Length: 20 cm
Width: 20,5 cm

IMO quite average. The wowpen joy will fit people with sightly smaller hands.

Update: the scroll wheel wore out on mine, also.

I replaced it with and Anker vertical mouse which I quite like. Better build quality, I think, and very reasonable price.

It is flatter and takes a bit more of a "pinching" grip than a "wrapping" grip. Also, I have large hands and hold it far back with my fingertips doing the work.

It did not take long to become accustomed to it, and that would be my new recommendation.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Anker-Ergonomic ... 58c5d8d15a

Hi guys,

So i wanted to share my experience with a couple of mice..

All in effort to relive the pain i sum times experience in my wrists.
And mouse hand..

So the first mouse i want to talk about is one that i just returned because i didn't like it 100%..
It's the "R-Go HE Mouse Vertical Mouse Large Right"
Perhaps a point by point pro's / cons would help.

* Pro's

- dpi switch.. This helps because when i increase the sensitivity i can use small movements to travel from one
corner of the screen to the other.. (with two screens that's a major plus).
- Licht weight , because it's corded no need for batteries so no added weight.
- Braided cable
- Nice height i have relative large hands so a large mouse in height helps..
- logo changes color with DPI level.. Nice..

* Negatives
- area where my hand rests is not large enough so i can't rest my hand and have to keep tention on it..
- Wheel has no hyperScrolling like Logitch mice.
- buttons feel cheap when clicked ..

Summary;

Not really ergonomic because it doesn't offer a real resting position for my hand..
So i had to return it..
Can't really recommend it..

Here is the product link if your curious
http://www.r-go-tools.com/en/ergonomic- ... 90463.html

So this was my first ergonomic mouse..
Really expensive to tryout..
Spoiler i had to return it ..But read along..and see why It has awesome potential..
" Hippus Handshoe Mouse Medium"

As soon as you start to search for ergonomic mice you find vertical mice according to many you should keep you hand
vertical because that's the correct position...

In truth that's neither true nor false. (in my humble opinion, proven correct by this mouse)
In reality (again my opinion) you have two options worth considering ..active and relax or passive resting position..

If you go for active choices become a bit more difficult because you could go for the pen or joystick solution.
Alas i have not tried these solutions so i don't know if they would work..

And there is the so called vertical handshake position where most of the ergonomic mice reside..
Like the vertical mouse from R-Go Tools (previous mouse overview).

And than we have the relax or resting position..
In order for a vertical mouse to fall in this category it should provide enough room for your hand to comfortably rest.
Also rest without touching the desk! Because as soon as you toch your desk you will be putting tention on your muscle tendons..

The only mouse i found that really put my hand in to a resting position without me having to put tention in my tendons ahas the Handshoe mouse.

The means glove mouse . Handschoen is dutch for hand glove.

So the handshoe mouse..it comes for either left or richt handed people..
I different sizes so you will have to measure your hand..

* Pro's;

- removable mouse cable
- bradded cable
- comes either with batteries or cable , i prefer cable because you can keep the weight down..
- finally a mouse that really prevents pain by giving my hand a position to rest in..
- great packaging impressive.. You feel like your getting a premium deal.. (a must for this price point)
- removable weights . they look like square rings nice concept

* Cons;
- No dpi button/switch
Because of the size moving this mouse across two screens or a large 30-inch is like having an elephant in a china-cabnet.
(a ducht saying) My main keyboard is the Leopold FC660M almost as big as the Apple wireless keyboard..
So it's smaller than a TenKeyLess keyboard around the size of a Poker3 (perhaps a better reference for sum)..

So hitting the side of my keyboard when navigating really surprised me..
This could have bin avoided if the mouse had a hardware option to increase sensitivity

- Buttons feel ok, nothing spectacular
- wheel feels cheap , Comming from the Logitech M500 if feels like going back in time to my first mouse..
- the compartment that holds the weights is secured by a long screw and the weights slide in true a hole true in the middel of them..Like a donut true a pencil..
There is no filler inside..Meaning here are no dummy weights so if you decide to use 50% of them the rest just falls in..


Final Conclusion..
As mentioned i returned this mouse despite it being the best mouse for my pain.
The reason being i felt it needed a 2.0 version with lots of improvements in order to justify the asking price..

i already emailed the people at handshoemouse.com and told them the exact things i'm telling you guys.
Of course their first reaction in regards to the dpi switch was "it's not a gaming mouse" so i explained again

What does it need to become awesome..

- Dpi switch with this range or better 800-1600-2400-3200. and a way to tell what level i'm in. Not with software.
- filler for the compartment where the weights go..having to Adding a pice of electric tape is just not ok.
- micro-usb instead of mini-usb.. just read the wiki article regarding connector life time..
- Better scrolling wheel with hyper scrolling..
- Better feeling buttons..Just feel a Logitch
- easy serviceable parts..Replacing switches and so forth..
Because buying a mouse in this price category means i'm serious about quality and ergonomics.
So building with service in mind is a must..


Hope this helped ..Take care..

Hi, I saw this a bit late. I currently use a Evoluent V2 corded at work. I do agree that it is a bit too upright but an OK comprise for my wrists. I'm pushing 60 and the tendonitis is pretty bad. On a conventional mouse the pain starts in less than an hour. My ideal mouse is what I use at home. A 10 yr old Logitech Trackman FX, thr RA17 variant. It the perfect angle for me a bit to the left that the Evoluent and being a trackball no wrist or arm movement. Problem is since they have been discontinues they go for stupid money. I've been out bid on Fleabay at $80 on every one. And this was a $45 item new.
Jim

Anyone tried the Anker vertical mouse? I'm actually tempted to try one out. It's very cheap so I guess it makes a decent first vertical mouse.

I did end up buying the Anker vertical mouse.

It's okay for the price but the low DPI settings are kinda ruining the experience for me. I had to step up the windows mouse sensitivity setting, which is the lesser evil I guess. It really annoys me the fact that the mouse always boots up with 1000 DPI when I really prefer the 1600 DPI. I don't use the scroll button but if you do use the scroll button don't get this mouse. It's actually hard to press it. I also prefer laser sensors but that is a very minor nitpick.

It's very easy to get used to the mouse and it's comfortable. I'm not sure what I was expecting but it doesn't feel any different from my regular mouse. I guess that's a good thing?

Can somebody tell me weather the Anker mouse is bigger than the wowpen?

I had to stop using the Anker mouse. After 1 week of use I started having wrist pain, which had never happened. Stopped using it for almost a week and the pain is gone.

I'm gonna be selling this one, for sure. It also makes no sense that an ergonomical mouse has such low DPI. For low resolutions it's okay, I guess, but even at 1080p it's bad.