deskthority

Hey guys,

If I had to pick one resource for info about IBM Model M's, it'd be DT's IBM Enhanced Keyboard article.

However, I've noticed that most of the Model M terminal variants (those with other than AT and PS/2 connectors) aren't there.

Is this intentional, or due to an attitude that—because these variants need a controller replacement, or the addition of a secondary PCB (Teensy, etc.), to be used with a modern PC—they're somehow less than "real" Model M's?

My personal feeling is, they are M's, and it'd be right to include them. It'd also help less-experienced Model M shoppers know what they were buying.

If you approve, I'd be glad to start tracking down and entering details on the terminal part numbers. Cheers, A.

That would likely be because IBM Enhanced Keyboard doesn't refer to all Model Ms, it just refers to the 101-key (and derived layouts) ones. There are terminal keyboards that are Enhanced Keyboards (and some are mentioned in that article), but not all terminal Model Ms are Enhanced Keyboards. For instance, a 122-key Model M is not.

I'm just thinking it'd be valuable to have the terminal M's mentioned here somewhere, as it's tricky to find info on them otherwise. They sometimes appear on eBay without photos of their connector (usually because the seller doesn't know how important that is), and it would be good to be able to ID them quickly and easily.

I understand how you'd rather not include terminal M's on the Enhanced Keyboard page. They're not much use to most people without considerable modification, and the various terminal p/n's would clutter the list of "useful" M's. Would it make any sense to start a separate page for them?

Or maybe it would be more practical to add them to Wikipedia's Model M page, as its p/n list's table format is more concise. Then there'd finally be a list of all known 101-key p/n's in one place.

If your looking at a terminal keyboard online and are not sure you can always ask us. Of course it would be nice to have all the data in our wiki but consider the work in that also.

I agree with Ander, more information the the Model M 122 terminal and similar would be useful , they are often incorrectly listed as model F keyboard on eBay as the share the early variants share the same top case.

Yes true Andrew, it's often the silver label 122 that can be either model F or M.

seebart wrote: ↑Yes true Andrew, it's often the silver label 122 that can be either model F or M.

Usually ( but not always) you can tell as the model M usually does not have the hat type (model F style) mods. But sometimes they do, thats for that IBM very helpfull. The ledges again can sometimes give it away.

Best bet is to ask for a photo of the back of the keyboard , the model Ms have a plastic back ( dead giveaway)

EDIT

it also does not help that the 122 silver label model M is known as a type F ( on the table at the back) even tho its a model m , so we its listed as a type F that does not mean is a model F ( buckling spring over PCB)

Yep, I think it'd be nice to document these M 122s ... plus it can be confusing since many of them look different but are still "Ms". Like this one is Mu's M 122 from 1990:



and mine M 122 is from 1988:



Could be really confusing for some users/shoppers.

It's not that the Enhanced Keyboards are "useful" versus the 122s not being "useful", it's that the Enhanced Keyboard is the 101/102-layout Model M, end of story, and another page would be appropriate for the 122s.

Basically, the Enhanced Keyboards are Model Ms, but not all Model Ms are Enhanced Keyboards.

bhtooefr wrote: ↑ ... and another page would be appropriate for the 122s. ...

That could be a solution.

does the 102 terminal ( silver label) count as a Enhanced keyboard ? Considering the only real layout difference is the split + on the num pad ? Legends aside of course

Hmm. I'd guess probably not. Different connector, protocol, intended use. But that's IBM's branding decision, not ours. We need documents to settle it for sure.

How is the rollover on that silver label terminal M of yours, Andy? I find IBM messed up the mods on my terminal Ms versus the PS/2 ones. They optimised the matrix on the consumer boards to give priority to the mods. So you can press Shift+Alt+Arrows for instance (essential for editing text) despite the M still being ultimately 2KRO. The terminal Ms weren't so smart.

The rollover is pretty much the same as my SSK, the matrix is identical to a normal model M as far as i know.

Ander wrote: ↑I'm just thinking it'd be valuable to have the terminal M's mentioned here somewhere, as it's tricky to find info on them otherwise. They sometimes appear on eBay without photos of their connector (usually because the seller doesn't know how important that is), and it would be good to be able to ID them quickly and easily.

I understand how you'd rather not include terminal M's on the Enhanced Keyboard page. They're not much use to most people without considerable modification, and the various terminal p/n's would clutter the list of "useful" M's. Would it make any sense to start a separate page for them?

Or maybe it would be more practical to add them to Wikipedia's Model M page, as its p/n list's table format is more concise. Then there'd finally be a list of all known 101-key p/n's in one place.

The table from Wikipedia is not more concise, just more complete because we, uh, basically didn't write down one yet If someone decided to search DT and collect P/Ns from Model Ms, I'm confident that (s)he would easily end up compiling a list longer than that. Or one might try asking IBM nicely

I wouldn't limit the research to IBM Enhanced Keyboards only - I'd go for every single mechanical keyboard IBM has manufactured, though it would make sense to focus mostly on Ms and Fs as we know them today. I hear things get messy near the end of the cycle when Lexmark enters the picture and a single P/N suddenly refers to different boards at once, but all the data collected up to that point in time would come in handy, both as reference for everybody and also for those who at some point boldly move Ms and Fs from the common page they are sharing right now to separate pages, documenting each member of the family (XT, 5291, F-122, etc.) in more detail.

Such list(s) of P/Ns might go into a separate page in the "Guides" section of the wiki, at least while they are in WIP status.

Thoughts? Volunteers?