deskthority

IMO, we need a category for recently discontinued keyboards -- they are not manufactured any longer; they are not readily available in retail stores; they can be still found in online stores or second hand ... but they are not "Category:Vintage keyboards" and they really don't belong to "Category:Contemporary keyboards".

Maybe something like "Category:Discontinued keyboards" or "Category:Out-of-production keyboards" or "Category:Contemporary discontinued keyboards".

Examples would be ... KBT RACE (I), Razer BlackWidow Tournament Edition (2013 with Cherry MX Blue), etc.

I guess, the other (easier) way around would be simply not to assign the "Vintage" or "Contemporary" category on the keyboard page for those a few years old keyboards that are not manufactured any longer and use the infobox for the ending year (if known). ... your thoughts?

Obsolescent? A single word version of Recently Discontinued would be nice, but I can't think of one. And obsolescent isn't any good because it implies old boards are obsolete, so therefore worthless junk, just like most people so often think when trashing the good stuff.

Muirium wrote: ↑Obsolescent? A single word version of Recently Discontinued would be nice, but I can't think of one. And obsolescent isn't any good because it implies old boards are obsolete, so therefore worthless junk, just like most people so often think when trashing the good stuff.

Yes, it'd be nice to find a simple term that everyone would understand. "Recently discontinued" or "Discontinued" would probably do. We'll probably have to do this since there is a pile of "new" (a couple of years old) keyboards that will be hitting that new category (Poker, Poker II, and pretty much any keyboard that gets an updated version every few years).

Sometimes when you want to re-purchase the same item from Amazon you'll get a notification "a newer version of this product is available" -- so I guess they didn't really resolve it since the old (discontinued) version is still in stock, but the new version is also available.

Maybe, in a way, this is more of a reflection of the "throw-away society" issues than our inability to coin the term for something that is new, but mostly same as the "old", and not necessarily better than the "old" (as in the case of the original Poker and Poker 2, 3)

IMO the KBT Race, Razers and so on still count as "contemporary" (as in modern) keyboards. The fact that they are no longer produced doesn't mean they are vintage material -- I don't think an specific category is needed for recent keyboards that just happen to have reached EOL, we already have the "Discontinued" bit for that. I'd rather like to know exactly what qualifies as "vintage"... Anything 20+ years old maybe? Anything with a PS/2 connector or older?

tactica wrote: ↑IMO the KBT Race, Razers and so on still count as "contemporary" (as in modern) keyboards. The fact that they are no longer produced doesn't mean they are vintage material -- I don't think an specific category is needed for recent keyboards that just happen to have reached EOL, we already have the "Discontinued" bit for that. I'd rather like to know exactly what qualifies as "vintage"... Anything 20+ years old maybe? Anything with a PS/2 connector or older?

I can't find "Category:Discontinued", maybe it's under some other name.

But, I proposed the new category because:
- "Contemporary" is defined (under keyboards) in this wiki as, "This is a list of keyboard models that should be available new in retail or online, and not just on the second-hand market."; and
- "Vintage" is defined (under companies) in this wiki as, "Vintage input device related brands and companies. Note that vintage in this context means no longer in existence, as opposed to old companies which are still in existence (such as IBM)."

Maybe not specifying the "vintage/contemporary/discontinued" category in these cases would have a "freeing" effect ...

zts wrote: ↑I can't find "Category:Discontinued", maybe it's under some other name.

I meant the parameter under that name in the infobox.

But, I proposed the new category because:
- "Contemporary" is defined (under keyboards) in this wiki as, "This is a list of keyboard models that should be available new in retail or online, and not just on the second-hand market."; and
- "Vintage" is defined (under companies) in this wiki as, "Vintage input device related brands and companies. Note that vintage in this context means no longer in existence, as opposed to old companies which are still in existence (such as IBM)."

Maybe not specifying the "vintage/contemporary/discontinued" category in these cases would have a "freeing" effect ...

Heh, I hadn't even noticed we had that distinction for companies... Anyway, the "vintage keyboards" category doesn't bear an specific description, so I'd still vote for placing there those keyboards that were discontinued 20+ years ago or something like that. Anything with a PS/2 interface is a likely candidate to qualify as vintage in my book.

I don't think it is a major problem if a keyboard ends up being labeled under the "wrong" category in this case, either.

^ I'd rather go with the 5-pin DIN as a sign of a keyboard belonging to the "vintage" class. PS/2 keyboards are still sold (and I guess made) ... Amazon is full of them even for the Prime sales. I guess some or many gamers would use them (judging by many brand new gaming rigs come with PS/2 ports in addition to USB) and I know accountants use them in corporate environments for security reasons ... also some "brand new" ergonomic KBs with integrated touchpads still come with PS/2 with some USB adapters. It's definitively a legacy port, but maybe not a vintage ... yet

I see it as two seperate axes:

Contemporary vs. Vintage is more of a design and feature gestalt.
In production/No longer made but readily stocked/resale only (with occasional scarce NOS) summarizes availability.
For example:
Unicomp Customizer 101 PS/2: Vintage, In production
Matias Tactile Pro 4: Current, In production
Some Cherry G80-8133H* models: Vintage, No longer made but readily stocked
Some Ducky 9000 models: Contemporary, No longer made but readily stocked
Focus 2001: Vintage, resale only
ABS M1: Contemporary, resale only

To my mind, items are "vintage" if and only if you can ascribe a period to them that has gone by long ago (say, 15 years at least). If a keyboard model still is "in production", it can only be considered vintage if an uninformed person would think it was from that period. Regarding details like the ps/2 connector, the question is not whether new boards still have it but whether boards of the given vintage period already had it; it only matters that the presence of that feature does not contradict the assignment of the model to the period of the overall impression. The ps/2 connector appeared in the late 1980s. If you consider that a vintage period, boards from that period and boards that look and feel as if they were from that period (and not contemporary) can be considered vintage even though they feature a connector that is also used by some contemporary boards.

Agree with Hak Foo

Regarding classification, I think age is the easiest way to separate keyboards. If you start trying to do it by features (especially interface method) then you would quickly have issues with modern keyboards that use PS/2 connectors and stuff. I'd suggest copying something like what they do with cars:

A classic car is an older automobile; the exact definition varies around the world. The common theme is of an older car with enough historical interest to be collectable and worth preserving or restoring rather than scrapping. The Classic Car Club of America maintains that a car must be between 30 and 49 years old to be a classic, while cars between 50 and 99 fall into a pre-antique class, and cars 100 years and older fall into the Antique Class. In the UK, 'classic cars' range from veteran (pre–First World War), to vintage (1919–1930), to post-vintage (1930s). Post–Second World War classic cars are not so precisely defined.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_car