deskthority

See the linked PDF. I think the Topre-style 103-key layout is pretty neat, although the option to have two Win keys would be good. The new 104-key is pretty horrible. I can assume that in both cases the changes were made to cut down on the number of different sizes of keycaps they had to make.

http://pckeyboard.com/mm5/graphics/Prod ... -25-13.pdf

Also, notice the printing alignment of the number row on the keyboard in the first picture. Ouch...

Whenever Unicomp says "Spacesaver" I can't help but think: Unicomp SSK at last! But it's just their odd name for the Mac legend version of their resolutely fullsize keyboard. Oh well.

Can't say I like Unicomp's legends anyway. Do they sell a keyboard in blanks?

Like the "New Classic 103" including the Windows key. Will most probably buy one and swap the new casing out for the older, heavier (better quality) casing.

Good one Unicomp, but when is the SSK coming out?

That explains why almost everything has been out of stock for the last few months.

Muirium wrote:Can't say I like Unicomp's legends anyway. Do they sell a keyboard in blanks?

http://pckeyboard.com/page/Buttons/KSET

they should stop messing with winkeys and start developing a real SSK!

PS: the 104 keys version is horrible

Thanks!

Quite right about the blazingly obvious beed for a Unicomp SSK. Do they have any idea about the demand?

Their current fiddling is good news in that it proves they're not scared to change the layout. But what we want is not mere tweaks, but an axe to everything right of the arrow cluster! Make it and we will come. Unicomp's potential best seller…

I'll take mine in blanks!

wondering if there are some licensing issues, or if it's really a small niche... or they are just lazy

The global market for buckling spring is a niche, served by Unicomp alone. They surely don't sound like a big company! If demand was any busier, clones would show up in China. Perhaps there are some for all I know. But if so they're super obscure.

So I'd say the second hand market for Unicomp's IBM and Lexmark predecessors is relevant. And we all know that SSKs command a premium there. Not just from collectors, but from those of us who want to use them as our main keyboards too. I'd buy a Unicomp SSK in a heartbeat: and get a "new in box" with manufacturer's warranty! They could sell it for a fair bit more than their current range quite easily.

I think production is the hard part for Unicomp. They need to invest in new tooling to make SSKs or any other substantial change to what they've always done. Hopefully they know the money is there for when they do! These recent layout tweaks are a sign that someone's thinking about making changes, albeit it small ones. For now…

I really hope it isn't an IP licensing issue. That's the one thing that could kill it.

Anyone know what similar tweaks Unicomp has made in the past? And better yet: anyone in the company fancy joining the forum?

Unicomp did have the internal capacity to make an 85-key model M as late as November 2004. http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cf ... /id/183757

From my discussions with them and from other anecdotal online reports, they had alot of old keyboard parts and some machinery when they moved out of the old Lexmark production factory to their current smaller facility http://goo.gl/maps/grKMK

It is unclear if they have the specialized machinery and other plastic molds on-hand for the SSK internal and external keyboard design and it would take "tens of thousands of dollars" just to have a third-party machinist produce new tooling.

In addition, the electrical engineering and design of the traditional keyboard controller of the SSK is much different than the one used in Unicomp's current 42H1292-style keyboard where the controller and LEDs are combined in the upper right corner of the keyboard near the numpad keys http://www.clickeykeyboards.com/model-m ... 1987-1999/.

The big question remains.. Is the small-format buckling spring keyboard market only 100 people or 1000 people per year or is it as large as 10,000 people and is it worth the investment risk in a market where people do not value "premium keyboards" and fight for the lowest common denominator that comes for free with every PC purchase.

Perhaps if someone coordinated with them and started a campaign on http://www.kickstarter.com/ whereby real people sign up and commit money to back a worthwhile project. Others have tried to reach out to the CEO and others at Unicomp, but I understand and respect that every business has their own priorities and their own bottom-line economics that they need to watch to support their investments and most importantly the employees.

There are no costs to dreaming of something, or expressing an online opinion, or making a rendering in Photoshop. But there are real-world costs and expenses to actually design, build, UL certify, mass produce and market a new item. If I ever win a multi-million dollar lottery, one of my first investments would be to write a check to invest in an American factory like Unicomp who is providing good jobs and great keyboards. If I were given the opportunity to visit Lexington, Kentucky I would share my personal observations and informed ideas on why the IBM model M keyboard was so important. I would hope that Unicomp would allow me to take some documentary photos on "how its made" to share with the world.

To those that might have missed this insightful NPR radio story from 2009. It details some of the historical context of what it is to be an American niche manufacturer in a global marketplace http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =100076874

clickykeyboards wrote:Unicomp did have the internal capacity to make an 85-key model M as late as November 2004. http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cf ... /id/183757[/url]

http://deskthority.net/post26988.html#p26988

They had it and let it go? Oh well, that's a bullet in the head for my hope that they're exploring in that direction.

Clicky, I get where you're coming from. I respect Unicomp for keeping the M in production long after IBM / Lexmark abandoned it. No one managed to step in and do the same at Greenock, over here. But I can't help think this is a failure of theirs to understand their core market. Enthusiasts buy Unicomp keyboards, not corporate bean counters. Those guys left to rubber dome as fast as their feet could carry them, decades ago.

SSKs command such a premium because of demand. And it's not as if Filco and the rest haven't been making smaller keyboards the last few years. I fear for Unicomp, because they're selling a remarkably fixed piece of nostalgia. We're a broader market than that.

I doubt that those 85-key SSKs were made from scratch. Rather, they probably had a batch of leftover ISO-layout SSKs for the European market (has anyone ever seen an IBM-branded SSK in a European layout out in the wild? I sure as hell haven't...) and made a US ISO layout so that they could sell them to US customers.

Why the hell have they swapped the right Win and AltGr?

I use AltGr with my thumb a lot, and I can get quite confused when it is not under the period (.) key.

I suspect that this change is just to save costs on membranes. Now they will only need to make a single set of membranes for 101, 103, 104 and possibly for ISO also (they still do ISO, don't they? ...).

ISO has always shared quite a lot (membranes and top plates) with ANSI on the Model M. It's simply changing where stabilizer inserts vs. spring/hammers are, and what keycaps are used.

I concur that it's to save costs on membranes and top plates.

Also, I think the 122-key terminal boards are actually their bread and butter - read between the lines in this article: http://bizlex.com/2012/07/keyed-in-unic ... ght-touch/

I think they make most of their money off of keyboards either for terminals, or being used with terminal emulators (hence the PC 122).

Therefore, Unicomp's biggest fears would be either web front ends to mainframe and AS/400 applications (reduces the market for terminal emulation, and therefore their 122s), or replacing mainframe/AS/400 applications with Linux-based applications (where a 104-key rubber dome will work adequately).

I really doubt that companies are just ordering Unicomp boards for ordinary Windows-based office workers, it's almost certainly for specific applications that need something other than a cheap 104 dome.

Having just read the article, I didn't get that impression. Sounds like they're selling based on durability and familiarity, with a recent emphasis on speed. I strongly expect the majority of their business comes from inside the US, the corporate US by the sound of it. The article says they aim at the type of customers that run full cost analyses of their purchases. They're a B2B outfit.

Pity. We're out here too, spending more than is sensible on used SSKs!

Muirium wrote: Pity. We're out here too, spending more than is sensible on used SSKs!

'Sensible', compared to.. ??
If you look at the price of a SSK, when it was new, and factor in inflation ..
I'm surprised they haven't ALL been 'recycled' !
How much does 20 years storage cost ?
Or should someone just pick up the tab, because we like vintage keyboards,
at a price resembling theft ??

EDIT :
To put things in perspective :
You can buy a NIB Unicomp Model M for 79USD pp !
Compared to the original 1980's price of more than 200USD !!
Frankly, we should all be ashamed for bitching about the SSK-pricing !

Oh hi Peter!

My comparison is the premium used and NIB SSKs have over their full sized Model M counterparts. My assumption is that a similar differential demand exists for brand new ones, if Unicomp was to indulge us and take our money.

Of course an SSK is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. But supply also affects that equation.

No matter how you try to spin it ..
A Unicomp M is not a original IBM M !
Neither is a Unicomp-SSK a original IBM SSK !!
(This is also why it doesn't matter that somebody in Germany may, or may NOT,
be able to manufacture 'Original Cherry key-caps' ! Dye-sub or not !)

Don't get me wrong, I would also love to get a SSK for nothing -
(Not to mention thick dye-sub Cherry-caps, made on the original tooling !)
But I don't feel entitled to taking some poor sods keyboard for a price comparable to FREE !
Likewise, I think Unicomp are uber-cool for even bothering to do what they do !!
If the price for keeping buckling-spring keyboards available is NO SSK ...
I can accept that, reluctantly !

BTW Mu ..
Have you had a look @ those old Cherry-manuals ?
Even back ion the 1980's somebody was thinking :
We can do that, better AND CHEAPER !
It's a bit like the keyboard-version of Moores Law :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law

I'll give them a good gander over coffee. This is not a subject to be rushed! Cherry's product matrix always makes my head spin.

I fear for Unicomp as well. I have done some business with them and they are the nicest folks in the world to deal with. I am very happy that they have carried on and kept the clicky keyboard alive.

<rant>
My fear lies with whoever they have in charge of quality control. I'm sorry, but whoever is in charge of QA there should be fired. The quality of their keyboards has gone downhill steadily over time. Currently they are making a transition to making their key caps in-house, with disastrous results. That top keyboard in the PDF is an example of this. It's like they don't know what a straight line is. I mean come on! The keys are obviously not right, and it's like they don't care or something. It's embarrassing. I don't mean to come off mean, it's just I don't want to see these guys go out of business but they are going to if they don't produce something that looks like a quality product. I'm sorry but that looks worse than a bad Chinese knock-off. I recently purchased some custom printed keys from them and the text was all over the place, blurry and just looked bad. I didn't ask for my money back just because I felt bad for them. I hope they get somebody in there that can shake things up. I'd love to see those guys be an equal-player to Cherry and Topre.
</rant>

Getting cheap on caps is just the sort of move that will have no negative effect on the cost analysis brigade they consider (accurately?) their bread and butter. A very bad sign for any turnaround where they look at Topre and get the right idea how to make high end keyboards.

Mind, even Topre's legends are a weak spot. But they're not bad through cost saving. They're just in need of some IBM style consistency in design.

Their custom printing method is quite poor. Series production caps work better, but...

I really think Unicomp should move to lasering - lower consumable costs most likely than their series production method, and able to make frickin' white legends, and the costs to do qty 1 are the same as the costs to do qty 1 million, with the same quality.

Hi All..

I have a Model M '93, Part #P52G9700

I recently spilled coffee on it after all this time!!! I'm pretty sure this keyboard came with my dad's 286 back in the day and I've made sure to keep my hands on it since then.. I've been using it on and off for at least 15 years now.

Well, at first the coffee made it unusable, it was registering wrong keystrokes etc.. I blew the thing out with air, and let it sit upside down for a couple days. It's working again but a couple of the keys are a little sticky now.. which bugs the hell out of me.

SO, I have been searching and saw the Unicomps, and was actually thinking to wait for the 103 version. I like how they put the special keys in between the spots of the original 101 layout to match it, cool.

Are these Unicomps comparable to the real things?? My understanding is that they're the same.. but I'd like to know for sure before waiting for one. Close != same. Also, is there more I can do to clean this original M out to get rid of some of the stickyness?

THANKS!

You don't get the twang sound from a Unicomp :/

But you do still get the central clicky goodness. Twang relief might be to your liking! My Model F is intense!

Unicomp caps aren't quite as nice as IBM dyesubs, but you can swap most of them with your old ones. Otherwise, the Unicomp has it all: built in USB, Windows keys, fresh springs, no need to clean the decades out of it…

Speaking of which, there's a lot of places for sticky residue to hide inside a Model M. I'd imagine a full tear down is required. Nothing impossible but quite involved. I'm up to the same myself sometime with a 122 key version with many dead keys.

Muirium wrote:Unicomp caps aren't quite as nice as IBM dyesubs, but you can swap most of them with your old ones. Otherwise, the Unicomp has it all: built in USB, Windows keys, fresh springs, no need to clean the decades out of it…

Exactly. I will buy the Newer model range when they're released because I want to try the latest gear from an American Manufacturer.

Just will swap the keys out for that semi-decent upgrade, to their latest keyboard.

When daedalus mentioned the function row at the top in the new Unicomps, I opened the pdf again and zoomed in...
Eeeeeeeh! The printing was so off-centered!
I was fearing this would happen because I once had a defective F10 keycap (didn't click right) with my pre-weird layout 104 and when I emailed Unicomp customer service they sent me a new one. The actual keycap was good (you know, the part that actually contacts the springs) but I noticed that the F10 was a bit higher up on the cover keycap (you know, the part you touch when you depress a key) than the others.. Fortunately I kept the old one so I swapped out the old cover keycap with the new weird one...

(Just visited www.pckeyboard.com and found that in order to not have the new weird 104 layout and have the OK 103, you need to pay an extra $10 to "convert" it to 103... WHUT!! 103 should be part of the lineup, not a custom keyboard...)