HHKB Pro 2

[cookie]

I am still a little bit upset and I ask myself "Is it neccessary to open up such an expensive board, lube all the springs to eliminate the spring noise?

I will the 100% "THOK" on all switches all the time god dammit!

[Muirium]

I've never had such trouble with buckling springs. All I'm saying.

(Mind, I only got my Model F a week or two before you got your HHKB. Did use Ms a bit back in the day, without knowing what they were, so “decades of experience”, see…)

[cookie]

I don't think you can compare a BS keyboard with Topre. Or did I misundersood you?
If you pay that price, you expect perfection and the KB at the current stat is simply not "Perfect", I had to buy aftermarked feet to stop it from slipping around and now the spring noise.

[Muirium]

Just kidding. Buckling springs can have all sorts of issues, too. I just find it irresistible to compare your brand new HHKB, a great little keyboard, with my brand new (to me) Model F, a great not-so-little keyboard, manufactured in 1985 and still working fine. We both got them just recently, and 002's Realforce is being compared against them in turn: opponents big and small!

But don't underestimate how much buckling spring costs these days, the moment you want TKL. Yikes.

[Jmneuv]

Curious if you find any spring sound on the RF.. that was something i didn't watch out for. I noticed the stab ting, that was all.

[cookie]

Yes spring vibration sound is noticable too, on some keys more on some less...
What I definately don't like is the variable weighting on this thing, the 45g switches feel okay the 35 and less feel verry mushy to me. My HHKB definately "THOKS" nicer! I'd like to try a 55g Topre for more "THOK"

What is definately noticable on the RF is that the larger keys definately need some grease on the stabilizers, they rattle a lot, this is something I don't like that much, I wan't a nice and soft "THOK" everywhere!

What else after an everning of typing on the RF? The caps are KILLER! I mean I always thought that the contrast on Dyesub caps would not be that sharp as on DS kaps but the caps are verry nice!

I will never ever go back on ABS caps, no matter how cool they are!

I still have misgivings that the dome will get mushy over time, maybe the domes are made of super crazy NASA rubber wich will stay like it is for ages but they seem to soften out!

[Muirium]

55g Topre: a forum favourite.

I wouldn't worry about the rubber ageing, Cookie. 002 has an enviable collection of Topre's finest, and if he says they stand up after many years, I believe it. What you've felt with your HHKB is the breaking in period. Literally brand new components need a little wear to slip truly into place. Once that's done, it's plain sailing for years to come. (Unless you really did get a bad one…)

So you and Matteo both like Cherry's lightest weight (reds and blues) but prefer your Topre heavy? Interesting. Wonder what a spring buckler like me should look for? 100g Topre!

[cookie]

You are probably right, but on the other side, the RF feels noticable different then my HHKB, that is the reason I believe that the Rubber will change over time. Woul'd be soo glad If this doesn't happen but I still believe in this. As I said, the HHKB Thoks nicer and feels more crisp but not all keys thoc the same, I already have some sweet spots on the KB, keys wich perform and feel exeptionally well! Some other keys feel like cheapo rubberdome :/

[Muirium]

And you liked it best straight out of the box? Before any breaking in?

As for the caps, I prefer the HHKB's for their smarter looking legends (not that you can tell with blanks!) and the freedom from the tyranny of the Windows bubble key.

[002]

Man wtf - another one who prefers the HHKB over the Realforce in feel...

Spoiler:

[cookie]

And you liked it best straight out of the box? Before any breaking in?

As for the caps, I prefer the HHKB's for their smarter looking legends (not that you can tell with blanks!) and the freedom from the tyranny of the Windows bubble key.

Jeah I liked it straight out of the box, maybe the feel didn't changed at all but I got used to it and found something I don't like? Maybe the feel actually changed a little bit and I am verry picky? And yes I am picky... when a keyboard cost's me 250 bugs I am picky as HELL!

Man wtf - another one who prefers the HHKB over the Realforce in feel...

Spoiler:

Hahaha no don't get me wrong, I spendet one evening on the RF, give me a few more days, but the first impression is that I like the feel of my HHKB a lot more then the RF

[cookie]

Hey there,
After a couple of month I finally got used to the HHKB layout, the arrow cluster and the ansi layout.
I use this little beauty at home and at work (carry it with me every day). The spring rattle is gone on most of the switches or I am not that sensitive to it anymore. I accidently press pageup/down instead of home/end because of the positioning. I still believe that the arrow cluster could be better but I got used to it.

I owned different kinds of keyboards, bought stuff over ebay and sold it after a while. Meanwhile I tryed all kinds of Cherry switches. I had Vintage and new Keyboards, every time I have the oprortunity to try differend keyboards I do so... The Realforce Europe Tour was great. I will not say that I am the No.1 Keyboard Expert but what I can say is that the HHKB is just overall verry strong. I woul'd go so far to say it is one of the best if not the best keyboard what money can buy when it comes down to design, feel, quality and ergonomy! The quality is just great, light but not flimsy. Best Caps on the market, period! Unfortunately the spacebar started to shine but on a white KB it is not so obvious than on a black one.

The keyboard search is somehow over for me, I lost interest in Cherry boards, only 60% could be potentially interesting for me.

TL DR;
Bought HHKB, never looked back!

[Hypersphere]

Dang! I wish I would stop seeing rave reviews of the HHKB Pro 2! Looks like I will just have to try it for myself before ruling it out on theoretical and financial grounds. Maybe I can convince my wife that it is less expensive than the two-seater sports car I've always wanted (although the aggregated cost of my overall keyboard habit is in danger of creeping into the sports car league of expense).

On the other hand, because I know how to drive my sedan, it would not be much of an adjustment to drive a sports car. However, the HHKB analogue of a sports car would have the accelerator pedal exchanged for the brake, and the steering wheel replaced by four buttons on the center console activated by a lever where the windshield washer control should be.

[ne0phyte]

The difference is: the HHKB layout makes sense while having four buttons instead of a steering wheel would be plain stupid

[Hypersphere]

The difference is: the HHKB layout makes sense while having four buttons instead of a steering wheel would be plain stupid

You're right! A very poor analogy.

[cookie]

I still say that the position of home/end is shit... but I got used to it!

[Muirium]

Clearly, along with its legendary price, the HHKB's biggest negative is its tiny layout. Losing dedicated arrow keys throws a lot of people out of shape. For some of us, that design decision is the HHKB's greatest strength, especially the way it tackles the problem compared to other 60%s. But it's a leap, that's for sure.

I'd like to know how the HHKB compares, purely based on layout, to other 60s like the Poker. I expect that's RJ's big question too, and his prime motive for wanting to try one. A TKL Realforce could definitely make me happy but I suspect my ideal Topre is the HHKB. Or perhaps the fantasy of a Pro 2 with the HHKB JP's spacebar and extra mods, but without all the other changes above the bottom row.

[Hypersphere]

If RF would build a 60% board with the same standard layout as the Poker II, 55-gram Topre switches, dye-sub PBT keycaps of the quality found on the white/gray RF 87u or HHKB Pro 2, and user-selectable location of the Fn-layer arrow cluster, I would buy it in a New York keystroke.

[cookie]

If I someday have the chance to get my hands on another 60% i'd definately write my thoughts here... Positioning of the Arrow cluster is verry awkward tbh It simply doesn't feels narural. But as I said, once you get used to it,you cann work with it quite well. Smart move to put the arrow cluster on the right hand so you can pull off the wildest eclipse shortkeys!

For me still one of the best Keyboards on market, and another great thing is that I can plugg my mouse directly in my KB, that is very nice if you shorten the cable... I am not done with my final setup yet but pictures will follow!

[Hypersphere]

Finally got the HHKB Pro 2 and love it! I should not have resisted so long, although if I had not done so, I might not have believed that the HHKB Pro 2 is superior to all the others. The only one remaining to try is a 55=gram Topre; it is unfortunate that this is only available as a RF 87u, which is so plain-vanilla. If you are interested, here is a link to my review:
http://deskthority.net/news-reviews-f4/ ... t6553.html

[kfmfe04]

I just got my blank white hhkb hooked up to my MacBook Pro.

The arrow keys actually don't bother me because I don't use them.

I use KeyRemap4MacBook with the Complete Vi Mode turned on and the Holding "v" to toggle modes ticked off.

So whenever I need arrow keys, I hold down "v" to get into Vi Mode and then move around with hjkl

[coredumb]

Finally got the HHKB Pro 2 and love it! I should not have resisted so long, although if I had not done so, I might not have believed that the HHKB Pro 2 is superior to all the others. The only one remaining to try is a 55=gram Topre; it is unfortunate that this is only available as a RF 87u, which is so plain-vanilla. If you are interested, here is a link to my review:
http://deskthority.net/news-reviews-f4/ ... t6553.html

Funny, i started my journey in mechanical keyboards with the HHKB Pro 2, and i start now to move away from it for MX switches...
While having a very good build quality and Topre being a nice switch, If i compare it to my Ducky G2Pro black mamba in all objectivity - The quality feeling, the sturdiness, the overall feeling and typing experience - really the Ducky wins... This HHKB "superiority" starts to feel a bit overrated (2 years as my main keyboard)

My 2 cents

[kfmfe04]

Funny, i started my journey in mechanical keyboards with the HHKB Pro 2, and i start now to move away from it for MX switches...
While having a very good build quality and Topre being a nice switch, If i compare it to my Ducky G2Pro black mamba in all objectivity - The quality feeling, the sturdiness, the overall feeling and typing experience - really the Ducky wins... This HHKB "superiority" starts to feel a bit overrated (2 years as my main keyboard)

I agree with you a bit here - my main is a Filco TKL (MX Reds) with Doubleshot Sphericals and the thing is built like a tank. If you ever have a chance to try it out, Filco is one more notch over the Ducky.

Years ago, I had happened upon the hhkb in Akihabara by accident and I couldn't understand why it was so expensive. I finally bought the pro 2 a couple days ago. I loved the size/weight for portability and the touch was okay, but felt really sloppy compared to the Filco. Then I realized that because it was so light, I was often typing on my lap. After switching to the table, I'm beginning to like the feel more and more. I think there's going to be a break-in period for this board. That detachable mini-B USB out the back worries me, though. (Because I only have two mechanicals for a bunch of machines (including a laptop), I disconnect my boards quite often.) One day, if Hasu on GeekHack figures out how to swap out the controller for a WIFI/programmable module, the hhkb would be perfect.

Over time, I think I will like the hhkb in a different way from the Filco. Filco is quality hands-down, but hhkb feels more fun to type on. It's like comparing a beautiful girl with a pretty one - how can one pick?

[coredumb]

You pick the brunette indeed!
While the HHKB layout is brilliant the fact that it's ansi only - painful on ISO keymap - and lacks customization makes it pretty boring (At least for me) in the long run...

[Muirium]

Yes. These things are all down to taste. There's a lot of well built MX based keyboards out there so the comparison isn't completely night and day. You either like one switch or the other.

[Elrick]

Funny, i started my journey in mechanical keyboards with the HHKB Pro 2, and i start now to move away from it for MX switches...
While having a very good build quality and Topre being a nice switch, If i compare it to my Ducky G2Pro black mamba in all objectivity - The quality feeling, the sturdiness, the overall feeling and typing experience - really the Ducky wins... This HHKB "superiority" starts to feel a bit overrated (2 years as my main keyboard)

My 2 cents

Amazing to hear that because some loons at Geekhack seem to keep highlighting how superior they are to every other person owning a similar keyboard, on this planet.

I won't name who they are but this place at least seems to be less attractive to 'those' sort of people .

[Muirium]

I put it all down to the sigs and humongous avatars. People just behave themselves better over here, for whatever actual reason. Maybe it's the ducks…

[matt3o]

After a while I'm typing on Topre and I switch to MX Blue I find the latter so much better. So I start using MX Blue for a while... then switch to Topre and they feel so much better than mx blue and so I start using the topre again... and so on and so forth.

[Muirium]

The golden rule of ergonomics: mix it up. A change is better than a rest. And so we all need more keyboards!

[Elrick]

The golden rule of ergonomics: mix it up. A change is better than a rest. And so we all need more keyboards!

The 'Golden Epitaph' for my head stone .