deskthority

Well, here it is, enjoy!

The tactility along with the sound is what makes up the Topre "magic" IMO. I might get killed for this but I still agrue that the (in my opinion) higher build quality of the Realforce and FC660C makes a positive difference in overall feel. And yes all these Topre keyboards are of course insanely overpriced.

After this review expect the HHKB2 fanbase to hate you now!

In a way, he is, but actually, he isn't ... and the review does smell a little of "sour grapes"

Laser wrote: ↑...and the review does smell a little of "sour grapes"

No I think Chyros is being quite honest. Good review. Typed on my Realforce 86U BTW!

You can actually get a HHKB in JIS layout, which is somewhat more like ISO:



You'd probably like this one a bit more since the bottom row is a bit less "wasteful"!

Thanks again for another thoughtful review. With the reliance on layers inherent in a 60% board, being picky about a layout is clearly justified—there’s a heightened importance on efficiency. And while anyone approaching the HHKB cold, myself included, struggles for the first few hours or days, a time investment for most people yields not only a functional layout but a much improved one.

Being critical of the formatting choices and offering a redesign of this board is sort of counter to it’s purpose. It’s layout is novel enough to either accept it or reject it. But it’s not an experimental or haphazard layout designed by Joe Sixpack custom dude seeking narrow functionality. Again it’s entirely understandable for someone to despise the layout, but offering to correct it by moving this and that undermines the whole premise of the board—efficiency of size and function.

Your rubber dome board comparison must be fantastic if you believe, and could convince others, it’s 80% as good as an HHKB—there’s a market to be made selling them at a nice mark-up as an also-ran HHKB. But I don’t think it would get traction on being “almost as good.” The compelling difference in price would probably be the attraction.

I’m biased having spent the money for an HHKB and silencing rings. But a lot of HHKB users are not dogmatic fanboys. They realize the board's short comings (spacebar that needs futzing and tuning, price, lack of key sets).

I love my Apple M0116 and AEK boards. I think I could work happily forever on a few 30-year-old M0116 boards—which by the way have a layout similar to the HHKB with the Control key left of the A key and the Delete key directly above the Enter (albeit an ISO Enter). We’d probably find common ground in Alps admiration (judging by your other reviews). Again thanks for the review.

Thank you for the review - I love watching all your videos!

I know you'll catch some heat for comparing this to other rubber domes but I'm right there with you; I've typed on much more enjoyable domes than Topre. Part of my beef is the key throw distance is too long! You can cry 'made in Japan uber rare capacitives!' all day long - I still type faster and much more accurately on scissor switches. I guess the question I'm having as a 130+ wpm typist: what is all that key travel distance supposed to be buying me?

Another issue with the HHKB it's so focused on keeping your fingers on the home row and yet it feels odd and against its mission to put the function key where it's at. I wish they adopted the space bar as the function key instead so you can keep your hands right where they belong.

They do get kudos for Control key placement.

Feels and sounds good, but the layout isn't there is pretty much my opinion as well.

Also, Mac user?! You'll pay for that!!

I don't think the layout's perfect, but it's almost there for me. Ever since getting the programmable controller from Hasu it's been even better for me now that I've been able to add media shortcuts etc. to it and remove that stupid power button placement (fn+esc, ARGH!). I've added a few bits here and there, but the physical layout is great for me. Then again, I don't have a strong allegiance to either ISO or ANSI physical layouts, so that probably helps!

Thanks guys, glad you enjoyed it . In every video, including this one, I want to be as unbiased as I can and just say exactly what I genuinely think of it. The fact I DIDN'T pay for it helps out here I think xD and there's definitely no sour grapes, I definitely enjoyed my time using it even if it was fiddly .

I'm not sure why the HHKB community would be after me really, as I think I gave it a very positive review, really xD . However, there is no denying that it's rubber dome - whether they like it or not xD . Similarly the markup on the price is clearly ridiculous, no denying that as far as I'm concerned .

I really don't want to sell BTCs xD . However, they really are pretty good, if you can get hold of one for cheap and don't mind rubber I'd recommend them for sure .


PS sorry Tom, I thought the DIP switches were set to Mac xD .

Chyros wrote: ↑I really don't want to sell BTCs xD . However, they really are pretty good, if you can get hold of one for cheap and don't mind rubber I'd recommend them for sure .

This guy compared his Topre Typeheaven to BTC domes so you're not alone:
Right around 10min 30 sec he goes into the BTC.

courtesi wrote: ↑

Chyros wrote: ↑I really don't want to sell BTCs xD . However, they really are pretty good, if you can get hold of one for cheap and don't mind rubber I'd recommend them for sure .

This guy compared his Topre Typeheaven to BTC domes so you're not alone:

Right around 10min 30 sec he goes into the BTC.

Oh wow, that's amazing, he even uses the exact same model xD . And those PB white-panel ones aren't even the most common 5140s either (most aren't PB and have a black droplet-effect back panel), what a coincidence xD .

Well, at least I'm not alone then .

BTW, I don't actually agree with him about the mushiness. They're not mushy, but it's not like hitting a metal plate either, and that will be mentioned in a video way down the line....

Just wait until Muirium sees this review...

stratokaster wrote: ↑Just wait until Muirium sees this review...

Incoming "ach mon, dinnae talk pish"? XD

scottc wrote: ↑You can actually get a HHKB in JIS layout, which is somewhat more like ISO:



You'd probably like this one a bit more since the bottom row is a bit less "wasteful"!

That's the reason I bought the one that appeared here a couple of months ago. I couldn't work with a standard HHBK.

On bot row I've got "Ctrl Win Win Alt CustomMod1 Space CustomMod2 Enter Alt", and I can't work without these right now. The funny part is that I am not using Fn at all, even F1-F12, cursors, etc are mapped through my CustomMod2 key instead.

Having Windows key repeated is something I don't like but I can not avoid that, there is one extra key on left side that should not be there.

Why on Earth would one get an HHKB and want to avoid using the HHKB layout? O_o

You know what they say about choosing the right tools for the job?

HHKB Pro is truly a status symbol in the first place...

davkol wrote: ↑Why on Earth would one get an HHKB and want to avoid using the HHKB layout? O_o

I came from a TKL JIS Realforce. Moving to HHKB (which had to be JIS of course) allows me to get rid of the middle keyboard columd (easier to move to the pointer device), and forced me to seriously use cursor/pgup/pgdown/insert/Fxx...etc without losing the f/j keys reference (it is very annoying to lose the reference when touch typing). It took some time but now that I start to feel comfortable this way I go faster using a keyboard.

It could be still better in my case, for example it has one extra key on the left side and my best bet was to duplicate the Windows key (having an extra key still confuses me sometimes). Moreover I don't use up cursor key at all, never (neither HHKB function key or left cursor), so right shift key could be two units wide instead of a single unit. I already got used to this and I don't care anymore two months later but it could have been easier for me to adapt to this keyboard the other way. Of course these things are minor and I am quite happy with this keyboard.

davkol wrote: ↑You know what they say about choosing the right tools for the job?

Sure, and I have slowly but firmly found the right tool for the job with this one (or so do I think nowadays, you know how this keyboard world is). Next step to arrive to perfection should be something custom, but I don't have the time for that and I do not wish to move to Cherry MX neither.

Now you made me think about all this, and I just realized that during these last two years I found the switch (Topre), later I found the layout (JIS), and hell, did I find the form factor?? So, is this the end? I hope it's not.

davkol wrote: ↑HHKB Pro is truly a status symbol in the first place...

In my case it is just one more keyboard to my friends and folks at my job (I do carry it daily as I also did with the Realforce for months), and if their eyes rolled with a TKL they just can't understand this one. To my people it is more a madness indicator than anything. I wouldn't mind Topre boards to lose their status meaning if that meant their prices dropped also.

Mu seems curiously absent from this discussion, hope I haven't offended him xD .

Chyros wrote: ↑ PS sorry Tom, I thought the DIP switches were set to Mac xD .

No worries, they may have been to be honest...there was something I was trying to get working that would only work on Mac mode for some reason. It's been so long since I set it up I can't remember what it was though .

And Mu might be travelling, I'm sure he'll chime in when he sees this .

The first time i tried topre i was quite meh about them, sure they are nice but nothing amazing, i think the variable weight of the realforce and its crappy space bar put me off but it was worth giving them another go i love my novatouch even if the return sound is terrible and needs to be fixed.

The best thing about topre is the smoothness , feel of bottoming out and the sound. The problems are a lack of custom caps and the form factor.

I do agree they are overpriced and you are paying for the name but is that not the same with any high end product , yes they are better but the cost never usually justifies it.

The CM novatouch has 2 of the 3 down and with some custom dampening rings you are good to go .

I do want to give some BTC domes with sliders a go, if they are as close to topre as you say its a good way to give the idea a try without a big fat wad of cash.

EDIT if you are willing i have some keyboards you may want to review / loan for a week or two, they are not suitable for a open plan office however

Yeah sure, I'm always open to suggestions .

Chyros wrote: ↑Mu seems curiously absent from this discussion, hope I haven't offended him xD .

You have to go and post this when I'm flying home. Such juicy flamebait! I'll have a thing or two to say about it when I can.

Muirium wrote: ↑

Chyros wrote: ↑Mu seems curiously absent from this discussion, hope I haven't offended him xD .

You have to go and post this when I'm flying home. Such juicy flamebait! I'll have a thing or two to say about it when I can.

I knew this was coming sooner or later. HHKB blasphemy Chyros. Stand accused.

Short version:



Long version when I'm on my HHKB. I'm stuck in a connecting airport and on my bare laptop, like an animal!

Muirium wrote: ↑Short version:



Long version when I'm on my HHKB. I'm stuck in a connecting airport and on my bare laptop, like an animal!

HAHAHAHA LOL

I told you this was serious Chyros. Not only did you "diss"respect the entire HHKB world but you compared it to tactile green Alps but even worse to BTC dome with slider.

Well, you know, the approach reminded me of "I don't get it why these people keep buying wine, when apple juice and coke is 80% as good as wine, and ten times cheaper"

Also: fresh piss…

Noo-body expects the Scottish Disquisition!