deskthority

Something a little different this time; a video on how to linear-mod an AT101W to make a great linear mechanical gaming keyboard, and cheaply too. Hope you enjoy the video!

derp

davkol wrote: Ummm, isn't the Bigfoot just the AT101-2 made by Alps Electric, not Silitek (i.e., AT101W/AT102W)? Or is there any Alps Bigfoot with winkeys?

All Dell AT101s are generally referred to as "Dell Bigfoot". The actual Alps-made versions, which includes the SGI, are often called "Alps Bigfoot". All the ones shown in this video, including the old-logo one, are Silitek-made, by the way.

I always wondered why Matias linear switches use a leaf, imo. removing them doesn't hurt the switch at all.
Removing the spring from blacks is a great idea and since I don't like or recommend any of the standard Cherry switches, it's probably a great and cheap way to get started with mechanical keyboards. Sadly most people who are looking for a gamer keyboard would probably never settle for a Dell AT10X, since there aren't enough LEDs on this keyboard.

On another note I like your reviews a lot and really enjoy watching them. Keep up the good work!

Sankart wrote: I always wondered why Matias linear switches use a leaf, imo. removing them doesn't hurt the switch at all.
Removing the spring from blacks is a great idea and since I don't like or recommend any of the standard Cherry switches, it's probably a great and cheap way to get started with mechanical keyboards. Sadly most people who are looking for a gamer keyboard would probably never settle for a Dell AT10X, since there aren't enough LEDs on this keyboard.

On another note I like your reviews a lot and really enjoy watching them. Keep up the good work!

Thanks very much!

Hahaha, yeah, it's true, it doesn't have the fancy backlighting and ugly futuristic fonts and everything, but the way I see it, it's got everything a gamer could possibly need. Fairly light, super smooth, super responsive switches in a modern layout. The board can take some pretty good knocks, and it's cheap as chips to boot. A win-win the way I see it.

I suspect Matias put a linear leaf in to stabilise the switch more. Having no stabilisers on one side might make the slider wobble more - and Matias are already known for wobbling more than their ancestors.

Regarding looks, I really have to restrain myself from drawing a parallel between the Dell and a certain Packard Bell .

I always disliked Cherrys modern linear switches, but I newer knew why, until I tried some vintage blacks. Sadly most boards with those are way more expensive than the Dell board.
If only the AEK II didn't have that stupid ADB-Port it'd be of equal value for the money. It's a little more expensive, but the keycaps are way nicer I think.

The linear leaf in Matias switches totally ruins the switch for me though. They get a very light tactile bump which makes the switch one of the worst I've ever tried.* If I had to name a worse one I'd have to resort to Cherry MY, I think.... But yes, I feel like the keywobble of the Matias switches is their one major weakness. Other than that the QC switch is very nice.

*I can only speak for myself of course.

Really interesting video!

I am curious; I have only seen SKCM Cream Damped Alps click-modded, for AEK IIs. How does the sound and feel of the click-modded Black Alps compare to other clicky Alps switches, including click-modded alps?

emdude wrote: Really interesting video!

I am curious; I have only seen SKCM Cream Damped Alps click-modded, for AEK IIs. How does the sound and feel of the click-modded Black Alps compare to other clicky Alps switches, including click-modded alps?

You can click-mod all tactile Alps switches; oranges in particular are said to be really good. Of course, because a tactile leaf is completely different from a click leaf, the sound is different. As for the whole feel, I'll do a video on it sometime in the future maybe .

Sankart wrote: since I don't like or recommend any of the standard Cherry switches

what would you recommend on the linear front in which case, especially for 'beginners'? I for-the-most-part won't recommend cherry either - but I did like the very worn-in mx blacks I had on a second-hand keyboard. Maybe I was lucky and they were lubed by the previous owner since he'd performed other mods on the board, but they were actually really nice.

Are gateron blacks truly that much better, or are you thinking of a harder-to-find option?

derp

I really don't know of a good, modern linear switch, but I never looked into Gateron, since I don't want to support the way they achieve their prices.
If I was a sucker for linear switches and was on a tight budget I'd probably try Chyros modded Dell, or if I was too lazy to open all these switches I'd get a vintage G80 with lasered keycaps, they tend to be rather cheap as well. Broken in Cherry switches are quite good I think.

“Bigfoot” is a made up community name. It means whatever someone wants it to mean.

I could imagine the term only including Alps-made AT101 keyboards, per se, or Japanese boards with exactly the same plastic shell such as the Japanese layout boards for Mitsubishi and Xerox from halfway down this page http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~silencium/k ... ml/ax.html.

I could also imagine it including other extended-layout keyboards from Alps, such as Apple M0115, Wang 725-3770, Zenith ZKB-2, the Sharp keyboard at the top of that link, or even various terminal boards.

I can certainly imagine someone lumping the Silitek-made Dell AT101 and AT101W along with those made directly by Alps.

Sankart wrote: I never looked into Gateron, since I don't want to support the way they achieve their prices.

Which way is that?

Afaik even switches of a single batch can differ a lot, I don't like that. Especially the springs are slightly differently weigthed in basically every switch. Maybe I'm a bit too negative about them, but I think the problems with Zealios R1 tell a lot about their QC.

Sankart wrote: Afaik even switches of a single batch can differ a lot, I don't like that. Especially the springs are slightly differently weigthed in basically every switch. Maybe I'm a bit too negative about them, but I think the problems with Zealios R1 tell a lot about their QC.

Yup, though they are very smooth, which I believe is achieved through a softer plastic than Cherry's (for a while there were lots of reports of broken stems as well). I have a Filco with 62g modded Gateron Blacks and they do feel much nicer than the modern Reds which were originally in it. I believe they have copper contacts which might be more susceptible to oxidation?

I've done that already and I loved the result but the whole Keyboard was way to huge for my taste.
A bit of lube made them even better but the effect wore off quite fast due to cheap lube. Krytox would have lasted longer but who on earth would lube black Alps right?

Sankart wrote: I never looked into Gateron, since I don't want to support the way they achieve their prices.

Sir, I highly support you on that, even if they were very decent, they still would be MX replicas.
Producing a switch with an MX cap compatibility is one thing but counterfeiting is a whole different story.
I know I know, the patent has probably expired but it still is bad taste.

The sad thing is at least in the plastics area gateron has cherry licked , if you let the quality of your product slip to the extent that the knock offs are superior you deserve to have your product ripped off.

This is an awesome idea by the way, i will soon have 2 SGI bigfoots on the way , very tempted to make one liner . I have a bag of black linearised i made from an old dell i got for a few quid for spare alps caps.

Subjectivity alert: a while back I'd linearized an AT101W, and really disliked the feeling. My experience was they they are much scratchier than Alps green or Cherry MX red, but worse, felt kind of mushy and "lifeless." When disassembling the switches, they did not appear to be dirty, and every single switch is relatively scratchy when compared to the other two switches I'd mentioned. I'll eventually be returning the leafs, but modified to click so I can enjoy the board once again.

klikkyklik wrote: Subjectivity alert: a while back I'd linearized an AT101W, and really disliked the feeling. My experience was they they are much scratchier than Alps green or Cherry MX red, but worse, felt kind of mushy and "lifeless." When disassembling the switches, they did not appear to be dirty, and every single switch is relatively scratchy when compared to the other two switches I'd mentioned. I'll eventually be returning the leafs, but modified to click so I can enjoy the board once again.

Really? Mine feels just as smooth as greens Oo . No scratchiness or mushiness at all.

The feeling isn't quite the same, though, as I mentioned in the video. Specifically, while green Alps feel like you're pushing the caps trough soft butter, these black linears feel like you're pushing it through nothing at all. Still smooth as fuck though .

Every time i think of that butter segment in one of your vids i smile. I know the feeling , some of the more exotic and high quality switches feel like your fingers are floating on air, super smooth. Like beamspring that make model F's feel like they have sand in them. mmmmm oh yeh!

andrewjoy wrote: The sad thing is at least in the plastics area gateron has cherry licked , if you let the quality of your product slip to the extent that the knock offs are superior you deserve to have your product ripped off.

Outch... but it is still a controversial move

cookie wrote:

andrewjoy wrote: The sad thing is at least in the plastics area gateron has cherry licked , if you let the quality of your product slip to the extent that the knock offs are superior you deserve to have your product ripped off.

Outch... but it is still a controversial move

It is a bit of a grey area , but my statement holds true , sort your shit out cherry.

As much as I like vintage blacks, I've never noticed that much difference in newer cherry switches. Well I'm out of cherry land since 3 years now.

Is it really that bad?
I have doubts :/

Its terrible , it honestly is. Even stuff from a few years ago is much better, i have a MX 6.0 and the reds in that are almost tactile they are that scratchy , but some nothing special blacks from early to mid 2000s are fine , they are no vintage backs but they are far far better than the stuff from the last few years, ( they are not even used ( that improves cherry switches a ton) they are NIB). even my filco from about 2010 is way better than the reds in the 6.0, something bad is going down in there plastics fab , something not good.

Chyros wrote:

klikkyklik wrote: Subjectivity alert: a while back I'd linearized an AT101W, and really disliked the feeling. My experience was they they are much scratchier than Alps green or Cherry MX red, but worse, felt kind of mushy and "lifeless." When disassembling the switches, they did not appear to be dirty, and every single switch is relatively scratchy when compared to the other two switches I'd mentioned. I'll eventually be returning the leafs, but modified to click so I can enjoy the board once again.

Really? Mine feels just as smooth as greens Oo . No scratchiness or mushiness at all.

The feeling isn't quite the same, though, as I mentioned in the video. Specifically, while green Alps feel like you're pushing the caps trough soft butter, these black linears feel like you're pushing it through nothing at all. Still smooth as fuck though .

I'm thinking perhaps some lube is in order when the leafs go back in.

klikkyklik wrote:

Chyros wrote:

klikkyklik wrote: Subjectivity alert: a while back I'd linearized an AT101W, and really disliked the feeling. My experience was they they are much scratchier than Alps green or Cherry MX red, but worse, felt kind of mushy and "lifeless." When disassembling the switches, they did not appear to be dirty, and every single switch is relatively scratchy when compared to the other two switches I'd mentioned. I'll eventually be returning the leafs, but modified to click so I can enjoy the board once again.

Really? Mine feels just as smooth as greens Oo . No scratchiness or mushiness at all.

The feeling isn't quite the same, though, as I mentioned in the video. Specifically, while green Alps feel like you're pushing the caps trough soft butter, these black linears feel like you're pushing it through nothing at all. Still smooth as fuck though .

I'm thinking perhaps some lube is in order when the leafs go back in.

I don't know tbh, I've had mixed results with lube in the past. Old Alps came with a dry type of lube we have yet to identify - and unfortunately dry lube isn't as forthcoming as liquid ones. Some switches I lubed are actually worse off now than they were before.

andrewjoy wrote: Its terrible , it honestly is. Even stuff from a few years ago is much better, i have a MX 6.0 and the reds in that are almost tactile they are that scratchy , but some nothing special blacks from early to mid 2000s are fine , they are no vintage backs but they are far far better than the stuff from the last few years, ( they are not even used ( that improves cherry switches a ton) they are NIB). even my filco from about 2010 is way better than the reds in the 6.0, something bad is going down in there plastics fab , something not good.

(I'm not asking you specifically, but you were the last to talk about it) Is there a good thread to further talk about cherry MX vs MX 'clone' alternatives? I find it (and switch technologies in general) a very interesting topic and a search returned fruitless

watched this vid few weeks ago and ..just made my "csk 2101n" into non click non tactile switches..(I know this is prob not a good idea...after all my board is not really an ALPS )..
and afterward i used some O-RING to damp the sound of the bottoming...and. it is really not so satisfying...
the shortening of the keystroke travel distance really bother me a lot..it now feels like a really really really really stiff rubber dome .. so I guess I will take out the O-ring and find some other ways to damped the sound ..maybe this time I will placed the ring inside the switches ...not on top of them.

knaxwvc wrote: watched this vid few weeks ago and ..just made my "csk 2101n" into non click non tactile switches..(I know this is prob not a good idea...after all my board is not really an ALPS )..
and afterward i used some O-RING to damp the sound of the bottoming...and. it is really not so satisfying...
the shortening of the keystroke travel distance really bother me a lot..it now feels like a really really really really stiff rubber dome .. so I guess I will take out the O-ring and find some other ways to damped the sound ..maybe this time I will placed the ring inside the switches ...not on top of them.

What you are searching is an AEKII.

What you are searching is an AEKII. [/quote]
as per my understanding that AEKII are for mac?? is it ? I am a PC only guy...poooooorly managed one..
it's just for my own typing pleasure not for any productive activities ,so I think I best kept this as econ as possible...
meaning I don't think I can spend anymore on any other boards , no matter how great they are...
still BIG THANKS for the tip.