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Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 05 May 2021, 17:17
by Chyros
Today we look at Glorious' new GMMK Pro! With a whole bunch of extras, no less. And aso the much-requested Glorious Pandas. Hope you enjoy the video!
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 05 May 2021, 20:30
by daguil68367
I was looking forward to this review, as I wanted to see what you'd think of the typing feel of a gasket-mounted keyboard. Then again, I suppose this wasn't the best board to make those differences apparent, as the gaskets come very compressed already, the way the keyboard is put together, and the aluminum mounting plate isn't really helping matters. Maybe a polycarbonate plate would've been more fitting for this review.
I'm in the same boat when it comes to being skeptical of a "bouncier" typing feel (after all, isn't a harsh bottom out one of the main differences between mechanical and membrane keyboards?), but for people who prefer a tight and quiet sound profile as opposed to something louder and roomier, there's definitely a tangible difference judging from the plethora of typing demos on Youtube. There's also the idea of a more "even" typing feel and sound across a keyboard, which admittedly makes sense, since the arrangement of standoffs on a tray-mount keyboard leads the switches near the standoffs to have no flex. Meanwhile, the keys in the corner of the flex a bit due to the lack of support, leading to inconsistencies in feel and sound. I suspect that top/bottom/integrated mounts all improve on the typing feel compared to tray mounts, while the sandwich and gasket mounting styles present an option for people who prefer softer bottom outs and a different sound profile.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 05 May 2021, 21:28
by an_achronism
I think I recall one of the various other video reviews of this noting that the gasket mounting thing being more of a gimmick than a functional selling point in the case of this particular board because it's sandwiched in there so tightly that any bounce you might otherwise have felt is more or less negated. I'd be lying if I said I knew who I got that from, however.
Still, I would probably be interested in a full size version of this, were such a thing to materialise. There's clearly a market for 75% that they were wise to cater to but I'm not into that myself.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 15:59
by Myoth
good god, that is by far the worst video you've made, I usually don't like them for a few different reasons but this one takes the cake.
@ 9:12
... now to me making your keyboard a fraction bouncier sounds like one of the most pointless things anyone ever came up with. Seriously guys, if plate bounciness is something that matters to you, you should really get out there and try some keyboards that are actually different.
You're being cheeky there, you pass your opinion as some kind of verse from the bible. No, if plate bounciness is something that matters to them, they should really not get out there and try some keyboards that are actually different. YOU should, this is just an opinion from someone really really REALLY disconnected from the modern aspect of the community. It's YOUR responsibility to be curious about those things, you're discarding something that's popular in the modern-side of the community because you think it's dumb and hope to make a fair review on something that brings this popular aspect to light ? That's not much of a fair review. It's fine if you have your opinion that harsh bottom out on steel plates are what is superior to everything else. But please, don't give any lessons to people that might discover the modern part of the community with this video that are now going to think flex = bad because they've just seen a dinosaur's video on something that's really far from his comfort zone.
@ 13:55
However, what the MX platform offers more than anything else out there by far is customisability [...] they [the people you read opinions of] care much more about the keyboard itself more than I do" and then proceeds to showcase a "plastic piece of shit [...] but it still has great switches, so I still love it
In case anyone is confused with the next reply, a statement is thrown and then a context-less opinion, why shouldn't one care about keyboards ? this is a reply on this context.
Again, super disconnected from the modern community and cheeky. I'm not going to deny that people care about the keyboard itself, this would be dumb ... because we're all in this hobby about KEYBOARDS. The problem lies within your misconception that all modern keyboards are the same when it couldn't be further away from the truth if you tried. I can't blame you for thinking that when you've had your 32nd Focus keyboard with the same shitty case, construction, etc : you must've grown numb to keyboards because a lot of them are straight up generic (hint at the prebuilt aspect I mention later). I've been through vintage keyboards of all sorts, but modern customs bring something that a vintage board could never bring, comfort-orientated typing-induced design. Apart from the very few (good) ergonomic keyboards which do aim at comfort-orientated typing, but those are worth way more than most custom keyboards.
I'll go past my original generalisation of "we're all in this", people care about the keyboard themselves because they seek a typing feel that's different from prebuilts. Vintage keyboards are nothing more than prebuilts. The marketing was the exact same, albeit old-timer, advertising bullshit that any current gaming keyboard brand gives. But that doesn't mean that ...
@ 14:27
In other words, MX type switches [...] are for people who don't actually care about switches, they just care about the chassis
... that doesn't mean people don't care about switches. If anything they care more than ever because there is so much diversity. If it were as you say, then people would use the same switch, but that's not the case because switches (read as stems, top housing, bottom housing and springs) are now as varied as they possibly can. Everyone can make their own down to a insane level of personalisation, that's the core motive of people in the hobby nowadays. They don't care about only switches or only chassies. They aren't willing to get any new switch that comes out, or pay for any chassis out of sheer desperation to get that dopamine pumping, no, they care about either because they want to have the most comfortable setup for their own needs. Something that's just forced onto you when you have a prebuilt keyboard, vintage or modern.
@ 15:05
So the bigger picture revealed, this keyboard is for two types of people, [truth] and those who want something that's similar to a korean custom type keyboards but more easily obtainable and for less money
I can guarantee you that this is straight up wrong. No one that wants something similar to a korean custom is going to a GMMK Pro, for many reasons. There are many types of people that are into "kustoms", but I think the main two ones are those who are about history of the hobby, how community-made keyboards evolved and were already so far ahead so long ago and those who do it for the clout of having another brand-name keyboard. Neither of them is ever going to consider the GMMK Pro.
People who consider the GMMK Pro do not know about kustoms in the first place.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 16:10
by Myoth
for anyone still in doubt, please check out this video by someone more into the modern aspect of the community, you will wonder if they are reviewing the same keyboard.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 16:27
by an_achronism
Forgive me but Chyros openly refers to himself as a curmugeonly old dinosaur in his videos and consistently lays his biases on the table, in my opinion. That's more than enough for me. I wouldn't take any one review as gospel, regardless, and to claim that any reviewer has a "responsibility" to present everything completely fairly and without any form of bias just strikes me as a tad naïve. You repeatedly make reference to him being opinionated and say that this "invalidates" reviews... sorry, man, but every review worth reading/hearing is opinionated, otherwise it isn't really a review, it's a spec sheet. As long as the reviewer does not present the information as objective fact, which I don't feel Chyros does at all, it's down to the reader/viewer to parse the information and "take it with a pinch of salt", as it were. Read/watch other reviews. Decide for yourself what you think you agree with and what you think you don't, and which parts you would need to research more or try out yourself before you can really make up your mind. It ain't the reviewer's "responsibility" to present you with nothing but dry data so you can take it all as read.
The most acclaimed film critics of all time write/wrote some of the most incredibly opinionated, subjective, biased reviews I've ever seen in my life, but you rarely see them being torn apart for "invalidating" their own work. It isn't just about being objective, it's also about being entertaining and being honest about how you feel about the thing you're assessing, biased or not.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 16:37
by Muirium
Humour. It is hard.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 16:50
by Bjerrk
This is the worst video I - or anyone, ever(!) - have seen. The person making the video has views which are different from my views. That is unacceptable!
I expect Deskthority to punish this Dutch freethinker!
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 16:55
by Myoth
an_achronism wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 16:27
Forgive me but Chyros openly refers to himself as a curmugeonly old dinosaur in his videos and consistently lays his biases on the table, in my opinion. That's more than enough for me. I wouldn't take any one review as gospel, regardless, and to claim that any reviewer has a "responsibility" to present everything completely fairly and without any form of bias just strikes me as a tad naïve. You repeatedly make reference to him being opinionated and say that this "invalidates" reviews... sorry, man, but every review worth reading/hearing is opinionated, otherwise it isn't really a review, it's a spec sheet. As long as the reviewer does not present the information as objective fact, which I don't feel Chyros does at all, it's down to the reader/viewer to parse the information and "take it with a pinch of salt", as it were. Read/watch other reviews. Decide for yourself what you think you agree with and what you think you don't, and which parts you would need to research more or try out yourself before you can really make up your mind. It ain't the reviewer's "responsibility" to present you with nothing but dry data so you can take it all as read.
The most acclaimed film critics of all time write/wrote some of the most incredibly opinionated, subjective, biased reviews I've ever seen in my life, but you rarely see them being torn apart for "invalidating" their own work. It isn't just about being objective, it's also about being entertaining and being honest about how you feel about the thing you're assessing, biased or not.
Have you read his comments ? they are filled with people that praise him on the basis of his videos, which misrepresent a lot of the stuff he mentions. It's cool that you don't take any review as gospel, I'm proud of you, but you're nothing more than an anecdote, many people do take them as gospel and it's just sad that this is their only source of information. Starting from the moment you have an audience, you are a form of authority, you can't spew BS as you could on a forum. There's no one to slap your hand and tell you you're wrong.
Furthermore, I am not saying "all bias is bad", or not as crudely as this. I meant to say that a lot of his bias is passed on as being facts. The first quote is so damn intrusive, "now to me" followed by "seriously guys, if x than you need to y" ? excuse me ? I know bias is inherent, but it should be distinctive from facts. You could hate a keyboard but it be an objectively good keyboard. I.E. I don't think AT101s are any bad as far as objectivity goes, I just hate them and find them incredibly boring.
And yes, read/watch other reviews, that's why I linked the other review, which not only is another opinion but goes much more in-depth into the keyboard and is way more insightful.
Cool, don't care, it's not the same thing, you're comparing an interaction with a piece of media to the feeling to a tool.
Bjerrk wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 16:50
The person making the video has views which are different from my views.
I never once stated my opinion on this keyboard lol
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 17:22
by an_achronism
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 16:55
Have you read his comments ?
Yes.
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 16:55
they are filled with people that praise him on the basis of his videos, which misrepresent a lot of the stuff he mentions.
This is their problem more than his, as far as I'm concerned. One cannot be held responsible for tribalist and/or simplistic thinking in their audience unless they actively encourage it, which I don't feel Chyros does. When he pokes fun at Cherry or reduced form factor keyboards or anything else for that matter, it's done in a way which makes clear that he's not trying to give you information you should accept as objectively true, it's clearly an opinion because tone is a thing that exists. If these were written reviews, it would be somewhat easier to misinterpret tone, but it's very apparent to me that much of Chryos' style involves his tongue being planted so firmly in his cheek that it risks breaking through the other side and inadvertently tasting earlobe. That doesn't mean that there is nothing of value to be gleaned, though.
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 16:55
Furthermore, I am not saying "all bias is bad", or not as crudely as this. I meant to say that a lot of his bias is passed on as being facts. The first quote is so damn intrusive, "now to me" followed by "seriously guys, if x than you need to y" ? excuse me ? I know bias is inherent, but it should be distinctive from facts.
Again, it perplexes me that much of your argument appears to hinge on the supposition that phrasing something as a statement means that you are presenting what you're saying as factually and objectively correct, regardless of the tone you are making said statement with.
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 16:55
You could hate a keyboard but it be an objectively good keyboard. I.E. I don't think AT101s are any bad as far as objectivity goes, I just hate them and find them incredibly boring.
Mostly unrelated but I just got one myself and I'm inclined to agree that they're not especially interesting. I wasn't really expecting anything different, at least, but I don't regret getting hold of one to satisfy my curiosity!
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 16:55
And yes, read/watch other reviews, that's why I linked the other review, which not only is another opinion but goes much more in-depth into the keyboard and is way more insightful.
I might even be willing to concede that the review you linked (which I'd already actually seen myself, and several others about this board, because I was curious about it both for myself and for my partner, who has very different keyboard tastes and priorities) potentially is more insightful, and at the very least more detailed on some of the technical makeup of the board. I just don't agree that it makes Chyros' one bad.
I don't go into a Chyros video expecting a detailed technical analysis of the construction of a modern "DIY" keyboard kit because that isn't really his thing. He's going to play to his strengths, and I feel like he did here. Yeah, that means you're going to get a more thorough breakdown of some aspects elsewhere. That's OK though. Conversely, I wouldn't go to JYMV or Taeha if I wanted an informed breakdown of a vintage board either, because that would be silly. It's OK that he covered a modern board and didn't do so in the same way as other reviewers who cover that sort of hardware routinely.
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 16:55
Cool, don't care, it's not the same thing, you're comparing an interaction with a piece of media to the feeling to a tool.
I will dig my heels in on this point and insist that it is in fact exactly the same thing. "The feeling of a tool". "Feeling". Exactly. Two people with generally similar tastes and views might use the exact same tool or consume the exact same piece of media in exactly the same way and yet manage to come to drastically different conclusions despite having the same input stimulus. Everybody has a different take on things, regardless of which thing it is we're talking about. Film, music, keyboard, phone, circular saw, trampoline. Doesn't matter.
Which is a long way of saying, I understand why you didn't enjoy the video, but I also think that your point by point dissection of it was misguided and not especially helpful to anybody.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 18:09
by raoulduke-esq
I just wish he'd stop with the metric to standard conversions, which I recently learned were BLATANTLY FALSE FAKE NEWS when I tried to purchase 5 hotdogpizzas worth of cake flour and a "golly gosh darn go and grab the Bible" of apples at the local grocery store.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 18:35
by Myoth
an_achronism wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 17:22
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 16:55
Have you read his comments ?
Yes.
I meant the comment section but w/e, my bad
an_achronism wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 17:22
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 16:55
they are filled with people that praise him on the basis of his videos, which misrepresent a lot of the stuff he mentions.
This is their problem more than his, as far as I'm concerned. One cannot be held responsible for tribalist and/or simplistic thinking in their audience unless they actively encourage it, which I don't feel Chyros does. When he pokes fun at Cherry or reduced form factor keyboards or anything else for that matter, it's done in a way which makes clear that he's not trying to give you information you should accept as objectively true, it's clearly an opinion because tone is a thing that exists. If these were written reviews, it would be somewhat easier to misinterpret tone, but it's very apparent to me that much of Chryos' style involves his tongue being planted so firmly in his cheek that it risks breaking through the other side and inadvertently tasting earlobe. That doesn't mean that there is nothing of value to be gleaned, though.
Maybe in an utopia this is how it goes, but right now, there are many instances that point to his reviews as being detrimental to the vintage aspect of the hobby. I should be happy, I am into Cherry after all. But still, it irks me when I see newcomers come in and ask jarring questions that would be answered quite easily if they didn't get their "information" from him*. If you watch the videos for the tongue in cheek tone, very well, but they shouldn't be called reviews then. I personally want a review to give me as much information as possible so that I can form an opinion on them myself.
*My original post was to correct this kind of behaviour by prospectively saying how some things are skewed/untrue.
an_achronism wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 17:22
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 16:55
Furthermore, I am not saying "all bias is bad", or not as crudely as this. I meant to say that a lot of his bias is passed on as being facts. The first quote is so damn intrusive, "now to me" followed by "seriously guys, if x than you need to y" ? excuse me ? I know bias is inherent, but it should be distinctive from facts.
Again, it perplexes me that much of your argument appears to hinge on the supposition that phrasing something as a statement means that you are presenting what you're saying as factually and objectively correct, regardless of the tone you are making said statement with.
You'll have to excuse me for not being native, maybe you'd rather have me talk in french ?
an_achronism wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 17:22
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 16:55
And yes, read/watch other reviews, that's why I linked the other review, which not only is another opinion but goes much more in-depth into the keyboard and is way more insightful.
I might even be willing to concede that the review you linked (which I'd already actually seen myself, and several others about this board, because I was curious about it both for myself and for my partner, who has very different keyboard tastes and priorities) potentially is more insightful, and at the very least more detailed on some of the technical makeup of the board. I just don't agree that it makes Chyros' one bad.
I don't go into a Chyros video expecting a detailed technical analysis of the construction of a modern "DIY" keyboard kit because that isn't really his thing. He's going to play to his strengths, and I feel like he did here. Yeah, that means you're going to get a more thorough breakdown of some aspects elsewhere. That's OK though. Conversely, I wouldn't go to JYMV or Taeha if I wanted an informed breakdown of a vintage board either, because that would be silly. It's OK that he covered a modern board and didn't do so in the same way as other reviewers who cover that sort of hardware routinely.
If it isn't really his thing then don't do a review ? If I were a film critic, I would not agree to review a music album because I lack all the context needed to review this album.
So when modern people review vintage stuff is silly but the other way around is not ? I don't get it man
an_achronism wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 17:22
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 16:55
Cool, don't care, it's not the same thing, you're comparing an interaction with a piece of media to the feeling to a tool.
I will dig my heels in on this point and insist that it is in fact exactly the same thing. "The feeling of a tool". "Feeling". Exactly. Two people with generally similar tastes and views might use the exact same tool or consume the exact same piece of media in exactly the same way and yet manage to come to drastically different conclusions despite having the same input stimulus. Everybody has a different take on things, regardless of which thing it is we're talking about. Film, music, keyboard, phone, circular saw, trampoline. Doesn't matter.
Which is a long way of saying, I understand why you didn't enjoy the video, but I also think that your point by point dissection of it was misguided and not especially helpful to anybody.
That's true, they will not come to the same conclusion and that they all have a different take on things. But that doesn't mean that all opinions are as valuable. Like I said, if I were a film critic, I would not agree to review a music album because I lack all the context needed to review this album. I'll add that, I personally would be ashamed of putting out a review for it because despite the authority I have, I would spew complete bollocks but I am not knowledgeable about this topic. I sure will have an opinion, but I sure wouldn't have the audacity to call it a review.
But whatever, you're right, he shouldn't be held accountable for being biased, doesn't change what he said that misrepresented the biggest part of the hobby, the kind of "context" I mention above.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 18:58
by zrrion
Can't compare the GMMK to contemporaries since he doesn't have any, can't really let it stand on its own merits since he got the options that negates the gasket (which is one of the selling points). Video could have been summed up as "aluminum block, modern MX, I don't like those" and had just as much useful content as the video. I don't understand why he would do this particular review without getting an actual feel for not only the gasket in this board, but also how it compares to similar boards.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 18:59
by Wazrach
I wouldn't mind if Myoth was critical without being an asshole, but that's just not true unfortunately. Nobody wants to listen to you when you speak to/about people like that.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 19:12
by an_achronism
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 18:35
I meant the comment section but w/e, my bad
I know you did, that was the question I was answering.
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 18:35
Maybe in an utopia this is how it goes, but right now, there are many instances that point to his reviews as being detrimental to the vintage aspect of the hobby. I should be happy, I am into Cherry after all. But still, it irks me when I see newcomers come in and ask jarring questions that would be answered quite easily if they didn't get their "information" from him*. If you watch the videos for the tongue in cheek tone, very well, but they shouldn't be called reviews then. I personally want a review to give me as much information as possible so that I can form an opinion on them myself.
*My original post was to correct this kind of behaviour by prospectively saying how some things are skewed/untrue.
As I feel I've said a number of times and in a few different ways, I don't think aiming for an element of entertainment to prevent things from being dry and boring as hell in any way disqualifies a review from being a review, but that's OK, we're not going to agree on that point.
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 18:35
So when modern people review vintage stuff is silly but the other way around is not ? I don't get it man
I didn't say that. I said that I would not expect those channels to nail a vintage keyboard video in the way that I feel Chyros often does, just as I wouldn't expect Chyros to nail a modern keyboard video in the level of detail that you evidently require as a bare minimum. I feel like it's OK to have varying degrees of knowledge/specialisation and that not being completely immersed in every aspect of the intended audience for the thing you're reviewing should not mean you cannot pass judgement on, or indeed review, that product/service. It's up to the audience to decide how much stock to put in what you're saying, which they get to do based partially on how you represent your own level of knowledge, bias, and so on... and again, I think Chyros is very up front about this being a little outside of his personal area of interest/expertise, so I don't see the problem. I rarely take Mark Kermode's conclusions on comedy films as reliable data when deciding whether his review is a good indication of whether I will like or dislike a given film, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't review comedy films; on the other hand, I almost always seem to agree with him when it comes to something like horror (the man is always banging on about The Exorcist and William Friedkin, god love 'im, and I can't help but agree even if I am laughing at him constantly humming the same tune over and over again). If people take this video as the be all and end all, that's their mistake, not his for making the video in the first place.
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 18:35
That's true, they will not come to the same conclusion and that they all have a different take on things. But that doesn't mean that all opinions are as valuable.
Indeed not! But it also doesn't mean that any opinion other than one formed by absolute immersion in the knowledge and trappings of a given audience is automatically and totally invalid.
Less valid? Maybe, I don't know. I'd argue that it is valuable
because it shows an alternative perspective that isn't as coloured by the usual things you'd expect from a video made by somebody who is fully part of the intended target audience, but I take your point nonetheless. But to go on this huge rant about how the video is terrible and it's the worst one he's ever made and he shouldn't be allowed to make videos like this and call them reviews is frankly a bit much, methinks. Different strokes, blah blah.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 19:57
by kbdfr
There we go again.
There’s a reason why people publishing reviews on YouTube are called influencers.
The problem is not that much Chyros himself (who at least has good quality videos and a terrific voice), the problem is that to be successful (and continue to make a dime) he has to entertain his audience, and he could not if he just said "this is fine" and "that is great" and "I like this" and so on.
And all his rants and disparagements are simply taken for granted by people who of course loudly deny being influenced, like those drunken folks saying "of course I still can drive".
Myoth, ne te laisse pas faire
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 21:35
by Myoth
an_achronism wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 19:12
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 18:35
So when modern people review vintage stuff is silly but the other way around is not ? I don't get it man
I didn't say that. I said that I would not expect those channels to nail a vintage keyboard video in the way that I feel Chyros often does, just as I wouldn't expect Chyros to nail a modern keyboard video in the level of detail that you evidently require as a bare minimum. I feel like it's OK to have varying degrees of knowledge/specialisation and that not being completely immersed in every aspect of the intended audience for the thing you're reviewing should not mean you cannot pass judgement on, or indeed review, that product/service. It's up to the audience to decide how much stock to put in what you're saying, which they get to do based partially on how you represent your own level of knowledge, bias, and so on... and again, I think Chyros is very up front about this being a little outside of his personal area of interest/expertise, so I don't see the problem. I rarely take Mark Kermode's conclusions on comedy films as reliable data when deciding whether his review is a good indication of whether I will like or dislike a given film, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't review comedy films; on the other hand, I almost always seem to agree with him when it comes to something like horror (the man is always banging on about The Exorcist and William Friedkin, god love 'im, and I can't help but agree even if I am laughing at him constantly humming the same tune over and over again). If people take this video as the be all and end all, that's their mistake, not his for making the video in the first place.
Right, but not everyone (certainly not the people in his comment section) has taken a step back to evaluate what you get from this review. Nothing stops anyone from making a review, not my point, but he's seen as an authority. His review will be immediately be taken very seriously to people whom this kind of board doesn't speak volumes to. If you've been into vintage for a long time, it's easy to see his biases and how you wouldn't listen to him on anything Cherry. If you're new, you're going to think those are straight truths. If you've been into modern stuff for a long time, it's easy to see how this is poorly made. If you've been into modern stuff for a long time, you're just going to assimilate those notions as truths.
As he is almost the only source of vintage keyboard content on youtube, you can assume he gets the most amount of attention, and is therefore going to launch more people into this side of the hobby more than anyone else. He's a gateway to vintage keyboards and is a bad one at that, because he is so tongue-in-cheek. I wouldn't have a problem with that if other people were doing the correct work on youtube as well, but no, there's no one. If you somehow stumble upon his videos and aren't in the hobby already, you're going to have a very skewed vision of the hobby that doesn't represent how those keyboards actually are.
I understand that it might be the audience's mistake to listen to him, but when you don't know much about a subject, you don't have much of a choice. You may know that you shouldn't really take in account Mark Kermode's reviews on comedy films, but no one that's getting into movies and see these reviews can to take the step back to see that even as a reviewer, it's still opinionated.
an_achronism wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 19:12
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 18:35
That's true, they will not come to the same conclusion and that they all have a different take on things. But that doesn't mean that all opinions are as valuable.
Indeed not! But it also doesn't mean that any opinion other than one formed by absolute immersion in the knowledge and trappings of a given audience is automatically and totally invalid.
Less valid? Maybe, I don't know. I'd argue that it is valuable
because it shows an alternative perspective that isn't as coloured by the usual things you'd expect from a video made by somebody who is fully part of the intended target audience, but I take your point nonetheless. But to go on this huge rant about how the video is terrible and it's the worst one he's ever made and he shouldn't be allowed to make videos like this and call them reviews is frankly a bit much, methinks. Different strokes, blah blah.
Maybe it came out wrong even though I spent a lot of time thinking about this. I just think it's really unfortunate to see this content being blasted to 114 000 people when it's full of big huge enormities that come out really wrong to anyone that's the least deep into this hobby. And would rather sit here making this rant and
maybe change something than just do nothing and see the flow of people coming from there degenerate into this really opinionated crowd that will only listen to their weekly gospel.
kbdfr wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 19:57
Myoth, ne te laisse pas faire
Ne compte pas là-dessus ! Ignorer ses vidéos était jusque-là facile, mais sur un sujet qu'il connaît si mal, ce devrait être plutôt facile de montrer sa bêtise
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 06 May 2021, 22:57
by Bjerrk
Chyros wrote: ↑05 May 2021, 17:17
Today we look at Glorious' new GMMK Pro! With a whole bunch of extras, no less. And aso the much-requested Glorious Pandas. Hope you enjoy the video!
Thanks for a well-rounded and appropriately biased review, man!
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 07 May 2021, 05:17
by Elrick
Bjerrk wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 22:57
Chyros wrote: ↑05 May 2021, 17:17
Today we look at Glorious' new GMMK Pro! With a whole bunch of extras, no less. And aso the much-requested Glorious Pandas. Hope you enjoy the video!
Thanks for a well-rounded and appropriately biased review, man!
He actually mentioned quite clearly at 50 seconds into the video, that everyone wanted to hear his "Neolithic Perspective of this Keyboard".
Said and noted.
Normally I'm attracted to his honest commentary here with regard to keyboards, so in a way I am defending his viewpoint here.
He also shows clearly what was done previously by the same company that has released the current PRO series model.
Chyros also got far more extras than any of us would ever get from this Company here, which overall just sux extremely. If we had to get all the stuff supplied to him, we would have to spend far more money to get these items which other Group Buys already supplied with their Aluminium, hotswap models for FREE.
Love his new 'Glorious Enema Balloon', supplied by the Company
.
Have also personally placed two orders, for some Dye-sub key caps here in Convict Town. As well as for a Silver Glorious PRO keyboard. Just to find out for myself.
Also agree about his unbiased truthful comment that all CherryMX styled switches, which are for people who don't care about switches. YES, all the CherryMX crowd have erected their Burning Cross for you Chyros
.
It's all about availability of the switch and nothing more. Onya Chyros, hope you are still around for another review.......
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 07 May 2021, 05:27
by Elrick
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 21:35
but no one that's getting into movies and see these reviews can to take the step back to see that even as a reviewer, it's still opinionated.
It's also the Internet, home of only opinion and personal reviews. That has now become the new normal these days.
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 21:35
And would rather sit here making this rant and
maybe change something than just do nothing and see the flow of people coming from there degenerate into this really opinionated crowd that will only listen to their weekly gospel.
It's called the
Chyros Gospel, so please be respectful here, if you want to arrive into the Kingdom of Keyboards unscathed by the Lord himself
.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 07 May 2021, 11:03
by Chyros
Myoth wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 15:59
good god, that is by far the worst video you've made, I usually don't like them for a few different reasons but this one takes the cake.
@ 9:12
... now to me making your keyboard a fraction bouncier sounds like one of the most pointless things anyone ever came up with. Seriously guys, if plate bounciness is something that matters to you, you should really get out there and try some keyboards that are actually different.
You're being cheeky there, you pass your opinion as some kind of verse from the bible. No, if plate bounciness is something that matters to them, they should really not get out there and try some keyboards that are actually different. YOU should, this is just an opinion from someone really really REALLY disconnected from the modern aspect of the community. It's YOUR responsibility to be curious about those things, you're discarding something that's popular in the modern-side of the community because you think it's dumb and hope to make a fair review on something that brings this popular aspect to light ? That's not much of a fair review. It's fine if you have your opinion that harsh bottom out on steel plates are what is superior to everything else. But please, don't give any lessons to people that might discover the modern part of the community with this video that are now going to think flex = bad because they've just seen a dinosaur's video on something that's really far from his comfort zone.
@ 13:55
However, what the MX platform offers more than anything else out there by far is customisability [...] they [the people you read opinions of] care much more about the keyboard itself more than I do" and then proceeds to showcase a "plastic piece of shit [...] but it still has great switches, so I still love it
In case anyone is confused with the next reply, a statement is thrown and then a context-less opinion, why shouldn't one care about keyboards ? this is a reply on this context.
Again, super disconnected from the modern community and cheeky. I'm not going to deny that people care about the keyboard itself, this would be dumb ... because we're all in this hobby about KEYBOARDS. The problem lies within your misconception that all modern keyboards are the same when it couldn't be further away from the truth if you tried. I can't blame you for thinking that when you've had your 32nd Focus keyboard with the same shitty case, construction, etc : you must've grown numb to keyboards because a lot of them are straight up generic (hint at the prebuilt aspect I mention later). I've been through vintage keyboards of all sorts, but modern customs bring something that a vintage board could never bring, comfort-orientated typing-induced design. Apart from the very few (good) ergonomic keyboards which do aim at comfort-orientated typing, but those are worth way more than most custom keyboards.
I'll go past my original generalisation of "we're all in this", people care about the keyboard themselves because they seek a typing feel that's different from prebuilts. Vintage keyboards are nothing more than prebuilts. The marketing was the exact same, albeit old-timer, advertising bullshit that any current gaming keyboard brand gives. But that doesn't mean that ...
@ 14:27
In other words, MX type switches [...] are for people who don't actually care about switches, they just care about the chassis
... that doesn't mean people don't care about switches. If anything they care more than ever because there is so much diversity. If it were as you say, then people would use the same switch, but that's not the case because switches (read as stems, top housing, bottom housing and springs) are now as varied as they possibly can. Everyone can make their own down to a insane level of personalisation, that's the core motive of people in the hobby nowadays. They don't care about only switches or only chassies. They aren't willing to get any new switch that comes out, or pay for any chassis out of sheer desperation to get that dopamine pumping, no, they care about either because they want to have the most comfortable setup for their own needs. Something that's just forced onto you when you have a prebuilt keyboard, vintage or modern.
@ 15:05
So the bigger picture revealed, this keyboard is for two types of people, [truth] and those who want something that's similar to a korean custom type keyboards but more easily obtainable and for less money
I can guarantee you that this is straight up wrong. No one that wants something similar to a korean custom is going to a GMMK Pro, for many reasons. There are many types of people that are into "kustoms", but I think the main two ones are those who are about history of the hobby, how community-made keyboards evolved and were already so far ahead so long ago and those who do it for the clout of having another brand-name keyboard. Neither of them is ever going to consider the GMMK Pro.
People who consider the GMMK Pro do not know about kustoms in the first place.
Hahaha I didn't read any of that, but it's always funny to see how much my videos upset you
.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 07 May 2021, 12:18
by Bjerrk
I'm not sure which I like more - the video or this thread.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 07 May 2021, 15:38
by Chyros
Bjerrk wrote: ↑07 May 2021, 12:18
I'm not sure which I like more - the video or this thread.
Ah man, DT is a thousand times better for drama than reddit is. Let that sink in for a second xD .
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 07 May 2021, 23:43
by bujorc
Wouldn't miss the opportunity to support the discussion with an objective view: MX is a piece of shit platform, except if you're into having a #diverseLED #colourful #stupidly-made-from-metal keyboard which sounds and feels like crap - which, btw, are the most important cues when typing; and I would go so far as saying that there is a limit to what is a PROPER FEEDBACK. Stop telling me that you like typing on sandpaper, fuck your rebel attitude just for the sake of it.
If you call what happens in the MX world "diversity", you must be out of your mind. It's rather border autistic. Feel-wise and sound-wise, it has consistently been a piece of shit platform. #diversity my ass.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 08 May 2021, 00:35
by Myoth
Chyros wrote: ↑07 May 2021, 11:03
Hahaha I didn't read any of that, but it's always funny to see how much my videos upset you
.
That's such a sad sight, not only can you not make good content, you also can't take any form of criticism. Hope you enjoy creating, interacting and more than anything enabling an ignorant audience (as displayed in the post above
)
bujorc wrote: ↑07 May 2021, 23:43
#stupidly-made-from-metal keyboard which sounds and feels like crap
or maybe he meant beamsprings ? not sure, not sure !
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 08 May 2021, 00:37
by photekq
Chyros wrote: ↑07 May 2021, 11:03
Hahaha I didn't read any of that, but it's always funny to see how much my videos upset you
.
I don't think he's
that upset mate, it's just his manner of speech. I think he's just a bit irked at the way you present your opinions on MX. You don't like MX switches yourself, so the impression is always given in your videos that they're
objectively bad. I don't think he'd have any qualms or feel the need to comment if you made it more clear that it's just your opinion and nothing more. People who've been collecting and trying keyboards for a while fully understand their subjective nature, but beginners might not.
The most glaring example of the blurred line between "your opinion" and "fact" shows itself in this latest video, when you say "In other words, MX type switches [...] are for people who don't actually care about switches, they just care about the chassis". That's just flat out wrong, man
I use MX switches because I generally prefer them to any other kind; I prefer nicely tuned MX switches to any alps/IBM offering I've tried to date. Well, except for beamspring, but that's hardly useable, is it?
It's equivalent to me making a video review where I claim that Model Fs and white Alps are for people who don't actually care about switches, and only care about disturbing their family members with a racket. That'd be flat out wrong, wouldn't it?
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 08 May 2021, 01:06
by bujorc
I mean... the fact that you like shitty music doesn't change the fact that the music is... shitty. Objectively speaking. There's a reason why the entire French rap didn't get as many awards as Beatles, for example
I'm all for inclusion, and Alps was a great platform, offering a wide variety of tactile and audible feedback. MX moves since half a century within the same square meter, covered in LEDs and caps. It doesn't matter that you prefer its shitty sound to the Alps' fuller one. The fact that some people like it altogether, doesn't save it from being a terrible platform. Just like Trump and his crowd, for example.
Cheers!
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 08 May 2021, 01:28
by Myoth
bujorc wrote: ↑08 May 2021, 01:06
I mean... the fact that you like shitty music doesn't change the fact that the music is... shitty. Objectively speaking. There's a reason why the entire French rap didn't get as many awards as Beatles, for example
If they won a lot of awards it's because a lot of people love them, not because they're good. The Beatles started their career 50 years ago, while French rap emerged about 25. Not only this but The Beatles are English speaking, they speak to a lot more people than anything French, rap or not.
But what did I expect when I just mentioned how ignorant you are
bujorc wrote: ↑08 May 2021, 01:06
I'm all for inclusion, and Alps was a great platform, offering a wide variety of tactile and audible feedback. MX moves since half a century within the same square meter, covered in LEDs and caps. It doesn't matter that you prefer its shitty sound to the Alps' fuller one. The fact that some people like it altogether, doesn't save it from being a terrible platform. Just like Trump and his crowd, for example.
Yet Alps is completely dead, they don't move at all
Furthermore, we have seen quite nice innovations recently from MX's "same square meter" : Clickbars ? Click Leaves ? Silo switches ? Optical switches ? Hall Effect switches ? But then again, what did I expect from you?
Maybe it's time to suck out and stroll somewhere else, aye ? Cheers !
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 08 May 2021, 01:31
by photekq
bujorc wrote: ↑08 May 2021, 01:06
I mean... the fact that you like shitty music doesn't change the fact that the music is... shitty. Objectively speaking. There's a reason why the entire French rap didn't get as many awards as Beatles, for example
I'm all for inclusion, and Alps was a great platform, offering a wide variety of tactile and audible feedback. MX moves since half a century within the same square meter, covered in LEDs and caps. It doesn't matter that you prefer its shitty sound to the Alps' fuller one. The fact that some people like it altogether, doesn't save it from being a terrible platform. Just like Trump and his crowd, for example.
Cheers!
Man, you're strange. You really think that music is objective, that The Beatles are objectively better than, say, Gazo or Freeze Corleone? No wonder you think the same way about keyboards.
Keep following that train of thought, enjoy The Beatles, enjoy your "objectively less shitty" switches, if it helps you feel more bigger and more smarter. Good on you. I'll continue judging things subjectively and enjoying things as I please while blasting Drill FR 4. It's more fun, you should try it
I can get my blue Alps out for a few days, enjoy them for what they are - an excellent switch if you're fortunate with the example you pick up - and then return to my MX and Topre keyboards, which I find more welcoming and less jarring.
Re: Glorious GMMK Pro review (Glorious Pandas)
Posted: 08 May 2021, 01:32
by an_achronism
*checks thread*
*takes impossibly long draw of cigarette*
*walks away quietly*