F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[cooldiscretion]

Wow, this is impressive. I'd definitely be interested in seeing a proto

[Ellipse]

Here are some prototype renderings for the F62 and F77 with the powdercoated original off white/beige finish and the clear coat style finish. These are not how they will look because the colors and textures are not accurate - it's just to display the renderings.

The last picture is a side profile wireframe view. You can see that the main metal parts all have 1 mm or more of "give" or space and do not have to fit perfectly together or require high tolerances. So even if the bend radius of the plates are slightly off in some examples, they would still fit the case.

Also notice the expensive folding design of the original 4704 bottom inner assembly has been altered to an XT or AT style bend of the plate, and the interior case features have been corrected to fit the design.

f62 1.jpg (220.14 KiB) Viewed 8973 times

f62 2 - clear coat style.jpg (114.1 KiB) Viewed 8973 times

f62 3 - inside.jpg (260.08 KiB) Viewed 8973 times

f62 4 - perspective.jpg (195.48 KiB) Viewed 8973 times

f62 5 - inside.jpg (304.34 KiB) Viewed 8973 times

f77 wireframe side profile.jpg (307.2 KiB) Viewed 8973 times

[andrewjoy]

they look so cool.

Will you offer an industrial grey option ? RAL 7030 is the closest i know of.

[rindorbrot]

I'd possibly be interested in an F77.

[Ellipse]

Yes I hope to offer it in a few finishes like RAL 7030 Gray, black, clear coat, etc.

[livingspeedbump]

If you can actually get manufacturers to produce the various individual parts (PCB, barrel plate, barrels, flippers, etc.), I think it only makes sense to offer the individual parts for sale to help mitigate fixed costs and meet MOQs.

This is a solid idea.

[XMIT]

Keep up the good work and I may have to add an F62 to my order.

I do hope the cost comes down a bit. Just to put this in perspective: the Keyboardio Model 01 - milled wooden case, unique key caps, brand new design, years in the making - is $299 for Kickstarter backers.

If you can manage to sell this as an aftermarket replacement for folks who are still looking for 4704 parts you may have yourself a nice market here.

[Muirium]

There's a right old smorgasbord of overpriced custom projects out there for people to go silly over. (Good grief, those $1000 caps the other day.) Thankfully, Ellipse hasn't mentioned Kickstarter or Massdrop, so there's a chance some of us in Europe might be able to afford this tasty project. Bear in mind just how hard we're screwed for import taxes. Heavy stuff typically attracts more of them. I still ache from what happened with the original Kishsavers!

[hammelgammler]

There's a right old smorgasbord of overpriced custom projects out there for people to go silly over. (Good grief, those $1000 caps the other day.) Thankfully, Ellipse hasn't mentioned Kickstarter or Massdrop, so there's a chance some of us in Europe might be able to afford this tasty project. Bear in mind just how hard we're screwed for import taxes. Heavy stuff typically attracts more of them. I still ache from what happened with the original Kishsavers!

Oh well yeah, i would appreciate to not be killed by customs.

[Ellipse]

XMIT - with a lot more interest the price will go down. With not even 50 units of each ordered so far I don't expect to benefit from economies of scale just yet like on the kickstarter projects you mentioned.

Tooling is the most expensive part. The case is not a block of wood - it is a difficult design and many places have turned down the design for being too complicated for their CNC machines or too low qty for die casting to be cost effective. If tooling costs $25,000 (one of the offers I received), you need at least a few hundred orders to bring the price down to the other kickstarter type projects.

I am still hoping to get it to $350.

[Ellipse]

How many people would prefer to order their F62 or an extra F62 with the HHKB style fn key and shorter right shift key? This would be a permanent alteration - you can never use a standard right shift key from a model m on your F62 if it is modified for right fn.

With this layout I would need to move the barrel and create a slightly different PCB. To be fair I would have to pass along tooling costs and PCB costs for this shorter run. It would probably be $25 extra if only 5 to 10 people are interested, and less if more people want it for their F62. Please let me know if you haven't already.

[Muirium]

I'd go HHKB style for sure. It would be the #1 improvement to the Kishsaver that I'm looking for.

But to be perfectly honest with you, I'm highly price conscious. (Perennially short of cash.) So I can't guarantee I'd get this even if it does hit your best projection. It would easily be the most expensive board I've ever bought. My Kishsaver was something like half that. Not your fault of course, but I better be realistic.

[tootallforthis]

I'd go HHKB style for sure. It would be the #1 improvement to the Kishsaver that I'm looking for.

But to be perfectly honest with you, I'm highly price conscious. (Perennially short of cash.) So I can't guarantee I'd get this even if it does hit your best projection. It would easily be the most expensive board I've ever bought. My Kishsaver was something like half that. Not your fault of course, but I better be realistic.

+1 Easily the most expensive single board I would buy.

[Khers]

I'd go HHKB given the option!

[spopepro]

the option for the short right shift/fn key make this more interesting. Is the recommendation then to just get a blank "caps lock" key and use that for R Shift?

[Muirium]

Unicomp can print them with "Shift" if you like. And then there's that guy on Etsy with the awesome custom dyesub process…

[spopepro]

Unicomp can print them with "Shift" if you like. And then there's that guy on Etsy with the awesome custom dyesub process…

I don't think "awesome guy" has a printing jig for anything other than 1u keycaps. I could be wrong.

But, yes, the temptation for outfitting a new F62 in dye-sub APL caps... But that would make this an *expensive* project...

But maybe worth it none the less...

[wcass]

it would not have to be 1.75 (stepped) + 1.
it could be 1.5 (non-stepped) + 1.25.
but it would have to be one or the other.

[Madhias]

I would go because of the caps with a normal version then!

+1 Easily the most expensive single board I would buy.

It's a lot of money, but somehow I don't think it is expensive though! It is a small run industrial made keyboard out of metal (and not wood), I would not expect it to be much cheaper. Maybe when it is bad quality, but that we do not want?

[Nuum]

I'd be much more interested in a version with a short right shift+fn, both 1.5u + 1.25u or 1.75u (stepped) +1u.

[Ellipse]

For those who want the HHKB right fn key style:

There will be an extra pad on the PCB so you can split the right shift key into two keys.

Is it OK to use a stepped caps lock style key and a 1U function key in place of the right shift key? That way you can use both the original big right shift or the split shift without a different PCB and top inner assembly.

[Muirium]

I don't understand: how can we use both? The stock 2.75u right Shift demands a 1u mount on the left, not the right.

Edit: oh of course you mean the PCB can support both. Excellent!

I do indeed much prefer the split as 1.75+1u (stepped Shift) too. All the better for PCB compatibility.

[pyrelink]

I like both 1.5u+1.25u or 1.75u stepped+1u, and would be fine with either.

[Ellipse]

Muirium posted a photo in another thread of the split right shift that is possible with a Model M or Model F - in case anyone was interested in seeing a photo. The small key is on the left barrel of the right shift, and the caps lock sized key is on the right barrel of the right shift key when split.

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/ibm ... ml#p155379

[Muirium]

Yeah, that split is exactly what we in the HHKB style club want to reverse. Fn on the outside. The inside is horrible, I tried it and could not adapt.

[Khers]

Does anyone happen to know whether the 1.75u (I guess) right shift keys from JIS layout model Ms have the same stem position as a stepped 1.75u.

[Muirium]

Excellent point Khers! They absolutely should be the ideal non-stepped 1.75u Shift that we're looking for.

Just now I pulled the right 2.75u Shift off my SSK and popped on the stepped 1.75u Caps Lock key. It works just fine in that outer position. But it's stepped, of course, and not what the HHKB inclined among us really want. But the barrel positions are fixed between JIS, ISO and ANSI Model Ms and Fs. (A fact I use to the hilt on my Kishsaver and AT.) I bet that cap is the ideal right Shift for an HHKB style custom like this!

Besides, I want the little spacebar too… better get collecting JIS!

[Khers]

Intriguing! Now where do we find a bunch of JIS Model Ms? GB from Japan maybe?

[wcass]

That cap does have the same stem position. BUT, Unicomp will only sell that key with the JIS full set. It is not available any other way. Believe me, I tried.

[Khers]

Oh, Unicomp