F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

[Ordinary Witch]

One way to add them is to change the two right side ground holes to 2 columns as shown in the attachment

Where would those GND holes go? I do see other square holes in the PCB next to the rows and columns but I'm not sure which ones, if any, are GND instead of VCC.
If there is an existing set of GND holes, maybe it would be possible to reuse them?
To my mind it looks easier to make the controller a little wider to add the extra columns, but this is just me throwing out inexperienced armchair knowledge that might just be irrelevant. I don't wanna come across as if I have experience >.>

[Ordinary Witch]

Does anyone have feedback on specific changes to improve the project web site? I use wordpress and woocommerce so there are limitations on what is possible. Feel free to PM me if you'd prefer.

Off the top of my head, I don't have more than one minor style fix to contribute, but when viewing an image in the shop that fills the width of the monitor, the blue newsletter button on the left side covers the side of the image.

2023-04-10_00-59-43.png (52.12 KiB) Viewed 4832 times

Its z-index should be lower than the image lightbox, but it's currently set to be above everything:

2023-04-10_00-57-59.png (15.59 KiB) Viewed 4832 times

[Irving]

I am tempted to go for a Classic Style FSSK Model F Keyboard, ISO-DE Mac Layout. I understand how to order extra keys for that, like L/@ and ß/? and Cmd, Opt, Ctrl and F11-F13.

But I want to get some more technical answers/guidance - I cannot find a consolidated up to date documentation as to what it means setting the keyboard up to work with a modern Mac/Ventura.
And I would assume many non-Win/US-Ansi buyers would love to learn, too:

1.) Setup: As it is a windows keyboard firstly, what (if anything) needs to be done for the Mac Cmd, Opt, Ctr keys? Nothing, change the layout in MacOS settings, use QMK, ...? Same for the L//@, ß/? and the like. Where can I find a recent manual/documentation on this specifically?

2.) I see no Mac funtion key, but somewhere it is mentioned the right Ctrl key makes up for this. Could not the right blank key between Cmd and Opt act as funtion key? If yes: How can this be achieved?

3.) The funtion keys are purely F1, ... F13. I would love to have the Apple system functions and shortcust as well. Ellipse, is there a chance to buy that as a regular order? I mean, this is not region/language bound. Unicomp Model M for Mac shows how that would look like.

4.) Apart from the keycaps as mentioned in 3.: How are those functionalities then mapped so the keyboard controller sends the correct commands to the Mac, like exposé, brightness up/down, mute?

Any more specific guidance is much appreciated.

[sedevidi]

Off the top of my head, I don't have more than one minor style fix to contribute, but when viewing an image in the shop that fills the width of the monitor, the blue newsletter button on the left side covers the side of the image.

Generally speaking, I'd say that any browser display width other than desktop full-screen (1920px) is wrong. Menu bar on top, overlapping images, wrong vertical placement of top bar, etc.
Frankly, the top for me is the outstanding number of blocked items (uBlockOrigin), which is bad right after loading the page (a dozen), and turns to ugly after a few clicks (300+), and keeps growing each second when just having an open tab (965 blocked items on https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/blog/ just writing this).
Opening the developer tools on that single page just crashed my computer after 30MB+ downloads, 42 JS errors, 41 seconds displayed and a memory hog after a few minutes...
My advice : remove, remove, remove stuff, until perfection is reached...
That won't prevent me from appreciating your fine hardware skills!

[Ordinary Witch]

Opening the developer tools on that single page just crashed my computer after 30MB+ downloads, 42 JS errors, 41 seconds displayed and a memory hog after a few minutes...

Now that you say that, I noticed my CPU going to 100% and my memory usage climbing to like 4 gigabytes for that tab when I have the updates page open. Yeah, definitely needs fixing

[sedevidi]

I am tempted to go for a Classic Style FSSK Model F Keyboard, ISO-DE Mac Layout. I understand how to order extra keys for that, like L/@ and ß/? and Cmd, Opt, Ctrl and F11-F13.

But I want to get some more technical answers/guidance - I cannot find a consolidated up to date documentation as to what it means setting the keyboard up to work with a modern Mac/Ventura.
And I would assume many non-Win/US-Ansi buyers would love to learn, too:

I'd say that much of what you describe are just QMK settings. I'd begin with the QMK documentation
Any keyboard just sends keycodes when keys are pressed. QMK just maps physical buttons to keycodes, even tough QMK shows keycodes as letters, number and signs. Then the computer translates the keycodes to characters, depending on the mapping (QWERTZ, AZERTY, etc.) you're using.
You will use QMK to setup standard or Mac-specific keycodes for any key.
Fn is a bit special, in that it will tell the keyboard controller to switch to another layer of keycodes. Fn won't send a keycode to the computer by itself. You place the Fn function on any button you want. Ellipse placed it on right-Ctrl, which I find weird.
I personally installed the QMK Vial firmware, in order to quickly and dynamically setup the keyboard as I wanted: change the button setting, and it's working. Very pleasant. Once you're happy with your settings, you can save the config, convert it for another firmware and flash it. But why bother...

[Ordinary Witch]

But I want to get some more technical answers/guidance - I cannot find a consolidated up to date documentation as to what it means setting the keyboard up to work with a modern Mac/Ventura.

I'm not a mac user and thus can't help further than this, but I'd like to add to sedevidi's answer that there currently aren't any official manuals or even finalized firmware for the newly introduced keyboards (including the FSSK) from what I can tell. Some of them aren't even in stock yet. Like sedevidi said, the QMK documentation is a good first pick for help.
You can also make plans for how you want to lay the keyboard out in QMK, but no official keyboard definition or default layout for it currently exists in the beta configurator.

[Irving]

But I want to get some more technical answers/guidance - I cannot find a consolidated up to date documentation as to what it means setting the keyboard up to work with a modern Mac/Ventura.

… there currently aren't any official manuals or even finalized firmware for the newly introduced keyboards (including the FSSK) from what I can tell. Some of them aren't even in stock yet…

Thanks sedevidi and Ordinary Witch.

So, is it a bet I or anyone else have to make due to the firmware pending. On top, there is the risk of getting it wrong. I would feel saver if it were not like this - quite some money for such a bet. :-/
Do not get me wrong, incredible work recreating all the parts and electronics including QM plus logistics.
But some more guard rails on the layout would be just better.

[Ellipse]

Ordinary Witch there are several ground holes connecting the controller to the large capacitive PCB. They are not all necessary, but just carry over from the IBM original controller and original xwhatsit controller designs.

Ordinary Witch thanks for letting me know about that error I did some looking around and have not found a way to adjust the z-index for the omnisend plugin.

Irving kindly see my replies below:
1. I belive you can just adjust the Mac OS Keyboard settings to let Mac OS know which keys you want to use for the various Mac functions. Karabiner can also be used.

2. Yes, any key can be changed to the function key, but you will need to update the firmware by following the QMK / Vial instructions on the project web site.

3. Yes, there are various Apple-specific keys available for each international language key set as well as on the Extra Keys page.

4. One way this is achieved is through function layers programmed in the firmware. See the firmware video in the manual for additional details.

Irving no one should be concerned that the firmware will not work with Mac-specific keyboard functions for the new models. You can check the current QMK configurator beta page for the current Model F keyboards (F77, for example) to see that various Mac functions are factory configured into the firmware, such as media buttons, power, eject, etc. These functions are available on all Model F keyboards.

sedevidi thanks for the feedback. I have paginated the blog.

[Ellipse]

QMK issue:

I am trying to create a 16x8 blank firmware for the purpose of using the QMK debugging tools to get an accurate matrix for the new keyboard models, by pressing each key pad one time from left to right, top to bottom row.

I tried to follow the details in these links:
https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blo ... q_debug.md
https://www.reddit.com/r/modelm/comment ... formation/

When I enabled the debug settings noted above, I got the following error:
tmk_core/protocol/usb_descriptor.h:299:6: error: #error There are not enough available endpoints to support all functions. Please disable one or more of the following: Mouse Keys, Extra Keys, Console, NKRO, MIDI, Serial, Steno

And when I disabled the debug settings, I got the following:
Generating: .build/obj_xwhatsit_brand_new_model_f_16x8_full_testing_wcass/src/info_config.h [OK]
Generating: .build/obj_xwhatsit_brand_new_model_f_16x8_full_testing_wcass/src/layouts.h [OK]
Generating: .build/obj_xwhatsit_brand_new_model_f_16x8_full_testing_wcass/src/default_keyboard.c [OK]
Generating: .build/obj_xwhatsit_brand_new_model_f_16x8_full_testing_wcass/src/default_keyboard.h [OK]
Compiling: keyboards/xwhatsit/matrix.c [OK]
Compiling: keyboards/xwhatsit/util_comm.c [OK]
Compiling: keyboards/xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/16x8_full_testing/wcass/wcass.c In file included from keyboards/xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/16x8_full_testing/wcass/wcass.c:17:0:
keyboards/xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/16x8_full_testing/wcass/wcass.h:31:11: error: duplicate macro parameter "KC_NO"
KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, \

I have attached the test files. Any ideas? I am using a known good older QMK and I was able to compile the old F77 hex files fine.

[wolfman]

I had success compiling Matthew Wolf's repo

Sammy, Thank you for testing the compile of my version of the QMK firmware what is using the older API from around November 2022.


Update for getting getting the newest version of QMK working. There are changes to the API. Once I updated for the new API. The F77 the left side keypad does not register. There is also an issue with the right most key on the bottom row. I will provide an update once I get all the key working.

[Ordinary Witch]

keyboards/xwhatsit/brand_new_model_f/16x8_full_testing/wcass/wcass.h:31:11: error: duplicate macro parameter "KC_NO"
KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, \

I looked at wcass/wcass.h, and I can say with confidence that this isn't valid C preprocessor code:

Code: Select all

#define LAYOUT_all( \
    KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, \
    KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, \
    KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, \
    KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, \
    KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, \
    KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, \
    KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, \
    KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO \
) \
{ \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO }, \
}

The reason is that it's defining KC_NO as an argument to the LAYOUT_all macro over and over again, hence the "duplicate macro parameter" error.
To make this macro valid, you'll have to replace the first section of KC_NOs (these are the macro parameters) with an equal amount of uniquely named identifiers, like so:

Code: Select all

#define LAYOUT_all( \
	a0,b0,c0,d0,e0,f0,g0,h0,i0,j0,k0,l0,m0,n0,o0,p0, \
	a1,b1,c1,d1,e1,f1,g1,h1,i1,j1,k1,l1,m1,n1,o1,p1, \
	a2,b2,c2,d2,e2,f2,g2,h2,i2,j2,k2,l2,m2,n2,o2,p2, \
	a3,b3,c3,d3,e3,f3,g3,h3,i3,j3,k3,l3,m3,n3,o3,p3, \
	a4,b4,c4,d4,e4,f4,g4,h4,i4,j4,k4,l4,m4,n4,o4,p4, \
	a5,b5,c5,d5,e5,f5,g5,h5,i5,j5,k5,l5,m5,n5,o5,p5, \
	a6,b6,c6,d6,e6,f6,g6,h6,i6,j6,k6,l6,m6,n6,o6,p6, \
	a7,b7,c7,d7,e7,f7,g7,h7,i7,j7,k7,l7,m7,n7,o7,p7 \
) \
{ \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO }, \
}

I hope that's at least a little useful.

EDIT: alternatively you can just throw out all the parameters altogether and replace them with three dots:

Code: Select all

#define LAYOUT_all(...) \
{ \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO, }, \
    { KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO,KC_NO }, \
}

but then you can't assign the parameters (input matrix positions) to the output matrix positions.

[Ellipse]

Thanks Ordinary Witch - that worked to enable the firmware to compile.

I disabled the endpoints Mousekey, extrakey, and NKRO (set to "no") and now the firmware compiled correctly with the debug enabled. Trying to enable any of those 3 resulted in a compile that did not succeed. Attached are the updated files.

Unfortunately in my testing, keypresses are not recognized in hid_listen with this firmware running. It says Listening, so the keyboard was recognized by the utility. Should I manually set the threshold (if it is an auto threshold issue)?

[Ellipse]

The LED overlays arrived (just option 1) by air shipment and they are good quality. I checked one of my IBM Model M originals and they all look nice (photos of the overlays were posted earlier in this thread). It's tough to tell the original vs. new textures apart. I especially like the texture and how it slightly obscures the LEDs in the cut out areas, just like the originals (it's not a completely translucent piece of plastic)

This means that now the orders with overlays can proceed - first the Round 1 beam springs with overlays ordered and then the ultra compact (aka Round 1) Model F's with overlays ordered can go out (though I am waiting on the QMK firmware to be finalized for the new Model F options before they can ship so people don't have to reflash right away). This LED overlay batch was for 500. For the final batch of the remaining 4,500 overlays, I requested that they add a little more brown to the color of options 1, 5, and 9 and make the black printing a little more deeper black. Either way it is difficult to tell the new vs. original overlays but I want them to be as close as possible. Sorry but to keep things simple I won't accept requests for one batch or the other batch of overlays so please don't ask.

I added some case dimensions to the project site:

Approximate dimensions:
Classic F104: 486 x 210 x 22-40mm (front to back variance)
Classic FSSK: 400 x 210 x 22-40mm
Classic F122: 535 x 210 x 22-55mm

[Arkku]

2.) I see no Mac funtion key, but somewhere it is mentioned the right Ctrl key makes up for this. Could not the right blank key between Cmd and Opt act as funtion key? If yes: How can this be achieved?

If you want an actual Apple Fn key that is recognised as exactly equivalent to Apple's Fn, the keyboard firmware must lie and say that it is an Apple keyboard. For legal reasons this can't be done by default, so you need to compile a custom firmware that supports it. QMK also doesn't have the Apple Fn code by default, so you need to use patched source code. (My QMK fork has a branch with the Apple Fn patch applied, but you still need to change the USB vendor and product ids yourself, and this also breaks compatibility with all utilities.)

Likewise my AAKBD firmware supports Apple Fn, but I have not yet made support for the new new Model F keyboards (i.e., only the F62 and F77, which I have). I would of course like to support the others as well, but I can't buy every model just to test it, so need some volunteers who are technically capable.


If the above sounds daunting, there are alternatives: one is to simply create your own clone of the Fn key, by having the key momentarily toggle on a layer, where you create the Fn mappings. The downside is that the computer is then unaware of the Fn key being pressed, so you can't do anything like Fn + mouse click or double tap Fn.

Still, as others have mentioned, you can also use software solutions like Karabiner elements.

Personally I use the custom firmware solution, done so that a press of the key registers as Apple Fn being held down (so the double tap Fn and Fn + mouse shortcuts work), but Fn + another key combos are done in the keyboard itself (e.g., on the F62 pressing Fn + 1 sends F1, which the Apple Fn does not do because the keyboard model it pretends to be has physical F-keys).

[engr]

Hi Joe,

A few questions on the new Model F's:

1. For new new models (F104 in particular), will there be an option to buy an extra case separately, like for F77?

2. Will the LED overlays be available in colors other than grey (e.g., black overlay for a black case)?

3. Any updates on black pad-printed keys?

Thanks!

[Irving]

THANKS Arkku,

you are actually the first putting things into context, thanks so much!

This matches with the observances I made looking into the different githubs, too and explains matters.

Could you please let me know what you mean by 'breaking utilities'?

[Ellipse]

engr kindly see my replies below:
1. Yes, this is a store item called Extra Case. You can order all extra cases except for compact F104/compact FSSK which do not have any extra cases available.
2. Yes confirmed. You can see all overlays on the various product pages. The default (if you order an overlay without specifying which one) is the IBM default tan type color, regardless of keyboard color. If you prefer one of the other 12 options please order through the beam spring extras page, or click the LED overlay check mark when configuring the keyboard and specify which option you'd like.
3. Nope, they are still working on this. Not until I approve a good quality sample set can orders open, as noted earlier.

[Ellipse]

Here is a flush mount USB-C mod that seems to be non-destructive and fully reversible:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4972816

[StrangerCoug]

A couple questions (sorry if someone else has asked them before):

1.) Is it possible to buy individual keys from a layout instead of the whole set? I will likely use primarily the US ANSI layout but want to experiment with an ISO mod to see if I like it—if I can't buy the extra keys I'm interested in individually, I'll probably get a set of regular US keys and a set of Greek keys when I place my order (I have the Greek layout installed on my computer since it's among the languages I'm trying to learn). (Edited to add: I might want to grab an HHKB add-on set as well in that case, but I was planning on picking up some extra keys besides just the ones for the ISO mod either way.)
2.) Are symbolic Windows keys or a 1.0U version of the symbolic Menu key available? If not, do you know if I can buy them individually from Unicomp?

[Ellipse]

StrangerCoug:
1. Yep they are on the Extra Keys store page. You can buy extra US keys but not extra international-specific keys. If you order the US key set and the Greek key set then you get the ISO Enter key and shorter left shift as they would be included in the Greek set.
2. I have 1 1U Menu symbol key left I think and I have several 1U Windows keys from Unicomp that can be ordered from the Extra Keys page.

[StrangerCoug]

2. I have 1 1U Menu symbol key left I think and I have several 1U Windows keys from Unicomp that can be ordered from the Extra Keys page.

In what color(s) do you have them? Scratch that; I think it's safe to assume pebble.

[Irving]

3.) The funtion keys are purely F1, ... F13. I would love to have the Apple system functions and shortcust as well. Ellipse, is there a chance to buy that as a regular order? I mean, this is not region/language bound. Unicomp Model M for Mac shows how that would look like.

Ellipse, would you eventually consider to offer a complete set of up to date Mac keys? Just take a look at the funtion keys Unicomp plans to offer:
https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/graphics ... ements.pdf

[Ellipse]

I can add keys if someone is willing to design them and split the tooling charges among those interested. Please email me if anyone is interested in designing or ordering these keys.

[engr]

Do I understand correctly that the new F104 and F122 cases have mounting holes for the solenoid and solenoid controller (i.e., no need to use duct tape etc. like in F77)?

[Irving]

I can add keys if someone is willing to design them and split the tooling charges among those interested. Please email me if anyone is interested in designing or ordering these keys.

They cannot be sourced from Unicomp in, say pebble?

[Irving]

Ellipse,

Why is the Classic Style FSSK Model F keyboard not anodized but powder coated?

Would an anodized version not be an option, too?

[Ellipse]

The powdercoating better approximates the original Model M plastic texture which is why there will be no anodized classic style cases.

[Arkku]

Could you please let me know what you mean by 'breaking utilities'?

Ah, it simply means that utilities made specifically for these keyboards (such as pandrew's utility that allows you to check the capacitance levels of the keys) won't recognise it anymore, because they expect a certain keyboard but would also now be seeing an "Apple keyboard" (since you have to use an Apple keyboard's id to get Apple devices to recognise the Apple Fn key).

(However, firmware flashing will still work as long as you have another way to enter the bootloader mode, such as a keyboard shortcut or physically connecting the reset pads on the controller.)

[pandrew]

Disgusting practice by Apple, assuming there's no other way to achieve the same functionality, I wonder how come they haven't been sued about this.

I have no idea how apple keyboard function key is supposed to behave, since I don't have any apple computers, but Unicomp Spacesaver M keyboards (the ones made specifically for Mac) are configured like this:

https://config.qmk.fm/#/unicomp/spacesa ... LAYOUT_all

Or the equivalent .c keymap here: https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blo ... t/keymap.c

As far as I could tell I have accurately reproduced what Unicomp Spacesaver M keyboards do on the above default keymap. However I never tested this on a mac. (The SpaceSaverM behaves weird on a PC, and I tried to reproduce the exact same weird behaviour with this keymap, and I think I succeeded) Some of those keycode names may be confusing, cause maybe they are interpreted differently on a mac. So you should correlate the above keycodes with a picture of a real spacesaver M and see what legends are printed on equivalent keys: For example F14 and F15 might be the keycodes that result in brightness adjustment:
https://www.pckeyboard.com/mm5/graphics ... W4ZP4A.jpg

And on the spacesaver M, pressing the Fn key usually makes the keyboard behave more like a normal PC keyboard, see layer 1. (Note that I have added EEPROM_Reset, Reset, and Debug keycodes to Fn+letters(E,R,D), that's my addition, but the rest tries to copy the Spacesaver M behaviour accurately.

What you won't see on the default keymap is that there is one more thing that's special about the spacesaver M. It only has two leds. And one of those
lights up any time the function key is pressed, and this feature is implemented here:
https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blo ... mpad_1xb.c

Let me know if this helps you Mac users at all.