F104+SSK+122+62+77+50+Ergo orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

setiawan

25 Aug 2024, 09:10

Ellipse wrote:
13 Aug 2024, 10:14
Here's a nice photo from reddit showing a setup with the Industrial Gray F77 Model F keyboard - another great looking desktop setup!

https://www.reddit.com/r/battlestations ... behind_my/
That would be mine ;)

I’ve been wondering whether there would be any audible effect by applying sound deadening to the underside of the “bottom plate”. I’ve already floss modded and I’m interested in further reducing noise. Is there significant resonance coming from this plate?

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Ellipse

25 Aug 2024, 21:04

Model F bluetooth project success!  Please see the below link - last year someone got their new Model F working with bluetooth.  I have asked the project creator to provide a tutorial and more details.

https://www.reddit.com/r/modelm/comment ... othed_new/

There are also two other projects not specific to the Model F that may work but are currently not tested with the Model F:

https://handheldsci.com/kb/

https://sterling-key.com/

setiawan thanks again for sharing your new setup! I posted in the project web site blog about an untested PCB tape mod that may also reduce the sound but I cannot recommend trying it; please keep everyone posted if you do any mods and let us know of their results!

Ellipse

29 Aug 2024, 21:21

Project update:

The container ship arrived at port this week! They are now arranging the trucking for hopefully next week if they are available. As always the first Classic F104 and Classic FSSK keyboards to go out will be those who supported the project a little extra with the low serial/skip the line option, and then it will go out in sequence of when each order was submitted, with the earliest orders going out first. There are many orders to go out so it may take a month or so if all goes well. There is still time to send through an upgrade by placing a new order and picking free shipping at checkout to avoid additional shipping charges.

New Old Stock IBM F50 stash update:

I have just sent out emails to the winners of the first round. As a reminder you can still be selected for a future round; please head over to the product page and click the Google Forms link to submit your NOS F50 bid. If you submit soon I will try to get you in for the current round, if the bid is accepted.

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... t-6019273/

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1QVkCcH ... lHRdxBT1Q/

Ellipse

06 Sep 2024, 03:03

The first of two truckloads of new F104 and FSSK keyboards arrived today! The new boxes are good so far and arrived in good shape. They are a little bigger and stack much more nicely. The foam end caps are also custom to fit the F104 and FSSK profile (this way, the same caps can be used for both models. The F122 required different outside foam pieces).

I have ordered extra classic case style F104 and FSSK keyboards so that everyone can still add an order in now and get the keyboard with the current batch.

Today I also sent out email reminders to everyone to confirm the delivery address - please check the junk folder if you do not see it.

Ellipse

07 Sep 2024, 03:09

The second of two truckloads arrived today. Everything appears to have arrived safe and sound!

In terms of the timeline from here, I cannot estimate the timeline for any specific order but you will receive an email with a tracking number once your order is all done.

The current shipment also contains all of the beam spring MX key sets and the transparent relegendable MX keys.

Hopefully around year end the next container ship will be here or on its way here for the next batch, which will contain the F122 and beam spring keyboards.
Last edited by Ellipse on 12 Oct 2024, 21:32, edited 1 time in total.

Ellipse

09 Sep 2024, 02:33

And now we have the first photos of the keyboards after they have all been stored and organized! This week shipping is expected to start, with the low serials first.
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jsahmiens

09 Sep 2024, 04:40

gotta say, that's impressive.

nac5605

09 Sep 2024, 12:59

I got my F62 in last week, it's a beaut...

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wobbled

09 Sep 2024, 13:54

Must be some strong ass boxes to be able to stack that high without the bottom ones getting crushed

Ellipse

09 Sep 2024, 17:59

Nice photos nac5605! I like the lighting especially.

OmerFlame2

09 Sep 2024, 21:15

So now that the F104/FSSK keyboards are slowly shipping out, what's your next plan? Will you keep selling more F104/FSSK keyboards or start working on a new keyboard design?

Regardless, I'm really excited to finally get my F104!! I've been anticipating it and it's finally happening soon!

Ellipse

09 Sep 2024, 21:34

Next is to approve the beam spring samples, finish the F122 assembly, and some small batch projects like an updated split ortho and Planck style boards, both with Rico's Leyden Jar controller (I hope for UART communication between split halves and PS2 support for the Leyden Jar controller which was being looked into).

The most important thing though is to try to get the word out about these old style keyboards that have already been made - if anyone can help that would be great! Many of the earlier projects' reviewers are waiting for a new model to be sent out.

Any other next ideas?
Last edited by Ellipse on 11 Sep 2024, 21:07, edited 1 time in total.

latemodel24

10 Sep 2024, 00:14

unsaver

kmnov2017

10 Sep 2024, 12:10

Classic case F107 and F50

M case F50

latemodel24

10 Sep 2024, 14:13

A custom f87 would be cool, something between a f77 and f107. Not original but it would be a very good middle ground for keyboard to desk size.

minimal

10 Sep 2024, 21:31

Ellipse wrote:
09 Sep 2024, 21:34
...
Any other next ideas?
Okay, I'll throw something a bit wild out there, since you asked for ideas:

How about a cap buckling spring KB with room for a small computer to be mounted inside (Pi or similar), complete with a standard (or minimal) I/O shield, passive cooling, and a PC speaker? I would think that the inner assembly could remain much the same, but the case would need some additional depth and height maybe towards the back with some vent along the top. (The TRS-80 COCO 2 comes to mind.)

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thefarside

11 Sep 2024, 03:29

Here’s another idea: a flat plate buckling spring keyboard with specialized sliders or stems that accept cherry caps and a plastic case.

latemodel24

11 Sep 2024, 14:20

I know the fssk already exists, but a more modern high end tkl style fssk. Something that looks like a high end custom board. Should only require a case redesign.

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nihilist000

12 Sep 2024, 10:30

+1 for a classic case F107/4704-400. Ideally with an ISO option and cases in beige and red.

del20nd

12 Sep 2024, 16:20

I'd love to see a self contained, modular capacitive buckling spring switch design which can be plugged into some kind of standardized circuit board mount, which could feasibly be designed around by a determined hobbyist with an engineering background, using something like PCBWay. That's probably a huge ask (not easy to design, possibly cannibalizing sales) and I have no idea how feasible it is in the real world, but it would be neat to see.

It would allow for weird one-off designs that aren't necessarily viable to stand up a production line up for to exist.

Ellipse

12 Sep 2024, 19:33

Please keep the ideas going!

With permission, I wanted to share another nice setup with a custom coiled USB cable and a powered USB switcher hub that appears to be working well with the F77 (unpowered hubs tend to cause issues). The coiled cable adds a nice touch.

"The mouse is a Lofree PBT Touch, I coiled the cable myself (wrap tightly around wooden dowel, secure with masking tape, treat with a heat gun), and the hub is actually a USB 3 switch to toggle between my PC and Mac. Made by RSH Tech"
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JLan

12 Sep 2024, 21:16

Ellipse wrote:
09 Sep 2024, 21:34
Next is to approve the beam spring samples, finish the F122 assembly, and some small batch projects like an updated split ortho and Planck style boards, both with Rico's Leyden Jar controller (I hope for UART communication between split halves and PS2 support for the Leyden Jar controller which was being looked into).

The most important thing though is to try to get the word out about these old style keyboards that have already been made - if anyone can help that would be great! Many of the earlier projects' reviewers are waiting for a new model to be sent out.

Any other next ideas?
Would the updated ortholinear with the updated controller appear like one keyboard to the host computer (i.e., would it be usable on Mac without Karabiner)?

Ellipse

13 Sep 2024, 05:37

Yes, Rico noted that it should be possible to power everything with one USB cable to the computer, and then a 4 pin cable can both power and communicate with the other keyboard half through UART. The 4 pin cable would be the only connection to the second half; a USB cable would not be needed for the second keyboard half.

Everyone please feel free to contact Rico if you are able to help with the UART communication, the PS/2 daughterboard project, and/or BLE / RF wireless part of the Leyden Jar controller. Or maybe it would be better to connect a regular USB wireless keyboard device to the Leyden Jar instead of connecting a BLE module by serial / UART. See links from my earlier post viewtopic.php?p=520349#p520349

kmnov2017

13 Sep 2024, 09:39

Some time ago stats were published on the number of orders by country. It'll be great if an update can be shared...

Ellipse

18 Sep 2024, 06:34

I have finished taking photos of some of the new F104 and FSSK variations. I will soon be uploading to the project web site.

Full-resolution photos can be viewed at this imgur album link: https://imgur.com/a/EIebi75

The first photos in the album are the F104, followed by the FSSK, and finally the most recent beam spring B104 sample.

Below are a few F104 samples:
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Last edited by Ellipse on 19 Sep 2024, 01:12, edited 1 time in total.

genericusername57

18 Sep 2024, 09:11

Nice! The beamspring sample looks great

OmerFlame2

18 Sep 2024, 21:14

Good heavens, they look fantastic!! I'm so hyped for mine.

NathanA

19 Sep 2024, 14:37

Hola, everybody. I've been -- as the kids say -- "AFK" for a while, dealing with personal/health issues when not working the day job. Such is life. I can tell you I'd much rather be here. ;)

If I had been here, then perhaps I could have responded to this post sooner:
setiawan wrote:
17 Jul 2024, 16:15
I have numpad layout number 4 pictured below:

<snip>

Is there a way to get the numlock layer to work like depicted on my keys?

<snip>

I’ve only started using Vial tonight, but i don’t see any obvious way of catering to this use case. Do i have to create a toggle layer to act as num lock?
Yes.

This had already been done for you, though, in the most recently published version of the Vial firmware (from back in February).

You just either needed to flash with one of the "f77-ansi_fn_opt4_*" keymaps, or load that keymap into your keyboard using Vial if you're already running r5 firmware.

Both variants of the keymap put the "Num Lock" layer on layer 1, and the "Fn" layer on layer 2.

Since the sheer quantity of F77 variants was careening out of control, I only ever shipped a keymap for Option 4 that assumes you have an HHKB-style split Right Shift. If you don't, then you can still use this keymap file, but you will need to go to the Layout tab in Vial, set Split Right Shift to "No Split", then go back to the keymap and change the Right Shift key from MO(2) to RShift (and relocate MO(2), which is effectively the Fn key, to your key of choice).
setiawan wrote:
17 Jul 2024, 16:15
Only difference is the OS obviously cannot recognise that num lock is enabled since it is not a real num lock, but not quite a big deal i suppose.
Support for having Num Lock status trigger with the layer switch is also included in this firmware.

There are two variants of the F77 "opt4" keymap provided:
  • The "simulock" one uses a standard layer toggle TG(1) programmed into the spot for the Num Lock key, which is how I assume you did it.
  • The "nlock" one programs the Num Lock key to actually be real Num Lock, and when Num Lock is on, layer 1 is selected, and when it's off, layer 0 is selected.
The Num Lock based layer triggering, though, isn't automatically enabled simply by loading the "nlock" .vil file into the keyboard with Vial. It is automatically enabled if you re-flash the entire keyboard firmware again, however, and have it preload the "nlock" keymap variant in at flashing time.

This is because the Num Lock layer switching is not a standard QMK or Vial feature, so the Vial app has no clue it even exists. As a result, though there is a way to toggle the feature on and off without reflashing the whole firmware, it's slightly convoluted: What you need to do is pick a spare key (I'd recommend some unused key on layer 2) and assign it the custom keycode 0x5DFE. Pressing that key will then turn the Num Lock layer switch feature on and off. There is no visual indication of its current status, so the only way to know if it is working is to test it. It is persistent, though, so you don't need to re-enable it every single time you plug the keyboard in. (This was all described / explained in more detail in my posts from late September 2023, FWIW.) If you plan to leave it enabled indefinitely, you can simply assign 0x5DFE to some key temporarily, press that key to enable, then immediately delete that key assignment.
mikem wrote:
28 Jul 2024, 13:55
setiawan wrote:
17 Jul 2024, 16:15
How about the "00" key, would that simply have to be a macro? I don't think I've ever seen a keyboard with "00" before actually, I wonder if there is even a standardised key code for it
It does indeed have a code in the USB standard
This unfortunately doesn't mean much. From the QMK source code (tmk_core/common/keycode.h):

Code: Select all

  // ***************************************************************
  // These keycodes are present in the HID spec, but are           *
  // nonfunctional on modern OSes. QMK uses this range (0xA5-0xDF) *
  // for the media and function keys instead - see below.          *
  // ***************************************************************

  KC_KP_00                = 0xB0,
So, "KP_00" (or keypad 00) is not transmitted by QMK-based boards. Instead, that code value has been repurposed for a media key (KC_MEDIA_EJECT, by the looks of it). Even if there was a way to get QMK firmware to transmit that 00 code, there would have to be support for that keycode at the OS level, and at least if that comment text is to be believed, virtually no "modern OSes" support it.

So, yes: it has to be a macro.

NathanA

19 Sep 2024, 14:44

engr wrote:
04 Jul 2024, 22:46
Not sure if anyone has encountered it before, but Malwarebytes thinks that the F77 utility (pandrew-util-for-vial_r4.exe) is a malware (Malware.Heuristic.2513). Ellipse, you may want to check to make sure the the version on your web site is clean, and if so, contact Malwarebytes so they update their databases and stop flagging it.
Please check the latest build (r5, from February).

NathanA

19 Sep 2024, 15:01

Ellipse asked me a question which in turn has piqued my curiosity about something.

The new Classic FSSK and F104 keyboards represent the first time that a F-style keyboard with a full top function row has been offered alongside a full "HHKB" option (one with both a split Right Shift and original Backspace split & relocated).

If you bought or are planning to buy either a Classic-style FSSK or F104, and you picked the "HHKB-Style Split Right Shift and Split Backspace" layout, what do you intuitively expect the key to the left of '1' on the number row to do when you press it?:
  • output the ` character
  • transmit Esc
In other words, did you pick the full HHKB option (as opposed to just the split Right Shift) because you are a HHKB layout die-hard, or did you pick it for another reason?

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