deskthority

Therehas been some progress. I am currently figuring out what finishes to offer, how small the details can be and the stem fitting. The fitting was just a bit to tight with the ones I just got.

Below is some copy paste from before GH went down. Some questions and answers are still gone though. Feel free to ask, perhaps some of the people who were interested will find their way back. Below is a wall of text that might explain things a bit. The TL;DR version is that I have the possibility to print keys in way overkill pure titanium alloy and blah blah, now for some images of ideas that were posted in the GH thread.

Key Caps IBM Spacebar Textured

Originally Posted by damorgue

Originally Posted by Djuzuh
Can you give a number on what you call very large quantities and what you call not unreasonable-cheap?

I don't want to make promises that later can't be kept, and keep in mind I was referring to very large production series. In these very large numbers, they could come down to single digits per key.

Edit: Unless you all start buying full sets at an incredible rate, these numbers are unfortunately unreachable.

Originally Posted by damorgue

Originally Posted by Djuzuh
But you will have to make a lot more different models, with fewer quantity of each model.

Won't this drive the price up?

It seems like there is some confusion regarding additive manufacturing. Take normal 2d printing on paper for instance. Is there a cost difference between printing a page with 10 letter A's compared to printing a page with 10 different letters on it? Nope (There may be a slight difference in the amount of ink used, but that is negligible. There is also the time it takes to type 10 different letters which is longer than to copy the A's, although still negligible as well)

Our scenario is similar in many ways. Our paper costs more, and so does the ink. But making the machine print 10 blank keycaps or 10 different keycaps make virtually no difference. What differs in their cost is the difference in amount material used, which is close to none if the keys are even remotely similar. The other is the time it takes to make the digital models of the different variations, which I did not intend to charge for. Since these variations are in digital form, it is quite easy to multiply the model and just change the letter for instance.

In the other thread asking about additive manufacturing. I tried to explain it:

If it was to be simplified, they need two things:
A) If you were to place the object you want to print in a box, what would the dimensions of that box be?
B) The physical volume/weight of the part.

As you may understand, Two L-shaped parts can be printed so that their boxes overlap. Analogy to a normal paper printer: objects take up a certain amount of ink and surface estate on the paper. It is very advantageous if the pieces can be arranged so that they stack. This would take up less area of the paper and more can be printed on that paper.

To add to this, I can say that SLA and SLS plastics are not very hard. They withstand a lot of deformation without fractures but don't take much force to deform. Keys made by these methods is viable though. Cases would be a bit expensive because of the dimensions that the build would have to be, even though the physical volume of the case would be little since it is thin and mostly empty. Affordable to some of you still though.

To simplify, pretty much anything can be made. Also, I won't be telling to much because of NDA's, so there is a chance that I won't answer some questions.

Reserved for excel sheet that was up on GH

We're still waiting on the prototype and on the order thread .

Djuzuh wrote:We're still waiting on the prototype and on the order thread .

x2

Where did you find all the dimensions for the spacebar? Like stem placement, overall size, angles.....

Whoah, that 3D 'textured' example is so over the top, reminded me of:

I don't think we need stuff so tall. But it is cool that it could be possible... can I have an entire keyset that resembles Han Solo in carbonite... lol.

Still seriously interested in ansi enter and 6.25 space bar, plain/blank in Cherry profile.

Universal spacebar FTW! I've been fundraising here already. Cherry profile would be a big plus in my book as well.

lysol wrote:can I have an entire keyset that resembles Han Solo in carbonite... lol.

X2

I am interested in x6.25 space bar and an ANSI enter key preferably Cherry profile.

Do you have a photo of a sample? I wonder what the color would be.

And what is price range like?

Hmm, I wonder if I could print these with the text as holes straight through the top of the cap, and then seal them from above and lay them upside down. Pour in some polyester resin and you got yourself a double shot titanium/translucent cap.

The_Beast wrote:Where did you find all the dimensions for the spacebar? Like stem placement, overall size, angles.....

My own measurements and:
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Space_bar#6 ... m_apart.29

Most of all measurements I got with a caliper. I hadn't realized until I started measuring the caps that the sides are not flat at all. You can try this by putting the sides of two caps together and they will wobble against each other.

lysol wrote:Whoah, that 3D 'textured' example is so over the top, reminded me of:
http://gadgetsin.com/uploads/2011/06/ke ... tter_1.jpg
I don't think we need stuff so tall. But it is cool that it could be possible... can I have an entire keyset that resembles Han Solo in carbonite... lol.

Still seriously interested in ansi enter and 6.25 space bar, plain/blank in Cherry profile.

There were at least three people who really wanted a cthulhu. I didn't model those keys though, I found the models. I didn't want to spend all day sculpting stuff. Text and somewhat flat symbols are much easier.

what will be prices?

you still need some keys to work from right? if you do, email me what you need and i'll get them to you.

Depends what keys you want. I don't have any filco-size, only cherry dmc or whatever that profile is called. I have no topre either but I do have IBM. We'll see about that once I get these ones to work, I appreciate the offer though.

Quote.........I have no topre either but I do have IBM

******************************************

Very nice- that will be welcomed!

I guess there is no chance of ever doing any in ALPS? Would be a nice dresser to an old board.

I will take a Model M space bar if nothing else.
if you do them that is 0.o?

if not then a cherry sized space bar.

absolutely...........space bar here too for Model M-

sign me up

terrpn wrote:Quote.........I have no topre either but I do have IBM

******************************************

Very nice- that will be welcomed!

I guess there is no chance of ever doing any in ALPS? Would be a nice dresser to an old board.

I sold the alps board I had. The fitting if everything is the hard part. IBM spacebars are not caps, are they? I think they have the sliders included. That would make them difficult if that is the case. Correct me if I am wrong here.

Edit: I will work on getting the MX ones right for now.

I got a couple more printed, this time with better stems and will probably put some pics up tomorrow.

No problem......a lot of us would be thrilled with whatever you could provide!

IBM? Have never removed my space bar yet- I believe it is all just 1 piece vs 2. I think ripster had a link on it over on GH, but do we have to go there:>} ?

Just count me in! Will go real nice with my Bio-hazard mods once they come on.

damorgue wrote:

terrpn wrote:Quote.........I have no topre either but I do have IBM

******************************************

Very nice- that will be welcomed!

I guess there is no chance of ever doing any in ALPS? Would be a nice dresser to an old board.

I sold the alps board I had. The fitting if everything is the hard part. IBM spacebars are not caps, are they? I think they have the sliders included. That would make them difficult if that is the case. Correct me if I am wrong here.

Edit: I will work on getting the MX ones right for now.

Cherry profile!

Here are some pics of my tests. The circular pattern on the top will be fixed. I am looking for someone to try electropolishing and/or anodizing. Most companies electropolish stainless steel. Found a couple abroad etc. still not quite there yet, so keep that in mind. Also, the cherry text was not deep enough and as such isn't very clear. I used font which may have been a bit to thin.
I made a block with stem fittings of increasing size to find the perfect one. The alrger hole to the left could give some slight wobble, and the one to the right might damage the stem slightly and make future caps not fit perfectly. The one selected in this iamge seems about right.

Very nice progress so far! Cannot wait to see more

Looking pretty good for firsts, keep refining a little and sure you will have hot seller.

I see now that I picked a key with a different profile than my printed keys, as the reference in the photos. Didn't think that through.

Looks pretty good. How did you model the 1x1 keys? Did you measure them yourself or did you find something online?


I know a guy with a CNC and some spare time, I would love to see if he could make some aluminum key caps. BTW are the 1x1 keys you currently have Cherry profile or something else?

The_Beast wrote:Looks pretty good. How did you model the 1x1 keys? Did you measure them yourself or did you find something online?


I know a guy with a CNC and some spare time, I would love to see if he could make some aluminum key caps. BTW are the 1x1 keys you currently have Cherry profile or something else?

Modeled them myself. Cherry profile (I believe the profile is called DCS?), made from an H key if I remember correctly. I took great care in making it exakt and easy to change the dimensions so that I could easily create the different rows later. The sides are not flat like the back and front for instance.

On a side note, I will attempt to make a windowed caps alter by filling the hole in titanium with polyester resin. Perhaps I could also create an extrusion which is about 0.5mm deep on the surface and fill it with ordinary solder and then sand to create light metal on darker metal labels.

damorgue wrote:On a side note, I will attempt to make a windowed caps alter by filling the hole in titanium with polyester resin. Perhaps I could also create an extrusion which is about 0.5mm deep on the surface and fil with ordinary soleringiron and then sand to create light metal on darker metal labels.

First things first...lets get that center stemmed stepped caps key perfect

Could you send me a sheet/pdf with all the dimensions? I would save me time from measure everything myself. If not that's fine too