Great/Interesting Finds

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Chyros

20 Oct 2015, 00:46

Congrats E3E, you found the caps! What a coincidence that one just like that would pop up now! :D

As for the whole yellowing debate, *shows off chemist badge*, this is the way it works :D .

ABS yellows. Trust me, it REALLY does. I have several ABS boards that haven't yellowed at all, but really, they ALL will. PBT is virtually (but not completely) immune to yellowing. You'd have to put it in direct sunlight for an extended period of time for it to become anything but absolutely virgin white.

ABS dissolves quite dramatically in acetone, PTB doesn't. You can use this to determine which of the two it is if you're not sure. Just do it on an inconspicuous area.

PBT is harder to mould than ABS however, and as such the spacebar isn't easy to make come out properly with PBT. This is why spacebars on boards with PBT caps often still have an ABS spacebar. This is easy to see because it'll almost invariably be much yellower than the PBT caps. This property also makes PBT very hard to doubleshot; only a few examples of this exist (reportedly on the Ortek MCK-101, for instance). PBT is often dyesubbed instead.

Whether you prefer PBT dyesub or ABS doubleshot is entirely a matter of opinion. On ABS doubleshots, the printing is of higher quality, on PBT dyesub, the plastic is. I prefer ABS myself, as I like the super high quality look of the legends, and even thin ABS caps sound noticeably bassier on keys than thick PBT ones do. That said, I can see why people like thick PBT too.

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Hypersphere

20 Oct 2015, 02:03

I prefer PBT mainly for the feel of it. PBT is dry to the touch. ABS feels clammy (to me). If you apply your finger to a PBT cap and drag your finger toward you, your finger will slide smoothly. When you do this maneuver on an ABS cap, you will get a "stuttering" effect with noticeable friction.

The fit and finish along with the quality of legends can vary tremendously with either PBT or ABS keycaps, depending on the manufacturer.

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E3E

20 Oct 2015, 02:11

Chyros wrote: Congrats E3E, you found the caps! What a coincidence that one just like that would pop up now! :D

As for the whole yellowing debate, *shows off chemist badge*, this is the way it works :D .

ABS yellows. Trust me, it REALLY does. I have several ABS boards that haven't yellowed at all, but really, they ALL will. PBT is virtually (but not completely) immune to yellowing. You'd have to put it in direct sunlight for an extended period of time for it to become anything but absolutely virgin white.

ABS dissolves quite dramatically in acetone, PTB doesn't. You can use this to determine which of the two it is if you're not sure. Just do it on an inconspicuous area.

PBT is harder to mould than ABS however, and as such the spacebar isn't easy to make come out properly with PBT. This is why spacebars on boards with PBT caps often still have an ABS spacebar. This is easy to see because it'll almost invariably be much yellower than the PBT caps. This property also makes PBT very hard to doubleshot; only a few examples of this exist (reportedly on the Ortek MCK-101, for instance). PBT is often dyesubbed instead.

Whether you prefer PBT dyesub or ABS doubleshot is entirely a matter of opinion. On ABS doubleshots, the printing is of higher quality, on PBT dyesub, the plastic is. I prefer ABS myself, as I like the super high quality look of the legends, and even thin ABS caps sound noticeably bassier on keys than thick PBT ones do. That said, I can see why people like thick PBT too.
Hey, nice to see you here, Chyros!

Yeah, I have to say that I really love the feeling of ABS on blue alps, but I've heard so many conflicting opinions on what each side of the PBT/ABS coin adds to the qualities of a key stroke. Some people say PBT is better for linears and tactiles and that it imparts a denser feeling and a pleasant thock to the bottom-out sound. I've heard some say that ABS enhances the click on clicky switches, and Chyros' opinion is that PBT kind of deadens it. That makes sense since it's a denser material.

Personally, I have tried thick ABS and PBT on my Cherry MX boards, with vintage MX blacks and vintage ergos tuned up and lube, etc. They both feel very similar to me, but ABS kind of has an "airy" feeling to it. It still feels nice and thick on the key press, but kind of just light in a pleasant way. PBT definitely feels "heavy" in comparison. I personally like both and they both seemed almost equally thocky to me.

Oh yeah, that Ortek! I thought it was weird that the seller claimed they are doubleshot PBT. I still wonder if it's true or not, but I doubt they'll do an acetone test to actually be sure of it. They might be thinking it's PBT because of the fantastic condition the caps are in. No way to know for sure unless someone buys it. :?

A link to it on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ortek-MCK-101FX ... 1793627059
Last edited by E3E on 20 Oct 2015, 02:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

20 Oct 2015, 02:27

I think the main reason for people seeking the Omnikey is that some of them came with Blue Alps. I thought the reason that many of these products yellowed was because of the fire retardant bromine that were sprayed on them? That was always what I had heard since old computers that were metal also yellowed over the years.

Also, I recently switched out the caps on my Kailh Blues board for PBT and I didn't much like them, maybe they would feel better on linear? I just installed a set of new ABS caps on my Blue Alps V60 and I really like the feel of it. It doesn't really feel extremely slick to me, but maybe I'm just one of those weirdos who actually prefers ABS to PBT. :D

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Muirium
µ

20 Oct 2015, 03:16

Both materials really vary quite a lot. PBT can be distinctly uninspiring, as it is on IBM Model F and Model M. Or it can be richly textured and quite tremendous, like on Granite:

Image

ABS runs a similar gamut. SP's DSA family happens to be a highly textured profile, whether it's ABS or PBT. So you find that DSA doubleshots are actually quite a delightful texture too, like the ABS DSA Dolch set I had, or Matteo's DSA Retro. Very different to SA which is quite smooth, meaning Matteo's followup: SA Retro feels little like its brother.

Of course, ABS DSA caps will lose their texture then shine much faster than PBT DSA caps. So profile doesn't trump material forever.

By the way, from what I've heard. ABS can't be dyesubbed. It melts too soon. Dyesub isn't just a fallback for doubleshot. It has strengths of its own, besides PBT friendliness. Chief among them are custom legends - you don't have to make new molds for every key just when updating legends, like a different font - and multicolour legends. You can see both at work in my picture. Granite has sublime legends, set in the rightly famous Gotham font instead of SP's in house Gorton; the only font you typically ever see on their doubleshots. And secondary legends can be gloriously colourful, like this:

Image

You need tripleshot to compete with that! A rare, rare beast.

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E3E

20 Oct 2015, 03:26

Hypersphere wrote: I prefer PBT mainly for the feel of it. PBT is dry to the touch. ABS feels clammy (to me). If you apply your finger to a PBT cap and drag your finger toward you, your finger will slide smoothly. When you do this maneuver on an ABS cap, you will get a "stuttering" effect with noticeable friction.

The fit and finish along with the quality of legends can vary tremendously with either PBT or ABS keycaps, depending on the manufacturer.
This is crazy, but it's true! I just tried this on some AEK PBT caps put on a board with ABS doubleshots, and trying to slide my across the cap, the ABS always had that stuttering jumpy motion you describe, but on the PBT, my finger could drag smoothly all the way. This seems like it's an issue regardless of texture. Does this mean that ABS is more grippy?

Actually, I should clarify. This is most noticeable, at least with these caps, when I slide my finger upwards, though still there slightly in the other direction.

EDIT: This can happen with PBT too, but it has to be super deliberate. I had to press down hard and drag my finger and that's the only time there would be a choppy motion in the stroke.

Ahh yes, I've heard of tripleshots on some boards, Murium. I love how much attention to detail some vintage makes had.

I also agree with the texturing being fantastic on mint examples of either. I have experience with PBT DSA and ABS DCS, and they both have really nice gritty texture that feels nice against the fingers.

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CommonCurt

20 Oct 2015, 05:19

E3Eves wrote: http://www.ebay.com/itm/151854059864?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

Image

I snapped this up without hesitation since I have a very special (for me anyway) Alps build planned and have been looking for these caps in particular for a while. Missed out on some on MechMarket (just the caps sold for $35, so this is a wonderful price!), but then THIS popped up.

Knew I should have grabbed that when I had the chance. Need those keycaps myself.

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E3E

20 Oct 2015, 05:42

CommonCurt wrote:
E3Eves wrote: http://www.ebay.com/itm/151854059864?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

Image

I snapped this up without hesitation since I have a very special (for me anyway) Alps build planned and have been looking for these caps in particular for a while. Missed out on some on MechMarket (just the caps sold for $35, so this is a wonderful price!), but then THIS popped up.

Knew I should have grabbed that when I had the chance. Need those keycaps myself.
PLS CURT NO! NO! :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

My heart just sank. I could've lost her! With how rare these are, I definitely plan on restoring the old AT101 to its former glory. I'll probably just temporarily use the caps for when I want the feels on my linear green alps build I have in mind, but I would feel bad defiling this keyboard, really bad, so it's never going to be permanently stripped of its caps, haha.

I'm so glad I had the chance! I hardly ever feel like I can ever be the one to land a deal. XD I have been looking all over for one of these! I was literally panicking as I was on the checkout screen, since the funding choices were not as I wanted them. I was so worried someone was going to buy it right out from under me.

What were you going to use the caps for, Curt?

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CommonCurt

20 Oct 2015, 06:15

E3Eves wrote:
CommonCurt wrote:
E3Eves wrote: http://www.ebay.com/itm/151854059864?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT
I snapped this up without hesitation since I have a very special (for me anyway) Alps build planned and have been looking for these caps in particular for a while. Missed out on some on MechMarket (just the caps sold for $35, so this is a wonderful price!), but then THIS popped up.
Knew I should have grabbed that when I had the chance. Need those keycaps myself.
PLS CURT NO! NO! :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

My heart just sank. I could've lost her! With how rare these are, I definitely plan on restoring the old AT101 to its former glory. I'll probably just temporarily use the caps for when I want the feels on my linear green alps build I have in mind, but I would feel bad defiling this keyboard, really bad, so it's never going to be permanently stripped of its caps, haha.

I'm so glad I had the chance! I hardly ever feel like I can ever be the one to land a deal. XD I have been looking all over for one of these! I was literally panicking as I was on the checkout screen, since the funding choices were not as I wanted them. I was so worried someone was going to buy it right out from under me.

What were you going to use the caps for, Curt?
Yeah I think I saw your classifieds add on GH for some. I thought about posting a WTB just for the caps, but figured no one would want to part with just the caps themselves.

I need a set of them for my hasu 60% ALPS build. I did just manage to get a set of SGI Granite caps from a seller on Ebay, but I really like the AT101's font, and color better.
Last edited by CommonCurt on 20 Oct 2015, 12:35, edited 1 time in total.

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E3E

20 Oct 2015, 06:31

CommonCurt wrote: [
I need a set of them for my hasu 60% ALPS build. I did just manage to get a set of SGI Granite caps from a seller on Ebay, but I really like the AT101's font, and color better.
You might get lucky, don't worry! I felt hopeless the other day when I was browsing eBay all day looking for a Dell that might have thick PBT caps, all the while missing a set that went on /r/MechMarket that went for $35.

In the end, I think I got the better deal, but I honestly felt like I'd never get a set. Originally, I had planned on dyeing them and modifying the stems to work on cherry stabs, since I have a special build with the Duck Eagle in mind. However, after really thinking about how hard these are to find, I decided against it. Maybe if I just had the caps and not the whole keyboard, but I know I can't do it now.

I'll probably buy a set of SGI Granite caps so I can carry out the mods I wanted to do originally without regret. Maybe use SGI mods with AT101 Alphas.

I actually really like the Apple kinda font SGI has on its caps, but the concept for my build was to have something that looked as ordinary as possible.

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Blaise170
ALPS キーボード

20 Oct 2015, 09:58

Not to self advertise but I'll have a set or two of Apple PBT for sale soon. I already have it bagged, just need to sort the two sets out.

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scottc

20 Oct 2015, 10:03

I may grab one of those, Blaise!

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Chyros

20 Oct 2015, 10:42

Muirium wrote: By the way, from what I've heard. ABS can't be dyesubbed.
I've heard this before but I think it's not true. I have several boards I'm almost certain are dyesubbed ABS, such as my 6312-TW, KB-101A, and AT101 (the 97 model).

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Hypersphere

20 Oct 2015, 15:12

Massdrop is now offering the Novatouch as a barebones version for 129.99 USD.

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gogusrl

20 Oct 2015, 15:17

Chyros, they might be really well done pad printing. I got my hands on a Mitsumi with cherry compatible pad-printed keycaps that you can't distinguish from dyesubs without a very bright light and a lot of ogling.

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kokokoy

20 Oct 2015, 15:21

Hypersphere wrote: Massdrop is now offering the Novatouch as a barebones version for 129.99 USD.
Then I thought I'm done spending this month.

andrewjoy

20 Oct 2015, 15:22

Hypersphere wrote: Massdrop is now offering the Novatouch as a barebones version for 129.99 USD.
Oh come on! after i just send £883 on flights :(
Last edited by andrewjoy on 20 Oct 2015, 15:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Muirium
µ

20 Oct 2015, 15:30

Where to? 'Murica? Or some other place Massdrop couldn't find on a map, like us?

andrewjoy

20 Oct 2015, 15:32

Going to 'nam!

So about the same chance as mass drop has of finding us!

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Muirium
µ

20 Oct 2015, 15:34

Oh shit! You got drafted? Best of luck making your tour of duty in one piece, man.

(Yes, I love Nam war movies. Everything else celebrates the violence too much. But those 70-80s Hollywood peaceniks knew how to celebrate the mindfuck instead. So much better!)

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

20 Oct 2015, 15:36

Vietnam? My brother-in-law recently visited, loved it. He had himself some nice suits custom tailored. Real cheap but top notch quality.

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Muirium
µ

20 Oct 2015, 15:40

Anyone know if Massdrop does bulk discounts? I mean, I'm already packing a bunch of NovaTouch damping rings for my return…

(My guess, of course: no. Money hogging capitalists!)

andrewjoy

20 Oct 2015, 15:41

It should be good! could have spent a little less on flights but i did not want to change like 3 times, this is direct from Charles de Gaulle to Hanoi, with a quick easyjet cattle wagon from John Lennon. Booked em separately and saved a few 100 :).

We will travel all over but i was going to slum it in this hotel for a bit.
20151020064031.jpg
20151020064031.jpg (144.98 KiB) Viewed 4435 times

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shreebles
Finally 60%

20 Oct 2015, 15:49

I wanted to visit Vietnam this winter because a friend of us is staying there for a few months... Now it seems like we will move house in early february so we really as much money and as little other plans as possible.

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

20 Oct 2015, 15:55

Have a good trip Andrew. Food should be great too.

mr_a500

20 Oct 2015, 15:58

I remember 'nam. I was there back in the 70's, three tours. I trusted my life to these guys:

Image

We had team rings made up and everything. Those were the days.

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Muirium
µ

20 Oct 2015, 16:41

Give peace a chance, man!

Image

andrewjoy

20 Oct 2015, 16:47

We could do with something real for people to protest against, or you know , this happens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminazi

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seebart
Offtopicthority Instigator

20 Oct 2015, 16:51

andrewjoy wrote: We could do with something real for people to protest against, or you know , this happens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminazi
That's a stupid term, I call 'em grumpychicks. :mrgreen:

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guk
1896 Vintage Reds

20 Oct 2015, 16:55

Hell no, grumpy doesn't even come close to describing those extremists. The term Feminazi actually nails it.
Also, grumpy is too heavily linked to kbdfr.

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