deskthority

Please discuss the technical issues of the qHack here


My first question:
Is it OK to place the controller in the 2nd row from top?

I want to place stabiliser mounts for a 2 units BACK SPACE key where the controller is now at the HyperMicro, so there would be too many holes. I don't want to place it further inwards. It is more convenient to have it one row down.

BTW: I will start with the Cherry version and make the Alps version later. It is possible to have both on one PCB, but things get impossible with multiple mount options.

ALPS: Which stabilisers to be used with Alps switches?

Are Cherry PCB or plate mountable stabilisers possible?
At least I've read something like that.

Ah, good to see progress on this one. The qHack is a nice layout and a cute name!

7bit wrote: ↑ My first question:
Is it OK to place the controller in the 2nd row from top?

Yes. It just makes the keyboard case thicker. This isn't great, but we have CNC capability now thanks to Matteo, so perhaps our cases can become smarter with a sculpted recess etc.

Do not worry about lining up the Teensy's socket to the outside. Much better we run our own internal cables instead. At least that's how I like to do it.

7bit wrote: ↑I want to place stabiliser mounts for a 2 units BACK SPACE key where the controller is now at the HyperMicro, so there would be too many holes. I don't want to place it further inwards. It is more convenient to have it one row down.

I guess that's a reasonable compromise. A 2u Backspace seems like a waste on such a small keyboard, but they are more available than HHKB style keys.

But then again, your row 0 is crazy for trying to match to common keysets. Who actually prefers 2u row 1 Backspace to 1.5u row 2 when they have the choice? And are they likely to get a qHack?

7bit wrote: ↑BTW: I will start with the Cherry version and make the Alps version later. It is possible to have both on one PCB, but things get impossible with multiple mount options.

ALPS: Which stabilisers to be used with Alps switches?

SP makes Alps mount MX stabs hybrid caps, right? That's your answer there. Because classic Alps caps won't work on this board. I can't even find a good Poker / HHKB style 60% block in classic Alps.

I asked Matias recently, and says he'll sell Alps mount caps (and he has some unspecified solution for stabs, too). But the best bet for a layout like this is a custom order at SP, I bet.

7bit wrote: ↑Are Cherry PCB or plate mountable stabilisers possible?
At least I've read something like that.

Cherry stabs come in both PCB and plate mount, as you know of course, and both would be compatible with hybrid Alps centre mount + MX stab mount SP caps. So I wouldn't worry much.

Matias and MX need different plates anyway, if you want a plate in this keyboard.

2u backspace: I don't need it, but others do. I want 100% Cherry key cap support.


Ideally, this keyboard makes the Miniguru obsolete.


However, lowpoly can still sell me his trackpoint invention.

Now we're talking.

Please do source some real space bars for this project, not Shift keys.

Real as in convex? That will be tricky. Aren't SP's 4u SA space bars the smallest real space bar shaped ones available?

Yes, but Findecanor will do the full funding for it.


BTW: Nobody needs ISO-Return, right?

I don't. But for completeness and reference, the complete design:

webwit wrote: ↑Take HHKB layout (with the second layer and extra Fun key to allow for touch typing of arrow keys). Add keys to empty space on bottom row. Don't fuck around with the spacing/size of the existing bottom row keys, they line up with touch typing fingers. Split the space bar in half, make Space/Back Space swappable (or both Space) like on an IBM Model M15. I like Space to the right. Give it colemak layout, use blank keys (the picture just shows labels for your exclusive convenience). This is just to scare the not-initiated. Well ok, you may use qwerty if you persist. Add "lowpoly" trackpoint, a scrollwheel and three mouse buttons. Add Duck key. Duck key + mouse buttons = volume control. Done.

webwit wrote: ↑It's the HHKB + miniguru + IBM Erase-Eaze. I added the scroll wheel and Duck key. Although the Duck key doesn't count because the actual scan code is up to the user (like Windows context menu key or something).

It's like an Apple product, it combines theses features into a neat single package... and BAM...revolutionary!

Of course the labels/layouts are just examples/defaults as the keyboard is programmable to whatever one prefers.

If you plan on going SA, we even have the legend tooled up for that all important duck:

http://deskthority.net/vendors-f52/hone ... ml#p176610

What size(s) are those split halves of the space bar? Looks like 2.5 and 3u to me, which is a bit awkward to source.

The catch with Matt's duck is that it's too detailed to fit on a 1 unit cap as a double shot legend. I believe the tooling should be ok for any wider SA row 3 key though

I smell Alps R6

Huh?

7bit wrote: ↑Ideally, this keyboard makes the Miniguru obsolete.


However, lowpoly can still sell me his trackpoint invention.

Heh!

qHack is easy, except for the bottom row.

If we go with Cherry DG, or equivalent switches, the stabilisers get into their way. All I can do is to make the PCB wider at the bottom.
To get stabilisers not to interfere, the PCB must extend at the bottom by around 7mm. Then, all you have are little nubs pointing out from the switches to be pushed. There are no key caps for mouse buttons.

7bit wrote: ↑qHack is easy, except for the bottom row.

If we go with Cherry DG, or equivalent switches, the stabilisers get into their way. All I can do is to make the PCB wider at the bottom.
To get stabilisers not to interfere, the PCB must extend at the bottom by around 7mm. Then, all you have are little nubs pointing out from the switches to be pushed. There are no key caps for mouse buttons.

If you do stretch the lower side of the keyboard (I mean the one facing the user), you might just use normal key caps and cherry switches just like the Tex Yoda seems to be doing it?

I think it actually looks quite nice: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 0904_n.jpg

Steve Jobs would not agree with a bigger PCB, so I'm afraid we have to use glue instead of stabilisers.

We can always get rid of stabilisers!


But even then:
We need a little space anyway, because the next thing that is in the way are the switches.

The Miniguru 'solves' this by leaving away the center button and going with a conventional space bar (6.25 units at least, 4 units would not be wide enough).

I'm afraid there is not much choice.

edit:
With 1.5 units keys it would work. No other choices available!

BTW:
What about the scroll wheel, webwit?
As far as I know that was your job to find one that suits your layout.

webwit wrote: ↑Steve Jobs would not agree with a bigger PCB, so I'm afraid we have to use glue instead of stabilisers.

And ONLY ONE BUTTON!



Alternatively: use smaller caps. Stabs are bad news, and best avoided wherever possible.

The main-disadvantage: The gap between mouse buttons is 1.5 units.

7bit wrote: ↑What about the scroll wheel, webwit?
As far as I know that was you job to find one that suits your layout.

I'm not sure if that was my job, but I did search for that. I couldn't find any good stuff Or mouse parts in general. Possible I don't know the right part shops. But I think it's because mice are made and replaced whole and there is no industry for separate parts, at least not in non-industrial quantities.

Was more a joke!

I would leave out 1 unit for a scroll-wheel, but would be great if anybody who owns a mouse with a scroll wheel, would take it apart and measure if it could fit, or how large it is.

I don't own mice with scroll wheels, all I have is a RollerMouse with a scroll-wheels that is at least 2 units wide.


Good news: Controller goes into center of top row.

7bit wrote: ↑The Miniguru 'solves' this by leaving away the center button and going with a conventional space bar

Historically, there was nothing to solve as the prototype uses a two-button trackpoint model.

wheel

Look for rotary encoders, here's one from our favorite company:

http://kailh.manufacturer.globalsources ... ncoder.htm

You now need a counter support with a bearing, and a wheel. The difficult part is to make it look good.

Maybe I can help with making prototype wheels, I have a lathe. The last time I did some knurling was 30 years ago though.

Edit:

Here's the Kailh startpage with the key switches:

http://kailh.manufacturer.globalsources ... mepage.htm

MOQ 6000 Pieces. Delivery from China.

No source from Europe?

BTW: They have also fake Cherry switches.

I just had that in my bookmarks. Here's a ton with lower MOQs:

http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?Sea ... 0806123942

Why not China?

BTW: They have also fake Cherry switches.

Kailh Cherry clones, yes.

OK, thanks!


Seem not very expensive.

Now we have to find one that feels smooth and fits on the keyboard. And what about the wheel itself?

7bit wrote: ↑And what about the wheel itself?

4 posts up.

Depends on how "perfect" you want it. You need a hex axis. If you want to do the wheel one part (better) you have to do the hex part in a second step on a mill with a rotary table (assuming non-cnc machines). That's a lot of work. It would be easier to fit a hex axis (allen key for ex.) into a wheel with a hole. Then fasten the wheel to the axis with a small worm screw. So you have that worm screw channel. Not perfect, but easy.

Edit: this would be a better diy construction:



green: rotary shaft encoder
purple: allen key segment
yellow: wheel
cyan: model flange ball bearing
gray: aluminum counter support

With this you could actually press-fit the allen key segment into the wheel.

Hex is probably available as semi-finished stock too.

Now, this in 1 unit (~19mm) and I want smooth scrolling, not that rasterized thing most mice have.

Exactly. Ratchet scrolling is a scourge. It's another axis, treat it that way, good and smooth.

7bit wrote: ↑BTW: They have also fake Cherry switches.

Get some!

7bit wrote: ↑Now, this in 1 unit (~19mm)

But that's not how the original drawing is.

I'd try to hide the encoder and the counter support under the spacebars. 0.25u wheel and 2x 3u bars.