deskthority

Beware of swear 8) .

BOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

green-squid wrote: BOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Thank you for your meaningful contribution to this thread.

You are welcome Scott!

I was waiting for this and there were some ones I haven't heard of.

I don't think all Key Tronic foam-and-foil with rubber sleeve are that scratchy... If it didn't have any foam, the switch would have been one of the better rubber domes/sleeves IMHO.

Edit: Same with Cherry MY. Some are scratchier than others. I have taken apart three or four Cherry MY keyboards and none was nearly as bad as the keyboard in the video.
Edit 2: I could add that I have had much worse experiences with Alps (rescued from a landfill ...)

My first encounter with Alps integrated dome (the small blue ones) led me to believe they were mechanical, as they were sharply tactile and had a metallic ping. I was quite surprised when I opened a switch. With any rubber-based keyboard (including MEI T-15) you have to consider the state of the rubber. For example, I could dispute the praise heaped upon BTC domes, on the basis that the rubber in mine has stiffened to the point that I miss keystrokes from not hitting the keys with enough force.

From my experience, rubber can go one of at least two ways. Some keyboards (such as my BTC 5149 and a PowerBook 150 I ended up with) suffer from stiffened rubber (the PowerBook was so bad it was unusable).

Alternatively, rubber can soften — I had an AppleDesign Keyboard where the rubber was so spongy that it absorbed the keystroke impact to the extent that you couldn't even feel your own fingers. It was a sensory deprivation keyboard and that made typing almost impossible.

As for Futaba ML, I wrote an entire software package on those (on the BBC Master), and I had no issues with the feel at all (MR feels OK, but the downstroke damping leads to delayed audible feedback, from the upstroke only, which I find confusing now).

One of the first keyboards I had a problem with was the Apple Keyboard II with Mitsumi KPQ Type switches, which was stiff and mushy. As opinion on those varies considerably, I figure that, again, it's down to which type of rubber was used (it appears to have varied) and how it aged.

As for spring over membrane being non-linear, it may well be — Oriental Tech's are definitely progressive rate, and KPQ Type "linear" switches are too (as shown in Mitsumi's own force curve). A lot of dual-spring designs are in fact progressive rate, not linear.

If it's not completely clear guys, this isn't the most serious video I've ever made :p .

derp

I realise that the presentation is not serious, but if those are not your actual worst top ten, then that was a pretty worthless video. However, the video still suffers from the same confusion of age and wear vs design.

Besides, Cherry ML in some keyboards is really good. I have two, one really good, and the other, strangely not, and I don't understand why. The latter is more cramped, and that doesn't help, but the switches don't seem to feel as good, and are more like how people claim. Also, ML1B should have less binding as it's taller, so it would be interesting to try an ML1B keyboard (very rare) as those should have the same tactile feel but not bind as much. No doubt they're still extremely scratchy, and I do wonder what it would take to cure that, as the force curve is perfect.

davkol wrote: I'm surprised that Mitsumi miniature switches have made it to bottom ♯2.

There are some people who genuinely like them, although there's some binding and it's nearly impossible to open the switch for lubrication.

Is there any hope for these switches? I have a really cool board but I refuse to use it because it's like typing on a sticky mess.
I've tried lubing them in place but it didn't really make much of a difference.

Totally willing to get real tedious if there is hope to revive this beast.

derp

davkol wrote: Well, you could replace the switches (and PCB while at it).

Plan A: Dunk the whole thing in lube
Plan B: Replace switches and pcb
Plan C: Leave it in my closet indefinitely

Alps integrated dome and Cherry MY do have one quality: their keyboards can act as donors for keycaps.

Findecanor wrote: Edit: Same with Cherry MY. Some are scratchier than others. I have taken apart three or four Cherry MY keyboards and none was nearly as bad as the keyboard in the video.

My Cherry Type 1 white MY is one of my smoothest keyboards that I own, black MY is also pretty good. These switches just have a weird heavy bottom out. The only really bad switch is the modern white MY, that one has a bad bottom out and it's not smooth

"Considering the Splattery Poop we've seen so far you'd think we already are scraping the bottom of the Shit Barrel but no, we are just getting started" .

Down the sewers of flame and Fuckness we Go.

My 5 year old was on the floor in stitches laughing his head off.

You are a STAR in his eyes Chyros .

Very good video like always, mitsumi miniatures on second place was unexpected, I remember them not that bad.

hypkx wrote: Very good video like always, mitsumi miniatures on second place was unexpected, I remember them not that bad.

Yeah, as some have remarked, this can vary a lot from board to board with some of these switches. None of the boards I based this list on were in bad condition, but at the same time, I'm sure there are better-feeling ones out there.

The MY G81-8000 in this was the best of a haul of 34 such boards, for example. Although it was the cleanest, there were both better- and worse-feeling ones in that batch. I must've had well over 50 MY boards in total, and this one wasn't the best-feeling one for sure. But I haven't found a single last-gen MY board that wasn't fundamentally horrendous xD. Of course, considering the video already ended up with 50 scenes and this particular one was obviously meant to be more light-hearted rather than ultra-scientific, I wasn't going to nuance every single switch in it xD . This, and the fact these are all still opinion-based videos, is apparently still beyond some other people :p .

The Mitsumi board in this was one of my very first donations, it came from Mu and originally was in the Surprise Box. It's really clean, and doesn't appear to have seen much use, but it's not NOS.

Elrick wrote: "Considering the Splattery Poop we've seen so far you'd think we already are scraping the bottom of the Shit Barrel but no, we are just getting started" .

Down the sewers of flame and Fuckness we Go.

My 5 year old was on the floor in stitches laughing his head off.

You are a STAR in his eyes Chyros .

Haha thanks mate xD .

davkol wrote: There are some people who genuinely like them, although there's some binding and it's nearly impossible to open the switch for lubrication.

All switches can be taken apart ... but not all can be put back together again.

Findecanor wrote:

davkol wrote: There are some people who genuinely like them, although there's some binding and it's nearly impossible to open the switch for lubrication.

All switches can be taken apart ... but not all can be put back together again.

that's true for a lot of things in life if you have a chainsaw