Does this make me #2 ban on GH?

[Rafen]

I think I will probably be staying away from GH now since that place has really gone down hill. I am just so sick of seeing people getting ripped off in the marketplace and no one says anything about it. When they do they get banned. F*** that forum!

[jabar]

DangWang, you have my respect. I thought you were one of the CC Auctioneer crowd but you proved me wrong and did a service trying to save the GH community from the greedy Sherrytons and cactuxes and longweights who wish to continue profiting off reclaimed barn find keyboards and shiny stupid plastic junk.

Unfortunately GH can't be saved from itself.

[Limmy]

In a libertarian market economy, you have to accept that if there are constantly demand enough, and low enough supply, the price will increase as per the famous curve. Some are simply willing to pay when you aren't

Agreed! No problem with that.

I don't think most of the people who complain about the price in sales do so to keep potential unaware buyers from getting scammed. I think they do so because they aren't themselves wiling to pay that much. I'd venture a guess and state that in most of the cases when there are such complaints, the seller get several bids anyways because some are just willing to pay such hefty sums for the item in question. The buyers aren't getting scammed, they are aware of it and willing to pay such a large price tag knowing fully well that it is boosted by the skewed demand/supply.The people complaining are just the ones who wanted the item but doesn't want it bad enough to pay that much for it, and they vent their opinions in hopes that it will keep buyers away for the price to drop to the, according to them, acceptable level.

Are you saying that such opinions(hoping prices to go down) should be shut out? Are they so detrimental that they should be silenced? In my opinion, they should be respected, just as much as seller trying to take profits from trading. I am saying that the GH market place is way to beneficial to sellers. Sellers can say all they want, but buyers cannot. I don't think that is fair.

[phetto]

It's a conspiracy, an attempt to win a clickclack wingnut this year in the dta *ping* award category, for getting "banned" (trololo) at gh. A grave misunderstanding, because in this category you will get a litster smiley key instead. Or the turd key. It hasn't been decided yet.

Spoiler:

LOL, SPOT ON

[Soarer]

...

Are you saying that such opinions(hoping prices to go down) should be shut out? Are they so detrimental that they should be silenced? In my opinion, they should be respected, just as much as seller trying to take profits from trading. I am saying that the GH market place is way to beneficial to sellers. Sellers can say all they want, but buyers cannot. I don't think that is fair.

I don't think he is, and I agree with his post since (I think) it's saying that it doesn't matter how many people make posts saying things like "I wouldn't pay more than $10 for a Model M". If the going rate is higher, people will pay the higher amount anyway.

On the other hand, there's always chancers who will try to sell a secondhand item at or above the current 'new' price. While posting that info might well be hurtful to their sale, well, they deserve it!! (Secondhand is secondhand - it doesn''t matter at all if it's unused, because the buyer probably won't be getting any warranty with it, etc etc).

[DanGWanG]

DangWang, you have my respect. I thought you were one of the CC Auctioneer crowd but you proved me wrong and did a service trying to save the GH community from the greedy Sherrytons and cactuxes and longweights who wish to continue profiting off reclaimed barn find keyboards and shiny stupid plastic junk.

Unfortunately GH can't be saved from itself.

Thank you, but I have in the past auctioned CC's. My first time was when I was faced with the reality of greed back in late-2010 and my 2nd time was recently when I was dealing with a capital money crisis.

[jabar]

You can believe whatever market theory you want. Freedom of expression is what keeps competition going and prices in check. It doesn't matter what purpose commentary serves, as long as it's allowed.

[jabar]

Thank you, but I have in the past auctioned CC's. My first time was when I was faced with the reality of greed back in late-2010 and my 2nd time was recently when I was dealing with a capital money crisis.

I think you can agree that those sorts of auctions produce a lot of community animosity.

Either way, I'm glad you used your position to bring this important discussion to the forefront. It is unfortunate that the moderation team acted poorly and without good judgment.

[baldgye]

So you're only allowed to offend people you can beat up?

no mate, what that over educated idiot is saying that he doesn't understand when people are giving him fair warning.

If you say something that offends me, I'm telling you that if you say that again. Your on my fucking terms. It's a verbal contract, far better than no warning at all. Like a 2am kebab house.

over educated?
Would you be saying that shit to a world class heavy weight boxer, if he offended you? Don't think so 'mate'...

[jeroplane]

In a libertarian market economy, you have to accept that if there are constantly demand enough, and low enough supply, the price will increase as per the famous curve. Some are simply willing to pay when you aren't

I don't think most of the people who complain about the price in sales do so to keep potential unaware buyers from getting scammed. I think they do so because they aren't themselves wiling to pay that much. I'd venture a guess and state that in most of the cases when there are such complaints, the seller get several bids anyways because some are just willing to pay such hefty sums for the item in question. The buyers aren't getting scammed, they are aware of it and willing to pay such a large price tag knowing fully well that it is boosted by the skewed demand/supply.The people complaining are just the ones who wanted the item but doesn't want it bad enough to pay that much for it, and they vent their opinions in hopes that it will keep buyers away for the price to drop to the, according to them, acceptable level.

Yes, the item may have cost close to nothing to produce. Yes it may have cost less in the past. You may only be willing to pay that amount, but with an unregulated market, we have to accept that if there are people willing to pay more, we have to accept it and move on.

There may of course be exceptions where the person complaining actually wants to help the buyer and avoid people getting scammed.

Also, the question of allowing secret bids is a whole other matter as it is more of a "being able to stay anonymous" vs "risk that buyer inflates by fake bids". There are also most certainly cases where people do get a bit scammed, but I'd say that there are far less than the number of complaints would suggest.

Very well said... I have been a proponent of an unmoderated marketplace bar ad hominem, but I hadn't thought about it in this way before - food for thought indeed...

I suppose the ideal of protecting newbies from being scammed is just that - an ideal. But is it really bad for the market if all prices are pushed down just a little, even if it is by result of complainers who are not willing to pay as much as others? It is definitely flawed in many ways, but it would mean that the community as a whole is saving money and everyone is sort of working together for lower prices as opposed to against each other, i.e. profiteering.

[Acanthophis]

no mate, what that over educated idiot is saying that he doesn't understand when people are giving him fair warning.

If you say something that offends me, I'm telling you that if you say that again. Your on my fucking terms. It's a verbal contract, far better than no warning at all. Like a 2am kebab house.

I think Fry's comment about taking offense was something like "I don't think you are right (about religous things (that seems to be the subject in that podium discussion, me thinks))". People do, in fact, take offense to that.

So if I tell you: "Meh, I don't think that shitty Buckling Spring is better than Topre", you'd react the same way (be on your fucking terms and whatnot)?
I doubt that from what I read from you so far. And neither does any normal human being.

But some people (cactux (hate to point him out, but he's a great example)) react like that. They take offense to 'threadcrap'.
And there goes my approach. The same as Fry's. So fucking what [you have taken offense]?


I'm not talking about verbally shitfacing you and your company in a bar when I'm drunk.

[rayuki]

well i was going to delete my GH account soon anyway, even more reason to do so now. place is such a joke.

[jabar]

I suppose the ideal of protecting newbies from being scammed is just that - an ideal. But is it really bad for the market if all prices are pushed down just a little, even if it is by result of complainers who are not willing to pay as much as others? It is definitely flawed in many ways, but it would mean that the community as a whole is saving money and everyone is sort of working together for lower prices as opposed to against each other, i.e. profiteering.

Why does the identity of commentators matter? Everyone is a potential buyer just with different price point tolerances. To say that allowing "complainers" to comment on prices is a flawed system is a very seller-biased perspective.

[jeroplane]

I suppose the ideal of protecting newbies from being scammed is just that - an ideal. But is it really bad for the market if all prices are pushed down just a little, even if it is by result of complainers who are not willing to pay as much as others? It is definitely flawed in many ways, but it would mean that the community as a whole is saving money and everyone is sort of working together for lower prices as opposed to against each other, i.e. profiteering.

Why does the identity of commentators matter? Everyone is a potential buyer just with different price point tolerances. To say that allowing "complainers" to comment on prices is a flawed system is a very seller-biased perspective.

I'm not sure what you mean, but I used the term "complainers" to reflect the language in damorgue's post. Could you clarify what you meant by the identity of commentators?

[Lastpilot]

I suppose the ideal of protecting newbies from being scammed is just that - an ideal. But is it really bad for the market if all prices are pushed down just a little, even if it is by result of complainers who are not willing to pay as much as others? It is definitely flawed in many ways, but it would mean that the community as a whole is saving money and everyone is sort of working together for lower prices as opposed to against each other, i.e. profiteering.

I am thinking the same thing. (Btw first post here lol.)

[jabar]

I'm not sure what you mean, but I used the term "complainers" to reflect the language in damorgue's post. Could you clarify what you meant by the identity of commentators?

Identity in the sense of differentiating between potential buyers taking exception to the price and others whose purpose is to comment on (bad) prices in general. I wouldn't consider lower sales revenue because one had to lower price to match buyers' perspective as a loss.

[jeroplane]

I'm not sure what you mean, but I used the term "complainers" to reflect the language in damorgue's post. Could you clarify what you meant by the identity of commentators?

Identity in the sense of differentiating between potential buyers taking exception to the price and others whose purpose is to comment on (bad) prices in general. I wouldn't consider lower sales revenue because one had to lower price to match buyers' perspective as a loss.

I do not think they should be differentiated at all. In most cases, only the commenter themselves will know if they are a potential buyer or not.

But I think we are on the same page here, just a little lost in translation. I see comments regarding price from anyone (prospective buyers or otherwise) as a good thing for the market, because it will inevitably result in lower prices.

[jabar]

I do not think they should be differentiated at all. In most cases, only the commenter themselves will know if they are a potential buyer or not.

But I think we are on the same page here, just a little lost in translation. I see comments regarding price from anyone (prospective buyers or otherwise) as a good thing for the market, because it will inevitably result in lower prices.

Not necessarily lower prices (that is still up to the seller), but community morale would be much stronger as buyers will be confident in the prices paid, and sellers confident that the sale happened and with acceptable terms.

[litster]

It's a conspiracy, an attempt to win a clickclack wingnut this year in the dta *ping* award category, for getting "banned" (trololo) at gh. A grave misunderstanding, because in this category you will get a litster smiley key instead. Or the turd key. It hasn't been decided yet.

Spoiler:

Oh boy! You really made me laughed out loud there, webwit!

Actually, samwisekoi PM'ed me if I would hand draw a bunch of my smiley caps for sale for fundraising for GH. I respectfully declined. My smiley caps must stay true to its rareness. There are only 2 yellow smiley in the world so far!

[mintberryminuscrunch]

.. . There are only 2 yellow smiley in the world so far!
...

2? So far? Profiteer!

[dirge]

So you're only allowed to offend people you can beat up?

no mate, what that over educated idiot is saying that he doesn't understand when people are giving him fair warning.

If you say something that offends me, I'm telling you that if you say that again. Your on my fucking terms. It's a verbal contract, far better than no warning at all. Like a 2am kebab house.

over educated?
Would you be saying that shit to a world class heavy weight boxer, if he offended you? Don't think so 'mate'...

You're straying towards the personal side there, not sure how were getting there or why.
But you don't really know enough about me to make that call. First choice with confrontation is always to use words rather than actions. That said if your boxer said anything about my daughter, going in knowing I'd get beaten would be far less painful than walking away.

I'm from the north east 'mate' is just something we say, sure you're aware of that.

[dirge]

no mate, what that over educated idiot is saying that he doesn't understand when people are giving him fair warning.

If you say something that offends me, I'm telling you that if you say that again. Your on my fucking terms. It's a verbal contract, far better than no warning at all. Like a 2am kebab house.

I think Fry's comment about taking offense was something like "I don't think you are right (about religous things (that seems to be the subject in that podium discussion, me thinks))". People do, in fact, take offense to that.

So if I tell you: "Meh, I don't think that shitty Buckling Spring is better than Topre", you'd react the same way (be on your fucking terms and whatnot)?
I doubt that from what I read from you so far. And neither does any normal human being.

But some people (cactux (hate to point him out, but he's a great example)) react like that. They take offense to 'threadcrap'.
And there goes my approach. The same as Fry's. So fucking what [you have taken offense]?


I'm not talking about verbally shitfacing you and your company in a bar when I'm drunk.

Sure but is it okay not to care entirly like fry suggests? It's easy to say it but can be difficult to do given the right circumstances. My example was towards the extreme end.
But how can you progress as a person with that attitude? Whether you care or not on an emotional level isn't what I mean, but looking at how a situation came about and how you handled it and giving some self reflection can help improve yourself. And it may be a factor with these overly aggressive forum posters. They don't seem to be able to see themselves in the wrong. It's a difficult thing to do I'll grant you, but more rewarding than the alternative.
Better to understand you're wrong than remain ignorant.

[SmallFry]

Are you guys talking about me?

[dirge]

Can't say for the other's but I'm not. Well not intentionally anyway.

[Acanthophis]

Sure but is it okay not to care entirly like fry suggests? It's easy to say it but can be difficult to do given the right circumstances. My example was towards the extreme end.
But how can you progress as a person with that attitude? Whether you care or not on an emotional level isn't what I mean, but looking at how a situation came about and how you handled it and giving some self reflection can help improve yourself. And it may be a factor with these overly aggressive forum posters. They don't seem to be able to see themselves in the wrong. It's a difficult thing to do I'll grant you, but more rewarding than the alternative.
Better to understand you're wrong than remain ignorant.

Well, Fry's statement is heavily (at least I like to think so) context based. So, taking his quote might not have been the best idea, I admit.
I totally get, what you mean. I personally hate it to be wrong, but I managed over time to feel less affected by it. I think this change comes with time, when you, as a person, mature.
(to be honest, I already wrote like 10 sentences, deleting it, rephrasing it, deleting it...now I don't know what the fuck I want to say )

People on GH should grow up, that's all. (and before some butthurt quotes this and whines: Yes, it's a generalisation and doesn't apply to all of you...)

[dirge]

I remember Fry using that same quote on QI, so it does seem to be something he wants to get across to people. Thing is its a bit open ended and open to interpretation. Much like writing and deleting sentences (which I do allll the time) its important to get the message across clearly and efficiently. I have trouble a lot of the time and god knows how our members here where English isn't their first language find it.

I don't like being wrong either, but the times when you are, and its over a big deal. Its like the other person is hold up a mirror and you can see clear as day what a complete cunt you can be. It can be depressing sure but its an opportunity to break the cycle.

'Some' people on GH should grow up sure, but we can't keep drawing a line between the two forums. We've got more we agree on than we disagree. (realize this forum was pretty much created on a disagreement but you know what I mean..)

[Acanthophis]

I have trouble a lot of the time and god knows how our members here where English isn't their first language find it.

Believe me, I do have those 'blackouts' also in German
But then again, I partially grew up with English, so I don't know^^
When I try to imagine having this conversation in Spanish....oh, fuck me

So, our conversation pretty much ended. Who throws the next stone?



Oh, btw, I just got SmallFry's joke
(I didn't sleep well)

[baldgye]

You're straying towards the personal side there, not sure how were getting there or why.
But you don't really know enough about me to make that call. First choice with confrontation is always to use words rather than actions. That said if your boxer said anything about my daughter, going in knowing I'd get beaten would be far less painful than walking away.

I'm from the north east 'mate' is just something we say, sure you're aware of that.

...So being offended really is some great crime to you? And yeah it's coming through that your from the North lol

[dirge]

...So being offended really is some great crime to you? And yeah it's coming through that your from the North lol

Depends on what it is really doesn't it. My examples were towards the extreme end sure, but just to point out the flaw in what Fry was saying. If you don't care less about how your actions effect others you could end up paying for them one way or another. Then who's whining?

I've let big stuff go in my time and I've flipped out over minor stuff. The thing is we really can't draw paralleled between life and internet the behaviors are totally divorced.

In both however the best option is 'normally' not to react. I say normally because sometimes you can allow yourself a little fun lol.

[baldgye]

I can agree with that for the most part, but I don't think he was trying to defend people verbally abusing your children etc... though if someone talked shit about my own dauter I'd probally just laugh it off...

...but we might be a little off topic now lol